It would be better to post the subject in a more "readable" manner.

Not everyone is digging though 80+ comments on a news item just to finally
stumble over this effort. Maybe put in on the closed AOne forum or easily
on the front page forum?

And yes i'd be in too

EDIT: I'm referring to DaveP and followups

Quote:

the fix is under NDA ?? i payed alot of money for this board and now i should pay again to get it fixed and i lost my warranty ?? really bad !! if this patch wansnt under NDA i could fix it by myself but no i have to pay 30 bucks plus i have to wait weeks AND i have no warranty !

yep, the same for me, i just can't believe this!
if this fix is harder then modchipping a ps2, which i really doubt, i will be able to handle this just fine.
i agree with the 'early bird' thing and the possibility of bugs, but nowhere did it ever say anything about bugfixes being 'secret'. ARGHFL!

what if i just check the board of another amigan with a patched XE and just change whatever is different on his board on mine? are people getting this fix supposed to sign a NDA? so, if they get their board back they can post photo's of the parts replaced, to share to the rest of the world?

NDA my *beep*!

@Juzz

AFAIK those are the rules, but there might offcourse be other rules playing a part in this matter.

A year ago I returned a TV for a warranty repair, after trying several times they had to give up on the repair and they no longer had that model. I ended up with a new model and complete new warranty, quite nice and no problems with the company I bought it from (hifiklubben).

Anyway I wiill be looking forward to hear from you regarding your offer on repair, I can wait though as I already got a SIL card and don't use USB atm

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@Troels

As with everything else here in DK nothing is simple - I have someone to ask on these issues and has used this person every time I have had doubts on the legalities of warranty (and this person further has other experts to ask).

The lowdown of this particular issue is that the repair would give you a two year warranty on the parts replaced on the motherboard.
However this is the answer I could get late sunday evening - so this will be turned over with the experts on the danish warranty issues.

Rest assured that a solution will be found.

Last edited by Juzz on 31-Jan-2005 at 12:45 AM.

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The first person to get a Linux installer running on the AmigaOne :-

@RedMelons

The distinction as to what the XE SE boards are relates to the market they are sold in. In the sense that they are boards for a yet to be written OS, that are being sold as developer boards, (ie the boards that are being used by developers of the OS and other software) and that they being sold within the Amiga community.

It is only reasonable to conclude that the boards cannot be 100% guranteed to work according to the spec for an OS which is in the process of being written.

Even so this does not require an explicit statement by them, or their retailers. The market to which the boards were being sold was not the general public, but the amigacommunity who have special interests in the deveoping an AmigaOS platform and are aware of the general state of play when they bought the board. No one walking off the street could be the least confused that the board was inteneted for them (that is the real point).

The means to fully test the boards is absent to begin with, the OS written from scratch to fully use its design . The boards and the OS thus stand as beta in terms of some final product. The corrections to the Microi-A1-C are a logical consequence of the process of development. Yes there are flaws in the design of the XE and SE flaws whcih became apparant through the process of ongoing developoment.

Thoise problemns seen under Linux, or even guessed at as hardware flaws could only really be established as such by the OS meant to run them. It is a catch-22 but inn the nature of its development.

Two different things are getting mixed up here.

The faults in the eyetech boards should be corrected, on moral and business grounds and I think following DaveP's suggestion is a very good step.

The other thing, the thing I have been reacting to, is an attempt on other sites to rewrite history and claim that the SE and XE boards were sold explicitly as consumer items to the general public -- there are some serious implications to this and it is comming from people who do not own A1s and whose interests lies in another direction altogether.

So I am probably confusing matters, for which I apologise.

I agree with everyone about what Eyetecth should do (fix the boards), but I am opposed to some of the reasoning being employed as to why they should. On top of this there are those outside AW.net who clearly have other objectives in mind rather than fixing A1 boards. My only point is that the boards were never general consumer items, that that legal avenue was never opened to attack Eyetech.

On the other handEyetech please help get these boards fixed as soon as possible.

Last edited by GregS on 31-Jan-2005 at 04:57 AM.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

I posted it in the closed forum 10 minutes after posting it here.

@GregS

Quote:

Even so this does not require an explicit statement by them, or their retailers. The market to which the boards were being sold was not the general public, but the amigacommunity who have special interests in the deveoping an AmigaOS platform and are aware of the general state of play when they bought the board. No one walking off the street could be the least confused that the board was inteneted for them (that is the real point).

There are very large numbers of current and former Amiga users who were not closely involved with the A1 project in its earlier stages and they most certainly could be confused about what they were looking at. Indeed, I'd say the word deceived is not too strong for the situation.

Eyetech seem to have made no move at all to sell the A1s as 'betatest' boards. Contrary, they appear to have gone to some lengths to make the A1s look like 100% solid and tested consumer products, a 'new Amiga'.

Take a look at this advertisement that ran in Total Amiga magazine, issue 14. (dial-up warning: it's 1.1MB, extracted from the PDF version)

The background pictures are screwed up, but the text of the ad is clear. There is not the slightest hint that the product in question is not a consumer product and may have very significant problems, but plenty of flannel to make the reader believe otherwise. Much of the ad is filled with normal Amiga items for sale. And the A1 segment is headed:

"At last - a flexible, expandable PPC Amiga is now available!"

And they also offer pre-built systems with Linux and UAE pre-installed, which is a very strange thing to do if the motherboard is aimed completely at developers. And we're assured that the systems are "Assembled, tested and burnt-in".

There is one note that 'no technical support on Linux will be available from us", but since they were shipping machines with Linux pre-installed I, as I think most people would, read that as meaning "don't call us if you can't get KDE running, because we don't know either". Not as a disclaimer for potentially flawed hardware and fundamental incompatibilities.

I'm afraid this idea that Eyetech sold the A1s as anything other than consumer products is nothing but a mixture of fantasy and revisionism.

And on a personal note, I'm through arguing about all this. Eyetech's actions, or the lack of them, the broken hardware, etc. I have a small project to finish off, which should take no more than a month, and then my A1 is being dismantled and probably sold off and I'll retreat to the far edges of the Amiga community. There are better ways to spend time than alternately fighting broken hardware and screaming at Eyetech to fix it. Even OS4, wonderful operating system that it is, isn't enough to keep all this from being a huge drag.

I'll content myself with watching from the sidelines and hoping for better hardware.

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Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

@DrBombcrater,

Have you added your name to the 'letter to Eyetech'?

@ Cecilla
Quote:

these X...whatever they are called.... were beta boards. they are no longer being made because they were the early versions. unless someone sells you their old board, you can't get one.

Thanks This is what I need to know. I will not buy used one

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@DrBombcrater

Quote:

And on a personal note, I'm through arguing about all this. Eyetech's actions, or the lack of them, the broken hardware, etc. I have a small project to finish off, which should take no more than a month, and then my A1 is being dismantled and probably sold off and I'll retreat to the far edges of the Amiga community. There are better ways to spend time than alternately fighting broken hardware and screaming at Eyetech to fix it. Even OS4, wonderful operating system that it is, isn't enough to keep all this from being a huge drag.

Bummer. For me OS4 is THE thing that keeps it all together. Would be nice if we would see more hardware that can run OS4. I think/hope that will happen.

Coder

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@DrBombcrater,

I do not know how anyone belonging to this community and buying these board could not be mistaken that it WAS NOT A GENERAL CONSUMER ITEM (seeing the board was sold to the community, there might be a handful of exceptions which should get complete refunds and in one case this is what indeed was offered).

My only point is thus a negative obne. wehter they are called "developer boards" (the only thing I have until recently ever heard them referred as), "early bird", "untested", "betas" -- whatever the point bis that they were never sold as general consumer items (ie marketed to the general public)

As much as anyone gets annoyed, or wants things fixes or is happy or unhappy with their prurc hase that negative point is important. It is easy enough now to sum this up clearly, I apologise to you and everyone else that it has taken me so long to say a simple thing simply.

For a whole heap of reasonms, adbvertising has a secondary force, the primary and defining one is the market to which the object was sold.

Quote:

I'm afraid this idea that Eyetech sold the A1s as anything other than consumer products is nothing but a mixture of fantasy and revisionism.

No this is certianly not the case though this is what bhas been stated around various sites and many people have come to believe it, but it was never true -- I don't think anyone can now launch a legal case on this basis with so many denials from people who have bought the boards. We will not I think be seeing a rerun of thew Amiga Inc litaigation. So the whole thing is now moot (that word seems very popular these days)

I think your suggestion of selling your board and waiting for a consumer one is really the best solution. I don't think you need wait long as the Micro-A1-C is already being sold and has none of the previous problems.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@GregS

Quote:

I think your suggestion of selling your board and waiting for a consumer one is really the best solution. I don't think you need wait long as the Micro-A1-C is already being sold and has none of the previous problems.

I'm not waiting for a 'consumer' model, Greg. I wouldn't, for example, ever consider buying a uA1 even though it seems to be pretty solid. What I want is to be able to buy an OS4-compatible board from a company that tells me accurately what I'm buying, and will take responsibility for any problems that arrise with their products -- ie, somebody other than Eyetech.

ACK's boards may be a possibility, maybe not. But hopefully a hardware supplier who understands the concepts of integrity and professionalism will enter the market at some point, and I'll be able to give them some of my hard earned cash.

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

Well you could consider buying from another EU store, like GuruMeditation, who do go out of their way on customer service.

@DrBombcrater

Quote:

ACK's boards may be a possibility, maybe not. But hopefully a hardware supplier who understands the concepts of integrity and professionalism will enter the market at some point, and I'll be able to give them some of my hard earned cash.

I am interested in the ACK thing to see how it turns out. There is no competition when it comes to hardware that runs OS4. Once there is, companies cannot afford to neglect the customer. And remember the golden rule, customer is king.

Coder

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@DaveP

The choice of dealer is pretty much irrelevant if the actual company responsible for the product is a known screw-up. I know many of the dealers (including GuruMed) try very, very hard to do things the right way. But without back-up the scope of the help they can offer is limited.

Besides, it goes against the grain to give more custom (even if indirectly) to a company that doesn't seem to give half a damn, especially after having been burnt once before. I'd rather buy a non-Eyetech product, even if that means waiting a while.

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

Quote:

I do not know how anyone belonging to this community and buying these board could not be mistaken that it WAS NOT A GENERAL CONSUMER ITEM (seeing the board was sold to the community, there might be a handful of exceptions which should get complete refunds and in one case this is what indeed was offered). My only point is thus a negative obne. wehter they are called "developer boards" (the only thing I have until recently ever heard them referred as), "early bird", "untested", "betas" -- whatever the point bis that they were never sold as general consumer items (ie marketed to the general public)

That's ridiculous.

Eyetech press release Nov 2002

"That, and identifying - and fixing a small problem with the Articia northbridge chip - have resulted in us holding back shipments of the consumer version of the AmigaOneG3-SE. That is until now!"

"... we are now able to offer a G4-based AmigaOne-XE at the same time as our public launch of the AmigaOneG3-SE."

@Georg

Quote:

"That, and identifying - and fixing a small problem with the Articia northbridge chip - have resulted in us holding back shipments of the consumer version of the AmigaOneG3-SE. That is until now!"

I dunno about other people but I do see the word consumer there. But I am sure someone will tell me I am reading it out of it's context. Right? Greg?

Coder

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@DrBombcrater

Regardless, it is still a dealer support issue as far as customers are concerned.

@Georg

Well spotted! I've read that relese several times and missed the significance of it.

Game over, I think.

@DaveP

I'm not willing to bet a large sum of money on any dealer's ability to fix major problems without backup. I'd want the organ grinder to sort things out, not the monkey. (if dealers will pardon the expression. No insult intended)

Last edited by DrBombcrater on 01-Feb-2005 at 09:06 PM.

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Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

Sure, but its still a dealer problem, under law that is. What you do with your own money is your concern - caveat emptor and all that.

Dave.