Good or bad, at least I hope it gives the mods somewhere to put the 'crap'
(edit: and by crap I mean the baiting, trolling and stuff, not any particular OS)

Thanks,
/shoe

Last edited by shoe on 12-Jan-2006 at 05:20 PM.

Just some feedback: I find the change is a good thing.

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Quote:

(edit: and by crap I mean the baiting, trolling and stuff, not any particular OS)

So why should the crap be put in the "Alt" section?

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

I would like to suggest that at user level we could choose which forums are available at front page..

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

I have just a few things to say.

This is the classical solution to a problem that didn't exist in the first place.

No one but a little number of vocal exstremists, among which there is at least one moderator, complained about the alleged problem, and eventually it's been decided to create what looks very much like some sort of lager (someone mentioned Siberia...) where to put the undesired (as the aforementioned moderator once named them on this very same site).

Why do I say that? The reason is very simple, indeed: there already is a place where to discuss things not directly related to AmigaOS4 and the AmigaONE, but still related to the IT world: the "General computing and technology" section.

Such section is not only perfectly allowed to hold discussions about the "Alternatives", but it's also a section which is shown on the front page, unlike the one dedicated to the "Alternatives".

This sole fact should dispel any doubts about the real reasons behind the creation of that section. Want to prove me wrong? Easy: make that section show on the front page, just like any discussion regarding windows, the mac, the playstation, the gamecube and whatever else can be deemed "technological" would.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@shoe
Quote:

Good or bad, at least I hope it gives the mods somewhere to put the 'crap'. (edit: and by crap I mean the baiting, trolling and stuff, not any particular OS)

It seems as if some users completely misunderstood what this forum rearrangement is about.
It is not a means to put "the crap somewhere" and I don't see how it directly relates to "baiting, trolling and stuff".
Trolling is something the TOS deals with, it is something that is NEVER tolerated, regardless of how you arrange the forums.

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This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

Quote:

Quote: Quote: (edit: and by crap I mean the baiting, trolling and stuff, not any particular OS) So why should the crap be put in the "Alt" section?

[/quote]

It shouldn't. By the definition given (above), it will be dealt with according to the TOS, wherever it appears. Things should not be moving to some other forum if people simply decide they don't like the content.

If the entire thread content is truly against the TOS of the site, there is already a 'special place' for those- the Trash, not 'some other forum.'

This also does not mean that every thread that (*gasp*) may mention AROS or MOS is automatically moved there, either. It simply depends on the context. There will obviously be some confusion at times as to 'appropriateness' for a given forum and/or thread, as threads generally wander where they do...but bringing up either into a discussion that warrants or even asks for it certainly doesn't mean a thread will immediately be moved from another forum.

edit - typing sucks, unclosed tags..

Last edited by wegster on 12-Jan-2006 at 07:04 PM.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

Quote:

I would like to suggest that at user level we could choose which forums are available at front page..

Yes, that has been discussed, and may be a possibility in the future. In that case, that would likely apply to ALL forums, or a per forum or category basis, before anyone asks.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

I would just like to thank all of the moderators for making this THE best Amiga news/forum site (within my experience anyway). Your hard work is much appreciated guys!

I hope that AmigaWorld goes from strength to strength in 2006, just as certain other sites seem to be going further down hill. And fingers crossed that OS4 get's a lucky break too.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Quote:

I would like to suggest that at user level we could choose which forums are available at front page..

Good idea! I wonder if this would be possible..

I personally am interested in non OS4 topics as well... I will probably spend more time at amiga.org if all non OS4 topics are moved to a section that does not show at frontpage.

Last edited by Tomas on 12-Jan-2006 at 09:14 PM.

Quote:

This is the classical solution to a problem that didn't exist in the first place. No one but a little number of vocal exstremists, among which there is at least one moderator, complained about the alleged problem, and eventually it's been decided to create what looks very much like some sort of lager (someone mentioned Siberia...) where to put the undesired (as the aforementioned moderator once named them on this very same site). Why do I say that? The reason is very simple, indeed: there already is a place where to discuss things not directly related to AmigaOS4 and the AmigaONE, but still related to the IT world: the "General computing and technology" section. Such section is not only perfectly allowed to hold discussions about the "Alternatives", but it's also a section which is shown on the front page, unlike the one dedicated to the "Alternatives". This sole fact should dispel any doubts about the real reasons behind the creation of that section. Want to prove me wrong? Easy: make that section show on the front page, just like any discussion regarding windows, the mac, the playstation, the gamecube and whatever else can be deemed "technological" would.

First off...I can understand how someone can form the view your stating, although to be honest, I'm unsure if you're claiming it as your own, or simply for the sake of argument.

In either case, you are correct, regarding the small number, in that the most vocal people causing problems are in the minority. I stated earlier as 5%, and while the actual percentage isn't relevant, it does very likely say something. There are some that are simply very passionate about their chosen systems, and that's ok, but there are those that simply exist to bait and argue wherever possible for it's own sake, and to target people. That behavior, anywhere, should not be acceptable regardless of the subject matter.

This change however, is not to simply 'sweep the dirt somewhere else.' (ie, move 'everything offensive to some' into a different forum). I hope, over time, it can allow people to still remain 'faithful' to their chosen site, whether they visit MZ daily for mostly MOS news and forums, aros-exec, amiga.org, or AW, but not have to 'worry' about being attacked if they show an interest in sharing something that may relate to all or more than one of the existing Amiga-like and/or official Amiga solutions out there. And each will presumably maintain their own current focuses, whether that is MOS, AROS, Classic AOS, or OS4...preferably with at least some increased recognition there is a 'larger world' out there, and in some cases, more than just one can benefit at the same time.

Quote:

Why do I say that? The reason is very simple, indeed: there already is a place where to discuss things not directly related to AmigaOS4 and the AmigaONE, but still related to the IT world: the "General computing and technology" section.

Yes, this is true, but the current 'Alt Amiga' is for operating system discussion, not for hardware. The Open Peg can certainly be discussed in the General technology section, and I believe it is, right now.

Quote:

This sole fact should dispel any doubts about the real reasons behind the creation of that section. Want to prove me wrong? Easy: make that section show on the front page, just like any discussion regarding windows, the mac, the playstation, the gamecube and whatever else can be deemed "technological" would.

And you sir, are wrong, about 'this sole fact.' Perhaps you misunderstood the focus of 'alt amiga,' (and actually, perhaps some staff did as well, myself included at least once), but that is for alternative Amiga Operating Systems, not the hardware. I did mention at least once it's likely some mistakes will be made along the way, right?

Regarding the 'front page issue.' It would appear that few people use the front page for their normal browsing. Regardless, I won't comment on that one other than saying that it was done both because this is in fact and will remain primarily an OS4 site, but the 'most vocal extremists' certainly came into thought when that decision was made. We're looking into other solutions, hopefully one that will appease everyone, or at least as manny as is realistically possible to do.

As 'it's not done yet,' all I can say is bear with us, go ahead and comment as you like, here or in the poll thread, but give some benefit of the doubt here, and further changes may be done.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

Thank You from AW from me too! I use & check it nearly everyday.
The change is telling us of a new HW? And please don't fight, I think
we are old enough.

Quote:

PowerPC Amigas |-- Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x - Discussion of AmigaOS4 itself, OS4 drivers, etc. |-- Amiga OS4 Software - Discussion of applications for AmigaOS4. |-- Amiga OS4 Hardware - Discussion for hardware running AmigaOS4 |-- Amiga PPC Linux - Discussion of Linux running on AmigaOS4 capable hardware

Why is "Amiga OS4 Hardware" a category under "PowerPC Amigas"? The other way round could make sense. And then AmigaOS itself is also listed under "PowerPC Amigas"? Eh?
I mean, PowerPC Amigas are supposedly but a small part of "AmigaOS 4 Hardware", since OS4 is also supposed to run on other things than Amigas, such as "AmigaOnes", "Amys" and whatnot.
Maybe using "PPC AmigaOS..." instead of "AmigaOS4..." would be another improvement, given that some seem to believe that there some day will be higher version numbers than 4.

Here's a suggestion:

PPC AmigaOS Hardware
|__ Amiga - Discussion of Amigas capable of running PPC AmigaOS [well, OS4]
|__ AmigaOne - Discussion of Eyetech "AmigaOnes"
|__ et c... - Discussion of [whatever other licensed 3rd party HW there might be]

PPC AmigaOS Software
|__ AmigaOS4 - Discussion of AmigaOS4 itself, OS4 drivers, etc.
|__ OS4 Apps - Discussion of applications.
|__ OS4 Games - three guesses what this is
|__ AmigaOS 3.x - Discussion of old (Warp/PowerUp) PPC software
|__ Alternative OSes and emulation
|__ et c...
|__ AmigaOS5... ;)

M68k Amiga
|_ et c...

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Oh, bother.

Quote:

Wouldn't you guys like to see AmigaInc

Who ??

>Does anyone agree with this:...<
I think wegster replies is really good !
Since I joined there are always been discussions about other OS, even some questions about windblows... Even if a lot of those discussions degenerated into flamewars, a few remained civilised.
The worse I saw were about Morphos, not too much about AROS, WindBlows, etc (yes, there were some IIRC).

IMHO, AW should be focussed on AOS4 and HW which are supported (Amy'06, A1, mA1, etc...). BUT this shouldn't mean to ban other OSes !
I used to post a bit on ANN.LU and Moobunny (:oops) and as soon as I mentioned I had an AmigaOne, then I was almost insulted, critisizing so much AmigaInc/Hyperion/Eyetech/AmigaOne/AOS4/AmigaWorld than now I rarely visit those site..
Here, some Pegs owner didn't have it easy, especially when they start criticising A1/AOS4 or related or when they blindly advocate their system. BUT, when discussions are objective, then IMO, it's an "added-value" for everyone.
A1/AOS4 is not perfect, Peg/Mos is not perfect, but combined we could make certainly a better system. YES, I wouldn't appreciate AOS4 running on Peg, but mainly because of bbrv comments on various website (like osnews.com a long time ago)... BUT if it did, I would likely "ignore" it...

Jerry

_________________
- AOS has been ported to ex-86 ! It's called AROS and WinUAE... Or E-UAE on Linux !

- A1XE-G4 up and runing with:
512MB Ram / 200GB and 80GB HardDisks on Sii0680.
AOS4 Final Update / AmiZilla 0.1 Alpha

Quote:

Yes, this is true, but the current 'Alt Amiga' is for operating system discussion, not for hardware.

And since when does "General computing and technology" concerns only with hardware? I've seen discussions about Windows there, is Windows hardware?

The point still stands, though, that there's no logical reason by which discussions about, say, the playstation show up on the front page and discussions about MOS or AROS don't.

Could you give me the explanation for the above?

Last edited by falemagn on 13-Jan-2006 at 10:15 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Quote:

And since when does "General computing and technology" concerns only with hardware? I've seen discussions about Windows there, is Windows hardware?

Did you not just answer yourself? General would tend to imply to me, something that does not fit in the other existing (ie, more specific) forums.

Or were you asking for a Windows forum on an Amiga site? I'm assuming we're in understanding about the rest of my previous response though, so, moving on..

Quote:

The point still stands, though, that there's no logical reason by which discussions about, say, the playstation show up on the front page and discussions about MOS or AROS don't.

Yes, it does still stand. And to that, I remain unsure what to respond with, at least in a fashion that can totally negate the argument, and that is the truth, period.

AW remains predominantly an OS4 site, but has other forums that exist because of member interest, such as the Classics forum which was added as a result of user requests, and now expanded into two forums. General Tech exists for a similar reason- it's not Amiga, whether we use semantics involving trademarks or not, but it's related in that most remaining Amiga users certainly share an interest in technology.

However, those have a pretty easy time co-existing in relative 'peace' with the site's focus on AmigaOS4, and it's members, without much trouble. In the past, that has not been the case between all Amiga-like (including Amiga(tm)) users, developers, companies, and sometimes their grandmothers tossed in as well. That in part, is part of the 'heritage' and reason for AW in the first place. There is a fine line between 'a lesson learned' versus 'once bitten, twice shy,' and that line becomes even finer where passions are involved, which certainly exist in the Amiga community/communities.

So, let's just lay out what's obvious, so at least we can agree on some of it then, shall we?

The Amiga community has lost enough in source code, people, financial interests, etc to make it pretty amazing we are all collectively (all Amiga derived/like systems) are today in some respects.

To most people looking in, whether it's a visit to MB, to AW, mailing lists, newsgroups, it's all so much incomprehensible insanity it's not even explainable to them. To lose even more, where we could all be gaining and perhaps starting to mend some old wounds, is simply unacceptable if it can be avoided, if not with everyone, but with some. I doubt I'll ever be invited to dinner at Bill Bucks, or Mikey and [ insert a few names here ] will go get drunk and stumble around together, that doesn't mean that no cooperation or joint efforts can exist between people, even if it may not be possible between companies.

As a site that hopes to represent, as well as support it's members, that does leave a problem. Wounds don't heal overnight, even if overnight seems to be a fairly long time. Some have already said flat out that opening an Alt Amiga OS Forum is simply stupid or use less nice words, and understand that while it may seem 'unfair' to see PS3 on the front page while a post about people trying to get MOS running on their classics is not, you might look at it as a compromise, an effort to keep people while trying to become more tolerant and acknowledging the fact that there may be something to gain for all in some levels of cooperation, and see where it goes instead.

If you, or anyone else, can say exactly where this is all going to go, if any new friendships may be formed or not, new projects started, or even just a new idea that turns out to be 'pretty damned cool,' then please enlighten me, because I don't know myself. There may be changes yet that surprise both of us, or all of us, and it's at least possible that some of that change has little to do with how our forums are laid out.

Last edited by wegster on 13-Jan-2006 at 01:18 PM.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

The impression after a few days:

A change for the better.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

@ wegster

Quote:

Quote: Quote: I would like to suggest that at user level we could choose which forums are available at front page.. Yes, that has been discussed, and may be a possibility in the future. In that case, that would likely apply to ALL forums, or a per forum or category basis, before anyone asks.

As Picard would say: "Make it so!"

______________________
Moxee

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Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

Quote:

Do I have to buy a Pegasos or get a copy of AROS in order to post there? Do I have to buy an AOne (where?) in order to post on OS4 forums?

well, i don't have an A1, so the only comments I make about that are whatever I have seen at amiga meetings.
I have a peg and now that there is a forum for that I can (hopefully) say something useful about it. I seriously doubt that you have to own the HW in order to be ALLOWED to see or post in any thread. the idea is to exchange info. help people learn about stuff.

it's to OPEN communication - not close it off.

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"In terms of worship, I worship the God of Irony.
That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

Quote:

I think it's a bad idea. Thin end of the wedge and all that. Moreover it's going to give the buck fanboys and buck himself an outlet to spam (again) like he did with his "Ooh lookit my blog on a morph-os website!"

you seriously think he needs "permission" to spam?
that it will make it easier?
come on. he needs no help there.

the way to deal with spam is correct identification by members and alerting a mod. There's no need to even make a post. In fact, anytime you see someone posting spam, it's best to report it and then ignore it.

_________________
"In terms of worship, I worship the God of Irony.
That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam