Quote:

This regards old stuff which hasn't been used by Amiga employees for quite some time now.

That's certainly interpreting things in the most positive way. Technically that's correct, of course, but the reason they haven't used the "old stuff" is because they haven't had access to the office they could no longer afford to pay rent for. Naturally the company wants to try to portray things in the best light. We'll see how things actually turn out.

One thing that makes me rather skeptical of Gary Peake's explanation is that a company as small and young as Amiga, Inc. rarely has unneeded "old stuff" of the type listed at the auction site after only three years in operation. Also, if this was a voluntary sale by Amiga, Inc., why didn't it coincide with their vacating the office months ago? That's when furniture would be unneeded, if they were moving to furnished facilities or making an intentional shift to telecommuting or whatever.Quote:

We have already selected a question with regard to this topic for Week 11 of the weekly Q&A with Fleecy, so if you are really interested then stay tuned

Fleecy has gained a reputation for tapdancing around the truth in these sessions, so it'll be interesting to see how he handles this one. I don't expect a direct, satisfying answer, myself, so I'll be happily surprised if he does actually cover all the points people have brought up.

-- gary_c

@ gary_c

You seem quite confident with regard to the things you state and I believe I know why. Maybe you could state your source?

Quote:

1. The auction is not held by AInc, but by their former landlord. That alone should tell you something.

It tells me that if that is really the case, and I were in charge of Amiga, I would be sueing both my previous landlord and the Auction company for use of my companies name and logo on their auctions!

Quote:

You seem quite confident with regard to the things you state and I believe I know why. Maybe you could state your source?

I don't have any inside knowledge on this. The only information I'm basing my speculation on is what I read on, basically, Moobunny, ANN, Amiga.org, and here, along with odds and ends from other public sites. Nothing special from Genesi, if that's what you're hinting about.

-- gary_c

@ gary_c

Quote:

I don't have any inside knowledge on this. The only information I'm basing my speculation on is

OK, then it's just your personal speculation. But usually speculations start with something like "I believe", "I think" or "I speculate" and not " Technically that's correct, of course, but the reason they haven't used the "old stuff" is because"...

If you really want to be sure either way, then you could ask this company who are virtually next to AI's offices (suite 200/210) if they would be so kind as to have a look?

_________________

If you look back at the top of the thread, I did say "Apparently it's because...." which is essentially equivalent to "I believe that" (i.e., "it appears that"). I think it would load normal conversation down too heavily with qualifying phrases if you had to preface each sentence with "I think" or "it is my opinion that." We have to depend on context to indicate whether what we're hearing is opinion or accepted fact.

For example, this news story now has the update Quote:

Update: It has been confirmed by various Amiga employees that this sale includes only old redundant computer equipment and furniture.

But I don't see this confirmation anywhere on amiga.com, which Amiga staff told us to regard as the only source of official news regarding the company. Did these "various Amiga employees" post the news somewhere else as official spokespeople for the company, or were they just stating a personal opinion? And where can we read these confirmations? Whoever posted the update seems to want us to accept that second-hand report as an official source. It seems rather dubious and all too easy, to me. It seems to me an update should contain the exact, quoted words of the Amiga employees if they are to be accepted by the readers, who can then make their own minds up. This is the standard other companies are held to. Sorry if this seems too gnit-picking, but the truth seems to be awfully slippery these days, and I'm as reluctant as the next guy to accept a statement without knowing its context and actual wording.

Another strange example:

Someone claiming to be Alan Redhouse posted at Moobunny in response to Bill Buck's chronology of the Artisia chip problem and said, among other things. Quote:

You've pissed off Amiga Inc and, no doubt, Garry Hare - so no chance of an Os4 licence for you.

Now, if this is in fact Alan's post (and no denials have been issued), this statement is clearly another indication that Garry Hare is or was functioning as head of Amiga, Inc (or at least as someone with major decision-making powers there). Now, who are we to believe on that question? So the truth is slippery, indeed. All we can do is hang on for the ride and hope that eventually we'll get some more substantial public demonstration of the facts.

Ray Akey reminds us that Bill McEwen would appear in public at Amiwest in a few months, demonstrating that he is still CEO. So that could be very interesting if he's willing to take questions from the people and answer them honestly.

-- gary_c

@ gary_c

Quote:

I think it would load normal conversation down too heavily with qualifying phrases if you had to preface each sentence with "I think" or "it is my opinion that."

I believe your 'logic' here would be very confusing. Just because somewhere within a thread you state "Apparently it's because" we should consider everything you formulate afterwards as your personal opinion?

IMO you should only formulate statements as being factual if they aren't solely your personal opinion or interpretation. I know many people would get very confused otherwise, including myself.

Quote:

But I don't see this confirmation anywhere on amiga.com, which Amiga staff told us to regard as the only source of official news regarding the company.

Glad to hear you feel so strongly about this. So why do you base your opinions and interpretation on information provided by 3rd parties and individuals?

We got confirmation directly from the source. For example also Amiga-News.de posted this information. I believe Petra is mostly very accurate with regard to her reporting.

Quote:

Just because somewhere within a thread you state "Apparently it's because" we should consider everything you formulate afterwards as your personal opinion?

No, but starting with a phrase like that indicates that I am operating with certain assumptions. I have to trust the reader's intelligence, as we all do, to evaluate what is written. By starting that way, I was trying to say that, based on what I've seen and read, this is how things look. Quote:

So why do you base your opinions and interpretation on information provided by 3rd parties and individuals?

Because that's what I have to work with. Naturally there are degrees of authenticity; hearing directly from an involved individual is better than hearing second or third-hand. But I'm not privy to the conversations of those directly involved most of the time, so I read all sides, consider the logic, the possible motives, etc. and form an opinion. This is how we all have to operate, isn't it? Even people who do communicate directly with the movers and shakers have to evaluate what they're being fed ... uh, I mean told.

I've learned that some individuals seem to be trustworthy, and don't have any particular reason to lie. Others have shown a pattern of saying things that weren't justified, or have "an agenda," or maybe just exaggerate now and then, or whatever. Anyway, you learn to evaluate your sources and weigh what they say accordingly, so even if some are second-hand or something, you might give them credence. Others may be "first-hand," but you know their past patterns mean you should wait for more information before accepting what they say wholeheartedly, etc.

I brought up the "it wasn't on Amiga.com" rather sarcastically, actually, because it illustrates how even those we are asked to trust aren't consistent. You can see the logic problem with "only believe what you read at Amiga.com," which I believe Gary Peake said originally and which was widely repeated by other Amiga staff in order to cut down on unauthorized statements. But now we get Fleecy posting here as well as at Moobunny and elsewhere, Ray Akey posting at various forums, people posting on various mailing lists, and all of them expecting to be believed even though they're talking outside of the "official channel" of Amiga.com. So they contradict their own priciple. This makes us realize that even first-hand sources (i.e., people involved in the companies) are problematic when it comes to credibility.
Quote:

We got confirmation directly from the source.

A couple of problems with that. First, although you may have heard something first hand, the readers here did not necessarily; they only have your word for it. First-hand confirmation means the actual words of the individual, quoted. "AmigaWorld.net says there is direct confirmation from the source" is secondary information. So if you want us to be equally informed, you have to post the actual words of the Amiga, Inc. staff so we can evaluate them, or at least provide a URL if you don't want to include the quote.

The second problem is that in situations of duress, a statement from an individual involved may be direct communication, but it is also very likely to try to spin the description of reality in a way that puts the company in the best light. This is only natural, and what we'd all do in that position, but it's something that has to be considered. The former information minister of Iraq is a classic example, as is the spokesman of any government leader or corporation that's undergoing criticism. Therefore, a statement from an Amiga staff member has to be scrutinized to be sure the person isn't just trying to deflect critical analysis.

That's why a good journalist must resist becoming too friendly with those he reports on; he may lose his objectivity, his ability to report news that hurts those he considers his friends, or hurts their cause. This is the one of the differences between journalism and public relations, between reporting news and promoting products. You can do one or the other; it's very difficult for people to accept someone trying to both report news objectively on a company or product and promote the company and product at the same time.

-- gary_c

A little update, to address the point of whether it is Amiga itself or a creditor holding the auction (and some people may choose to think this is a complete fabrication but, anyway, for the record):Quote:

Update: I got another email back from Julie at the auction site. She corrected herself (she was confused with another auction that wasn't a liquidation sale), the landlord is the actual seller of the office equiptment, not Amiga Inc.

This was posted by Dammy at Moobunny. Anybody not believing this is an honest report, feel free to email the auction company yourself.

-- gary_c

Quote:

Quote: 1. The auction is not held by AInc, but by their former landlord. That alone should tell you something. It tells me that if that is really the case, and I were in charge of Amiga, I would be sueing both my previous landlord and the Auction company for use of my companies name and logo on their auctions!

First of all I have both talked to the auction company on the phone and received an email to my inquiry. The sale at the Amiga Inc facility is not being done by Amiga Inc, it is being done for the Inception Group LLC (ie there landlord). Understand most of the auctions on the page are some type of bankruptcy, lien or seizure. Two examples of that are Network Commerce & Consolidated Freightways, the difference is they actually confess on their home page that they are carrying out the sales due to bankruptcy etc. The only way Amiga Inc is related to the sale is it once was there stuff and there debt will be reduced after the sale. They have no other say in it. They were locked out of that facility last year as has been reported all kinds of places, and by no less then 3 pizza guys. Of course after this sale, I'm not sure how they are going to pay Bolten or Matt, or the state of Washington or Airborne Express, but I am sure the spin will begin on those cases RSN. I wonder what Ray will call Matt??
-Tig

_________________
We played the first thing that came to our heads, it just happened to be the best song in the world.

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