@amigadave

Quote:

This comment is not aimed only at you, but your statement above that these kinds of attacks, or bad treatment are just "one instance"

MobbyG was upset that two people told him they thought he did something in poor taste that was unkind, and we were pretty nice about it. The person he discussed is a regular target in our community. His being mocked is as old and tired as the hills. MobbyG it seems felt after the show ok enough about it to advertise that segment even as a highlight and to leave it in the show.

Thats not about Amiga, the show itself is hardly about Amiga as it is. MobbyG was not vilified. If I had my way the news item would have simply been deleted and he would have been PM'd why. Since the group of mods did not decide that way two of us mentioned the show content in the thread that we thought was a bit off. If we were still going to be an advertising vehicle for it folks at least have a right to see impressions from some of the viewership. And BTW, I only was part of the viewership because they wasted people's time with a prank that they actually had info about Hyperion "most ambitious project" when they didn't.

If you are ok enough with going there about someone else in the first place on a show you prepare for mass consumption to every Amigan if you can reach them, you should be resilient enough to acknowledge at the least that you were sorry that some people got that impression if you did not mean such. Its a public show on a public medium advertised on a site where the target of that segment is also a member. And we were pretty nice about what we said.

Sorry, but "vilification" did not occur there.

As for your other comments I see where you are coming from. But this easily bruised ego stuff is not helping either. The problem is on both sides of the equation here. DiscreetFX made mention that I am on the villain hitlist at Moo recently as well, like he is. I don't like reading hurtful things about myself either. But should I pull money from all bounties I've donated to? Should I withhold money from others in the future? If I do should I cry about it in public so that others will rally to my defense and say "bad Moo Bunny, evil Moo Bunny, you ####s!"

Or should I keep a stiff upper lip, continue to try to do what I think is right, even if some people disagree and give to the community money in bounties since it has great folks like jahc, TheDaddy, Jens, etc, etc. What does anyone gain by hurting benefits for good folks all in some attempt to teach the bad folks who are not going to listen anyway. If anything history teaches us this victory they hand to Moo Bunny will only make them more smug and more emboldened to insult.

Lets also bear in mind that DiscreetFX wanted to buy the Amiga brand, they have wanted to be a leader in the community. Does a leader say " I was going to put the $2000 that DiscreetFX donated into other Amiga bounties. But after the negativity and inquisitions I'll wait and see."? Or does he say "we aren't going to let these guys win, you'll be seeing our $2000 going to other Amiga bounty efforts"? I know which of those two I'd respect.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-Nov-2009 at 09:09 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-Nov-2009 at 09:07 PM.

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Amiga 1200

@MobbyG
fairlanefastback wrote: Quote:

MobbyG was upset that two people told him they thought he did something in poor taste that was unkind

I
I seem to have completely missed this bit of the thread, so I hope you take my previous reply in that context. (I "only" thought that you were upset at how DFX was treated by some people.)


Although I still feel this is a bit of a "storm in a teacup" (beyond Amizilla being cancelled), with a few people (and their comments) being given far more importance than they deserve. I hope that you change your mind eventually, because I still feel there is some hope for AW.net yet.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ fairlanefastback
Quote:

It seems to not have been common knowledge. I've done some searches and can not find what you mention (so far at least). number6 quotes Bill from April 2007 though here. Bill simply says the money is "safe and sound" and is the project's "sponsor". Its certainly does not hint at anyone but him holding the money. I'd be curious to read any link you can provide. But so far it does not seem that was widely known at all.

Yeah I can't find it either- there's been many more forums on here discussing AmiZilla, but they don't seem to show up in search- I suppose search only works on Topic names (or it could have been on Amiga.org)?
Oh, well, will have to be left under unsubstantiated claims.


-Ants
AmiZilla Team Coordinator

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- Ants

@Ants

Advanced search for forums is here.

Its not just topic names, no.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 25-Nov-2009 at 04:12 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Quote:

Maybe if the Timberwolf developers had indicated that they were going to meet the conditions of the AmiZilla contest the "Netscape Executive" would have not pulled out his money and the contest would not have been canceled at all!

I don't believe that! Amigabounty tried to get in touch with the "Netscape Exec." so the timberwolf and Amizilla bounty could be discussed. But getting in touch with an anonymous person that doesn't respond to emails (sent via DiscreetFX) is hard.

IMHO an anonymous person deciding about the bounties after reading Moobunny shouldn't have been in control of the bounty and I have never read anywhere that he was, apart from the emails I got from DiscreetFX that explained it.

DiscreetFX have been VERY helpful in emailing me donor information on the forwarded donations and I personally (Sputnik experience) know how big a job it is to return peoples money or transfer it to other projects. He does a very good job there!

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@fairlanefastback,

Why would Troels need to contact the "Netscape Exec"? The contest rules were black and white. You meet the requirements of the contest, you get the money. Did Troels think he was going to bend the rules of the contest by conversing with the "Netscape Exec."?

Wether I or anyone else agrees with the reasons that the contest was canceled is irrelevant as none of us had any control over such actions. All the crying about it not being right or fair and all the suggestions about what should have been done instead is useless waste of bandwidth, IMHO.

A large part of my long post was that such whining should be done privately and directly, instead of in public forums. Picking apart every post that people make in public is in my opinion also a waste of bandwidth and my time to read through such in hopes to find useful content in the forums. If you(the collective you, as in all members here) have a problem with someone then why not deal directly with that person in private. Only when you feel the need to warn the community at large about a particular person's actions should it be aired out in a public forum. I know that this concept will be completely foreign to many people here, but there are many people that read forum posts to gain information and knowledge about Amiga related issues, not what someone should have done, or could have done, or to discuss endlessly actions that are out of the poster's control.

I have no doubt that MobbyG's reasons for leaving here are much more than that one incident. As I tried to point out in my other message, the feeling I get around here is much too often one of hostility and conflict, instead of cooperation and constructive criticism, or help. I know that this is prevalent on many other sites all over the Internet and many people will just tell me to "get over it", or "get used to it, cause it ain't going to change", but it wasn't always that way and I can remember the early days of the Internet when most people were much more polite and hospitable to their fellow enthusiasts, no matter what the group was interested in.

I know my request for a change will likely fall on deaf ears, or if any improvement is made, it will likely be temporary, but that does not stop me from wanting things to improve. Amiga is a big part of my life, but there have been times over the last 18 months that have really made me sit back and wonder why I would ever want to be included in any group that regularly attacks it's own so often. So please understand that I am writing about generalities here and not just this one incident that you keep defending yourself from. I am sure you are quite innocent and justified in all your actions, yet the hostile feeling remains and the straw, no matter how thin appears to have been thick enough to be the last one which pushed one member here over the edge.

I am active every week trying to INCREASE our community in some way. We can't afford to lose anyone, or scare off any potential users. This community of AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS users is fragile and could disappear very easily at any time. I think it is a miracle that we have lasted this long, but I really fear that if we do not do something to turn things around very soon, we will reach a point where no matter how hard we few remaining try, we will not be able to sustain any interest from any developers in a short span of months. I am not saying that we have lost MobbyG, just because he says that he will no longer visit, or post messages here, but the same reasons that may be responsible for him leaving, could scare away more, or prevent potential new members from joining us.

So, call me stupid, naive, unrealistic, sentimental fool, but this is how I feel and I sincerely think we need to change our ways (myself included, as I certainly have not been a Saint in the past).

Last edited by amigadave on 25-Nov-2009 at 07:29 AM.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@Troels,

Believe what ever you want, but I never read that the Netscape Exec was in control of the contest either. He just wanted his money back for the reasons listed in the announcement and DiscreetFX decided to cancel the contest for the reasons they listed in the same announcement and subsequent messages afterward.

All this whining and complaining after the fact is a waste of time and bandwidth. DiscreetFX has gone out of their way to return, or redirect the donations, which is a lot more than some might have done in the same situation.

If the team developing Timberwolf wanted to comply with the rules of the AmiZilla contest, they should have announced it as soon as they started work on their project, PUBLICLY! Not is some private email to one of the persons who donated sent through the organization that set up the contest. I could be like some others and try to pick apart the reasoning for sending a private email to the "Netscape Exec", but I am not going to waste my time.

As I wrote before, the contest had rules, the rules were easy to find and read, I am sort of angry that the Timberwolf developers did not want to comply (or just did not express it to DiscreetFX, or the public) with those rules, which were set up in a way to benefit ALL of our tiny community, but for what ever reasons, they did not comply with the rules and the reasons for the cancellation of the contest, at least in my opinion seem valid. Without the Timberwolf meeting the rules of the AmiZilla contest, there was no other real progress from anyone else and the contest had dragged on for too long with no visible sight of it ending successfully in the near future. The withdrawal of the largest single donor's funds may have triggered the cancellation of the contest, but as explained by DiscreetFX, it was not the only reason for such cancellation.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave Quote:

should be done privately and directly, instead of in public forums. .... Only when you feel the need to warn the community at large about a particular person's actions should it be aired out in a public forum.

Not sure if your comments cover my posts in general (I hope not), but I always have trouble deciding if something should be private or public, as I have been unable to come up with any good "rules of thumb" to guide which should be which, so I decided on making everything public unless I could think of a good reason to take it private. I also hoped to learn by trial & error what should best be made private, but not sure I have progressed much in that regard...

But yes, some people don't know when to drop it, or how to be nice, and they do far more harm to their "cause" (and our forum) than if they were to take a more subtle approach.

Quote:

the feeling I get around here is much too often one of hostility and conflict, instead of cooperation and constructive criticism

I would love that to change, but there are a few "bad apples" that the moderators mostly seem to have decided to let them do as they wish, unfortunately. So the best we can do is avoid threads that they decided to heavily participate in. Although sometimes it is unavoidable to respond to them, as long as one remembers to avoid getting dragging into a protracted debate (usually best to exit when you feel you are repeating yourself).

Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Nov-2009 at 10:04 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 25-Nov-2009 at 10:03 AM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@amigadave, MobbyG & others:
I direct you to the following thread, which I feel could help improve the situation on AW.net:
Fixing AW.net's hostility problem: Improving the TOS.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@amigadave Quote:

I am sort of angry that the Timberwolf developers did not want to comply (or just did not express it to DiscreetFX, or the public) with those rules, which were set up in a way to benefit ALL of our tiny community, but for what ever reasons, they did not comply with the rules

I have NO idea why you are blaming Timberwolf to Amizilla's cancellation, it's just a bizarre idea.

Saying that Timberwolf "did not want to comply ... with those rules" sounds like that they broke some rules, which is ridiculous. Amizilla was set-up to encourage a Firefox port. If someone chooses to port Firefox without wanting all the hassle required by the Amizilla bounty rules, then I really don't see the problem.

Perhaps Timberwolf might have been modified to meet Amizilla's requirements later, but we will never know because this mystery Netscape Exec decided to cancel the whole thing because of some stupid comments on Moo Bunny of all places.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Post cancelled

Last edited by OldAmigan on 25-Nov-2009 at 11:32 AM.

_________________
Fred Booth
========================================
A500, A600, A1200 c/w Mediator and 030
AmigaOne and OS4.1
Mac LCII, G4 Powermac running OSX + Amigakit and MorphOS 3.0
Dell Mini 10 Netbook running IcAros and AmigaForever+Amikit+AmigaSys
2006 Macb

I have asked DiscreetFX to transfer my money to the AROS Gallium3d Bounty and they have done that immediately.

Thank you DiscreetFX !

@AmigaDave
Quote:

Believe what ever you want, but I never read that the Netscape Exec was in control of the contest either.

Contrary to what YOU might believe I got the facts right. Facts is that DiscreetFX did not tell the donors of the change and that was what I complained about. I discussed it in an email and he admitted it was a fault which is of course all he can do now.

So whether you read it or not, the Netscape exec. was in charge and I have DiscreetFX' word for that.

Quote:

As I wrote before, the contest had rules, the rules were easy to find and read

Nice, please show me the ORIGINAL rules. The rules that was there when 90% of people made their donations!
IIRC the Amizilla bounty was turned into this 25% rule only some years ago.

I would have liked to see the rules changed once again for the benefit of all Amiga like systems. Is that clear enough?

Last edited by Troels on 29-Nov-2009 at 11:25 AM.
Last edited by Troels on 25-Nov-2009 at 09:42 PM.
Last edited by Troels on 25-Nov-2009 at 09:35 PM.

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And btw. the Friedens is doing great things for the AmigaOS4 community, complying or not complying with the Amizilla rules is their choice... well it would have been if the bounty wasn't taken down.

DiscreetFX has also been doing a LOT of great stuff for our community and has always been very nice to me. My criticism is only directed at the fact that he should have kept people updated on the "ownership" of the bounty and rest of my critic is directed at the anonymous guy on moobunny;)

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Quote:

@Arko Just in interest: how you spend money to AROS OWb, if that bounty already closed times ago ? (i am in interest to spend some dollars to AROS-OWB too).

I accidently put the money on the closed OWB bounty, now It is on the Gallium3D bounty.

Gallium3D based Software/Hardware 3D
$22,76 1 $22,76
Tell Us About You! Thanks!
Summe Warenwert: $22,76
Betrag: $22,76 USD

Last edited by Arko on 26-Nov-2009 at 01:10 PM.

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AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@ChrisH,

I never blamed the Timberwolf developers for the cancellation of the Amizilla contest. I am ####ed that the Timberwolf developers, are developing only for AmigaOS4.x and not all three or four of the most popular Amiga and Amiga-Like OSes. But that is their choice and to tell the truth, ####ed was too strong a word and I should not have used it. Let's just say I am disappointed when any new software is developed for one of the remaining OS choices that Amiga users generally want to use and it is not developed for the others, nor is the source code made available so others could attempt to compile it for the other choices of OSes.

I understand their reasons and can live with their choice, but I don't have to like it.

I don't wish to get back into this discussion, but wanted to clear up this comment that assumed I was saying one thing, when it was not accurate.

I think you can understand that users of any OS that has a limited amount of software available would want to have more software choices to run on the OS they choose to use.

This accusation that I am blaming the Timberwolf developers for the cancellation of the Amizilla contest is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about when words are twisted, or just outright misquoted to make someone look bad and cause further hostility, or in other words "Fear, Uncertainty and ......... never mind.

I don't think I need to visit Amigaworld.net any longer. The few members here that want to perpetuate hostility instead of productivity have won and can have what is left of this place.

Goodbye.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .