@R-Team

Quote:

@AMiGR You are in the blue camp .. but NOT a troll !! If all members [on both sides] like you .. the future glows better for BOTH camps !

While I agree with you general sentiment regarding AMiGR and zerohero, a big *YAWN* at that camp thing. Can't we just bury it once for all? Maybe adding that word to the swearword-filter would be an idea...

Last edited by hatschi on 06-Nov-2006 at 11:04 AM.

@ Alkis

OK, this discussion can obviously go on forever. To sum up (and move on):

You think a MorphOS/Efika combo would be totally useless for everyone, I think it would make a perfect match with much opportunity for both the OS and the hardware. You think it's good that Efika is not released for the Efika dispite it's already running, I think it's pure idiocy.

Can't we just leave it at that now? This has been off topic way to long anyway ...

@Alkis and TMHGM

Alkis, I think TMHGM's main point is that since MOS already runs on the Efika board, it would cost nothing to the MOS Team to release a public version of MOS for the users who want to buy it along the Efika, it would rather bring cash to them.

I can understand this point, although it relies on the assumption that it would cost nothing to them to do so, which I am not ready to bet upon.

Maybe they deem it not worth the assle of having to provide support to their (potentially very few) customers? Support requires time, and time is money.

-- edit --

If that's the reason for not releasing MOS, though, there's something that can be done about it: if you really so strongly want MOS for the Efika, make sure to gather a group of people big enough to bring into MOS Team's pockets enough cash to make them change their mind.

How to do it? Set up a sort of poll, where everyone is asked to name a price range for MOS in the hypothesis it would be sold alone to be run on the Efika. At the end of the poll, which could last for, say, 7 or 10 days, you'd get enough data to present the MOS Team so that they can make an informed decision on whether it would be worth for them to sell MOS as a standalone product.

Last edited by falemagn on 06-Nov-2006 at 11:46 AM.
Last edited by falemagn on 06-Nov-2006 at 11:37 AM.
Last edited by falemagn on 06-Nov-2006 at 11:26 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@AMiGR
I'm not quite sure why you're so anti the Efika as a candidate for OS4 hardware. Sure it might be slow, but it's cheap, and going to be available something like 6 months before the Sam (if some recent posts are right anyway).

Frankly, I welcome *any* hardware that OS4 could run on - beggars can't be choosers. Plus past history of potential OS4 mobos (e.g. Amy'05) shows that chances of success are quite low, so the more potential mobos the better.

I would rather we have several mobos to choose from, and then let the market decide which is best.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ falemagn

Quote:

So, how does a Apple Power Mac Dual G5 2ghz with 1.5GB RAM for 301 EUR sound like? Or an iMac G5 20" at 366 EUR? You see, it's not that hard.

Hey, I never said I didn't like Mac PPC hardware!

Relatively cheap and powerful, especially when you spend some time searching on e-bay. Of course I wouldn't mind MorphOS on that (from my personal POV), no, rather the opposite!

But wouldn't building a future upon discontinued, recycled e-bay Mac hardware be pretty much the same as building a future upon discontinued, recycled e-bay PowerUP hardware, only that the Mac hardware would be better?

Quote:

Quote: MorphOS could *not easily* run on the mini-mac. Really? How do you know?

Correct me if I'm wrong here: The Mac hardware is proprietary and closed. Without documentation you need to reverse-engineering by peeking and poking, trial and error. Getting an OS to work by doing that must be *more difficult* than having it running on the Efika, especially since it *already runs* on the Efika. They could perhaps try to get an official blessing from Apple, but what would you answer when they ask you "what's in it for me"? You can read about Kai Staat's (of Terrasoft Solutions, YellowDog Linux) opinions about their "Mac Hardware" and "Apple Cooperation" experiences here.

Having Yellowdog on Mac hardware has been a PITA for them. Would it be easier for "the MorphOS Team", especially now since the PPC hardware is discontinued and Apple can't possibly gain anything from such a cooperation?

@ AmiGRQuote:

DVD video playback? I seriously doubt that it can play *full resolution* DVDs with no scaling down in the decoder directly

Zhe Efika is able to replay DVD is full resolution at no frame skip at abot 90% CPU load (decoded by the 5200). The trick is leting the DMA doing the transfer of the decoded data to the gfx card at no CPU time cost. 400MHz are enough to to the *pure* decodation.

citation from ppcnux:
... Mr Carda told, the EFIKA would be able to playback a full resolution DVD with up to 92% CPU load. The programmable DMA engine seems to play an important role here since it moves the decoded data from the CPU core to the gfxcard autonomously so the CPU is already able to decode the next frame. This leads to a typical performance benefit of 15 - 20 %. We could not verify the claims about full resolution DVD playback at this time, but the movie trailers played from HD looked fine. ...

source: http://www.ppcnux.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6614

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@ ChrisH

YES!

@ AmiGRQuote:

ML and IRC, if I remember correctly.

It was never stated on the ml. On IRC maybe, but , well IIRC there were always those rumours that Laire had MOS running on his Powerbook since 2001 (I remember to have talked about MOS on laptops with him at the Aachen show).
The rumours were there since ages, but it was *never* confirmed. (Still I'd give a lot for a Powerbook or iBook version).

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

Quote:

Well, considering you could get an used Mac Mini with a G4@1.25 GHz, 40GB HDD and 512MB RAM for as low as $315 (250 EUR, approximatively), then yes, the Efika is kind of useless, from a casual user perspective. MorphOS could run on that Mac Mini as easily as on the Efika.

While these prices are quite attractive mind that these are *used *items. The Efika is new and still on the beginning.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@ falemagn

Quote:

Quote: Let's just hope it's not a fraud. My first win on ebay ever! Bah! Of course it was! Luckily, hadn't paid yet.

Is this the future of MorphOS/OS4?

@ChrisH

I am not against the Efika used as MOS or OS4 hardware, I just don't share the view that it would be of any use for individual end-users. It would be good as the basis for some kind of an embedded product using either OS and if such a product gets developed and finds a market, that's where the money is. Not selling single units to a few enthusiasts.

_________________

Well, obviously, saying that something will be supported isn't a promise. What *is* a promise, however, is that there is other hardware that is either gonna be supported or already supported.

_________________

Quote:

Well, obviously, saying that something will be supported isn't a promise. What *is* a promise, however, is that there is other hardware that is either gonna be supported or already supported.

No idea what you are trying to say with the above.

Recent post by Ralph Schmidt on MOS support of other platforms.

That's basically the kind of answer you get from Ralph, if he gets pissed off.

Anyway, it means a simple thing: When they announce specific hardware support, we'll know, they have no time to go around to counter every single claim everywhere.

As with everything about anything Amiga or MOS, "will be supported" in a discussion means "might be supported", sorry for stating it as a fact, but my point still stands: They have plans.
Same as the OS4 team, if all else fails, they have plans too.

No matter how stupid some people like TMHG think the MOS team is, they would not waste their work just for a grudge. It'd take far more than that. If they think that the Efika isn't a good idea for end users and that they have better options, they might actually have a good reason, especially considering that not only does it run on it but the main developer is writing the firmware and as such knows more about it than *anyone* participating in these threads.

Last edited by AMiGR on 06-Nov-2006 at 03:54 PM.

_________________

"because we have better things to waste our time on....(placeholder for the most useless thing you can think about). "

So they ARE working on the Efika after all, OMFG!!"!211!

http://www.genesippc.com/press.php?date=20061106

Quote:

Genesi regrets to announce that the Pegasos G4 motherboard, CPU cards and the Open Desktop Workstation have sold out and have been discontinued. The company hopes to replace this product line with the Pegasos 8641D in the near future. A program for early-adopters and developer support based around Freescale evaluation and reference design for this processor is up and running on Power Developer.

Maybe MorphOS will also run on the Panda and/or the Samantha. Just a guess.

The Sam motherboard isn't solely created for OS 4 and if Amiga Inc. manages to screw the license thing up it is all the more likely MorphOS will make it to the Sam motherboard.

A good strategy would indeed be to support Mac hardware. There are way, way more new and used Mac Mini's with a G4 out there then any other specialist hardware. Supporting the Mac Mini G4 and PowerMac G4 would not generate new hardware but a lot of second hand hardware which can be bought cheaply very soon.

I think that is a very good backup strategy for both OS 4 and MorphOS.

_________________
AmigaOne-XE G3 OS 4.
A4000 PPC
A1200 PPC

BEGIN conspiracy theory

Pegasos III is the Amiga Inc. 'mystery device'.

END conspiracy theory

@PulsatingQuasar

Quote:

Maybe MorphOS will also run on the Panda and/or the Samantha. Just a guess. The Sam motherboard isn't solely created for OS 4 and if Amiga Inc. manages to screw the license thing up it is all the more likely MorphOS will make it to the Sam motherboard.

Unlikely, unfortunately.

Agreed, support old PPC mac's. Take an old Power G3,G4 off ebay for £100, strip it bare, and stuff in some support pci cards. Viola!

Or for us lucky fools you haven't dumped our old ppc macs, stuff in those supported cards.

Oh well, I can dream. Bring on the custom hardware few will buy.