Quote:

Poster: turkamigaman I want to know this ( I don't have A1XE yet but hope in future ) Are all of the boards needs this fixing , or only the pre models

I have looked into what is available for me in case I ever get enough money to buy a new amiga and here's what is discovered:

these X...whatever they are called.... were beta boards. they are no longer being made because they were the early versions.

unless someone sells you their old board, you can't get one.

as the problems were discovered, new versions of the uA1's were developed until one that is NOW being sold is being made for sale.

and THAT is what you can get. now. right now.

GURU very nicely is offering a service to european customers to make the simple fix. (well, simple if you know how to do that kind of magic).

This fix has been known for at least 6 weeks to 2 months that I can recall (from my local dealers).

so, what's the problem?
why the conspiracy theories?

I happen to have what may very well be one of the first Pre-April Pegasus boards. It has very early Firmware. It has things it can't do.
That may be annoying, but I also figure I have a "historic" board.

It's fun to play with, it can do some things. and what the heck, it's better than nothing.
Do you hear ME complaining???

Last edited by cecilia on 29-Jan-2005 at 06:24 PM.

_________________
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That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

@GuruMeditation,

I soon as I get a new G4 cpu module, I am likely to send the board for fixes... Once I checked what works, and what doesn't for my daily use.

At least that's good news that a dealer "stepped in" to offer this fix !

Thanks.

Jerry

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AOS4 Final Update / AmiZilla 0.1 Alpha

@GregS
Quote:

OK it is everybody's right to have a gripe, but wouod it not be wiser to wait until OS4 comes out.

Greg- bear in mind, not all problems can be fixed by software, so there's isn't much point on waiting for OS4 final. They may be able to workaround some of the problems, like seriously slowing down network traffic, or running hard drives in slower modes, but that is not a fix, that is a hardware problem that should be covered under warrantee, period.

Look at it this way- you go and buy a 9 in 1 media reader. Your specific use for it is to ready Sony Memory Stick and Memory Stick Pro media, as you only have Sony hardware. When your new purchase arrives, you find that the SD, CF and other media works, but no Memory Sticks can be read. A 'software fix' is released for your specific OS, that allows Memory Stick media to be read at half-speed, but there is no way to ever read your larger Pro media.

So...what good is the unit to you at that point? Does the manufacturer 'owe you' what you paid for with your money? I'd say so, as what you now have is NOT the product you paid for. Software fixes are generally workarounds- it may work, but is usually at reduced efficiency or may still have issues- that is not the same as the manufacturer making things right.

If you still believe EyeTech should do nothing, look at the auto industry- when a dealer repairs a customer's car for a recall or a service bulletin item, those repair costs are paid directly from the manufacturer, NOT the customer. Then there's the whole part about auto manufacturers being required to at least _attempt_ to notify customers about problems that require a recall or service visit....

If Eyetech had any involvement in this, they sure as Hell should not be invalidating the customer's warrantee...nor do I expect that is actually legal to do so if someone were to pursue it. Perhaps they hope for the SE and XEs to quietly 'go away,' as it does appear the uA1s are without problems....and that may happen over time, but I would put forth there is something still ot be said for customer loyalty and customer satisfaction- Hyperion, whether they 'endorse' the Friedens posts to SW.net or not, get quite a bit of goodwill as a result of their postings and communications, whether everyone wishes AOS4 was done by now or not. We may not get every bit of info we'd like, which is realistic...but there is SOMETHING, some communication. That alone makes Hyperion 'worthy' of respect and loyalty...they do try to answer problems people are having with AOS4, even with it being a pre-release. I would suggest Eyetech learns something from them, if they plan on gaining many new customers. A market as small as the Amiga currently is NEEDS loyalty, and EyeTech isn't doing much to gain that.

As Guru is 'only' a dealer with respect to AmigaOnes, I think they are doing an excellent job and should be commended- after all, if the manufacturer refuses to do what they should (and _may_ be required to do under law), it's not realistic to expect their dealers to cover the repair costs out of their own pockets....so it's an even better deal for those of you who have purchased through Guru, as it's unlikely they are being re-imbursed for their time and expense of the repairs.

Last edited by wegster on 29-Jan-2005 at 11:08 PM.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@GregS
Quote:

Actually it matters very very much. Warranty issues only exist insofar as the item is fit gfor use -- a beta-board is fit for use as a beta-board, in otherwords so long as software can be run on it for testing purposes (of bothg the board design and the OS) then it is fit for use. Warrenty in the case is in regard to particular faults in particular boards -- cracks, bad workmanship, or other damage. The design only has to correspond to the spec blueprint. Basically if you are buying a beta board you are buying from the bllueprint.

NO. The A1Xe was advertised as computer with DMA and usb.
That can be supposed to work. It doesn't matter if it is explicitly written in a contract!
For the sound chip it is more difficult: as later advertised A1 didn't have the soudchip mentioned.

If you buy a car your contract doesn't tell you that the wipers are used to clean your front(back)window or that they are just there as gimmick! One just supposes they do what they are intended to.

The same goes for DMA and USB: if they arementioned they are supposed to work.

According to EU law it is up to the dealer where one bought the A1, to solve the problems: repair, exchange or money back. The dealer himself is protected by the same laws, and can ask the problems to be solved by the company he got the product!

Also the phrase "that warranty voids" because of the repair service, is illegal too: in EU countries every consumer has the right that the product he bought works as advertised, this includes FREE repair, exchange or money back guaranty, without the warranty to void!
Bigger problems (like the one on the A1XE) must be declared 6 months afer you bought your product. After that time the consumer must prove that the product has problems: but that isn't difficult in this case a nobody changed the hardware of his A1.
But you do always have a warranty of 2 years for any product you buy!

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hmm, I'm still waiting for someone to fix our ECS KS75A mobo.

@DrBombcrater

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I know people get sick of hearing about this, and constant negative posts are no fun at all. But screaming, yelling and complaining seems to be the one very slim hope of getting a reaction out of Eyetech, even if it's just an admission that the boards are borked and they don't know how to fix them.

I understand. For SE owners with no possible fix in sight you just hope for some reaction. For others it might seem whining but who cares? Right? One thing in Amiga land out here is that you can't "whine" too much because then you are one of "those". But my fellow buddies out there if I have something that does not work I complain about it no matter what other people think about it. Of couse all in the limits of normal language.

SE owners are the people that made it happen so if you leave them in the cold by not talking your not doing a good thing.

Quote:

4 PCI Slots : One of them is broken, and two are filled with cards to 'fix' problems. That leaves just 1/4 of the expansion space promoted in Eyetech's ads.

A soundcard, SIL card, USB card......

Well my whining sound problem got fixed with the latest OS4 (second one) update which is really amazing. Kudos to Hyperion!

Coder

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@wegster

Quote:

That alone makes Hyperion 'worthy' of respect and loyalty...they do try to answer problems people are having with AOS4, even with it being a pre-release.

100% true. With my sound prob too. They comment on it here and by personal mail to help getting it fixed. And that's all we ask for. Some communication to make us feel we are taken serious.

Coder

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@Wegster
Quote:

Greg- bear in mind, not all problems can be fixed by software, so there's isn't much point on waiting for OS4 final. They may be able to workaround some of the problems, like seriously slowing down network traffic, or running hard drives in slower modes, but that is not a fix, that is a hardware problem that should be covered under warrantee, period.

Perfectly right, at the moment GuruMeditation is offering a HW fix for known HW problems. However, problems people are experiencing are not necessarily reduced to these, there may be other HW issues combined with OS issues. what we bought was an earlybird system, in that sense we stand in line with the overall development phase.

If I were Eyetech, iI'd wait, wait untill all the issues are known and new ones discovered, set up a system to fix the problems without voiding warrenty.

Meanwhile those that cannot wait have this excellent service to fix these known and defined HW bugs. There is a risk (however, small) that the transport, a mishap, or that a particular boardf had some underlying problems -- Guru mediation cannot naturally be liable and so you take this small risk to repair now rather than wait.

So yes if you cannpot wait go with this offer, if you find the problems do not send you insane -- then my suggfestion is wait a little longer.

I do not beleiev eyetech is under as much obligation as many think, I beleive they will do so because it makes business sense.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@mbilla

Law is a funny thing and I do not have the expertise to give definite answers, but please beleiev me I known enough about consumer rights to see a major flaw in all this (I cannot imagine the EU is different in this).

1) I cannot speak for Eyetetch and do not know ntheir plans, my personal belief is that it is so much in their interests to provide fixes they will inevitable do so -- all going well. So that side of the debate is purely one of time.

2) Guru Meditation is making a great offer for people cannot wait any longer -- more Kudos to them, they warn and it would be silly not to warn that their work will void warranty on parts. It should be remembered that for many the warrantyt if not yet expired soon will be.

3)It is really annoying that Eyetech has said nothing officially about fixes, but they did make official statements about the known flaws here to A1 owners -- a breach of confidence did us no good whatsoever, as Alan Redhouse more or less stated he could no longer "trust" that forum and will probably not make the effort again. I have been bleating about the problem created in the community by trolls andlitagtion (not separate issues alas)for well over a year now, this is just one more example of the damage that has been done.

4) Manufacturers warrently normally voids all across the world iof unauthorisied repairs are made and a problem persists (or another one occurs). The conditions for voiding warrenty has to be reasonable -- you might have in mind some unreasonable conditions -- very few in this world gives blanket warrenty without expecting an insurance premium.

5)Because the market who purcahsed these early boards were knowningly purchasing a good in develop;ment we all took a risk. The spec sheet only could state the design features, but an experimental board design , beat-board, board designed for a yet to be finished OS, ehatever it is called, is what it is -- not a finished product.

In my opinion that is how things stand. If p[eople think their warrenties cover the sort of HW problems sofar known , well good luck. If youy think you have been misled jn to buying a faulty board and can dismiss the board being offered in the limited way it was -- againgood luck.

If you are out of warrenty, then take up GuruMeditations fine offer, or wait a bit longer to see what if anything Eyetech provides -- would you be going full scale to sell the consumer boards with the officially released OS4 and have people complaining about earlier boards not working properly -- I won't and I strongly suggest Eyetech won't.

The known fixes when it all boils down to it are not all that dramatic (well beyond me, but most things like that are). The Micro-A1-C does not have any of them, Eyetech saw to that, would not fixes for the old boards come after that (ie in the period we are now in) and before everything had been changed and checked for the new models would you rush in and offer fixes -- these things have to organisied it takes time.

A little patience -- if Eyetech miserably fails after the OS4 reslease, well we should nail their hides to the gate posts, but before that everything is just premature.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

Actually yes, Eyetech bashing is a side issue, if related, and if nothing else its in two major bloody threads on this board in the forum ( in fact the two longest threads on aw.net ) already.

Are Eyetech the manufacturers of the board? I thought everyone was at pains to point out it was designed by Mai and manufactured ( under contract ) in the far east with just Eyetech as the distributer. Now the boards turn out to have flaws in them Eyetech is suddenly the manufacturer.

Anyone who is a direct customer of Eyetech who wants to join a draft of a formal letter to them please email me ( using the email link on aw.net ) with your full name, address and board number.

If we dont hear anything from Eyetech by Feb 6th its time to start sending correspondance. If you ARE NOT a direct Eyetech customer, Im not interested in hearing from you, you need to deal with your own reseller. If you are not an AmigaONE XE or SE owner anyway, its none of your business so piss off.

Im often accused of using flowery language where a few short sentences will do the trick, I hope that was direct enough for everyone involved.

Dave.

@DaveP

I'm happy to add my name to a letter to Eyetech, but is it necessary to have a list of names, addresses and serial no's? I'm just wondering if it's wise for anybody but Eyetech to have all that info together?

@GregS

Quote:

what we bought was an earlybird system

I have posted a few times now with extracts from actual advertisements placed by Eyetech which make it quite clear that 'Earlybird' meant only that OS4 was not ready, and the purchaser would have to use Linux for a short while. Eyetech would not be able to provide any Linux support. There was no suggestion (implicit or explicit) that there were, or likely to be hardware defects. Eyetech themselves have not, to my knowledge, made a statement that Earlybird purchasers did so in the knowledge that there may be hardware problems.
Until somebody can post a statement from Eyetech showing that the Earlybird boards were sold as 'beta' boards with possible defects, I don't think end-users should make this claim.

I think its necessary to have more than just one name and only one effort to communicate with Eyetech. In order for there to be more than just one name Eyetech needs to have some way of verifying the information to ensure that it is dealing solely with its customers. Serial number and address seemed like a good way to do it.

@DaveP

Quote:

Im not interested in hearing from you

You don't return my phonecalls, respond to my letters or my e-mails. Is it something I said? Maybe everything was going to fast?



Coder

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@Coder

Quote:

You don't return my phonecalls, respond to my letters or my e-mails. Is it something I said? Maybe everything was going to fast?

It is that bucket of yours. It's very intimidating .

@Bodie

Quote:

It is that bucket of yours. It's very intimidating

I knew it. Thanks for the tip!

Coder

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I also think Eyetech should step in now, it doesn't seem fair to let the dealers take all the blame for this.

The Amiga market is special but that doesn't mean that laws to protect the consumers does not exist here.

It is not legal (in Denmark and i suspect EU) to say a repair being done in your warranty period voids your warranty. In Denmark you could get fined for doing business like that.

The consumer will still have the original warranty (or whats left of it) but will also be able to complain about the repaired parts for 5 years! Warranty on repaired parts is extended.

Exchange of faulty products gives you the full 24 month warranty from the time of exchange, not from the original purchase date.

Anyway, basically it all comes down to whether people bought a beta product where faults could be expected.
But with all the documentation floating around the net Eyetech wouldn't stand a chance against the consumers. They advertised it with all the bells and whistles and you can't expect people to follow news/threads on their website, ANN or here closely to find out what state it was actually released in.

Besides, the dealers that people would have to complain to did not all say anything about beta boards, earlybird and so on and in other places it was hinted that it was only OS4 that was a beta product.

----------

Having said that I would like to see the dealers continue in the Amiga market and I would like to see Eyetech deliver new models for us to buy(with less faults!).

And there is the problem, had this been a PC or Mac I would have complained until I got a new working one (or the old one repaired) but if every A1 purchaser does so in the Amiga market we will probably loose both Eyetech and a couple of dealers and what will we have left then?

Eyetech needs to think of a soloution that is fair to all parts and not sending anyone out of business and they need to do so __ now!! __

_________________

Quote:

I'm still waiting for someone to fix our ECS KS75A mobo.

"ECS/PC Chips/Other crap" is the worst brand of PC motherboard in the world, you get what you pay for (in the case of ECS/PC Chips - crap)

/rant

(Had a lot of bad experiences fixing friend's PCs that use those awful boards)

Regards.

Last edited by rossv on 30-Jan-2005 at 04:16 PM.

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The standard disclaimer applies

I'd just like to add - that just as with GGS Data and Vesalia I have also been in touch with Eyetech about the repair.
Once a solution is available I will offer it to my customers.

Regards
AmigaOne.biz / itselect.dk

@Troels
That is a simplification of consumer rights in DK - but be aware that this will be investigated further before something will be offered.

Last edited by Juzz on 30-Jan-2005 at 09:20 PM.

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AmigaOne Owner since 2002.
The first person to get a Linux installer running on the AmigaOne :-

Quote:

I think its necessary to have more than just one name and only one effort to communicate with Eyetech.

Thanks DaveP. I'll send you my details and I hope all Eyetech customers who want a resolutionof the problems will join in.