@Seehund

Remove the "AmigaOS" part of the section names in your suggestion, ie change "PPC AmigaOS Hardware" to "PPC Hardware" and "PPC AmigaOS Software" to "PPC Software", or put everything not related to AmigaOS hardware and software in it's own section and it would actually make sense. To put alternative operating systems under the AmigaOS software section just doesn't seem very logical to me, even if one can argue that it is AmigaOS "related" if the OS is capable of running software that was made for running on AmigaOS. For example, Linux can run certain Windows applications with the aid of WINE, but I really don't think that makes Linux "Windows related".

Let me make a modified version of your suggestion:

Next Generation AmigaOS Hardware
|__ AmigaOne - Discussions about Eyetech "AmigaOnes"
|__ Amy'05 - Discussions about Troika "Amy'05"
|__ PowerVixxen - Discussions about ACK "PowerVixxen"
|__ PowerUP - Discussions about Phase5 "PowerUP"
|__ et c... - Discussion of [whatever other licensed 3rd party HW there might be]

Next Generation AmigaOS Software
|__ AmigaOS4 - Discussion of AmigaOS4 itself, OS4 drivers, etc.
|__ OS4 Apps - Discussion of applications.
|__ OS4 Games - three guesses what this is

Classic Amiga
|__ 68k Amiga hardware - Discussions about classic Amiga hardware
|__ 68k AmigaOS software - Discussions about classic Amiga software
|__ 68k Amiga Emulation - Discussions about emulating classic Amiga

Misc
|__ Alternative OSes (if not in "General Computing" or "Amiga Emulation")
|__ Alternative PPC hardware (if not in "General Computing")
|__ General Computing
|__ DMZ - Open for anything

Last edited by samface on 14-Jan-2006 at 12:47 PM.
Last edited by samface on 14-Jan-2006 at 12:43 PM.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

Give us a freaking break, Samface, Linux does not have the Windows API as its native API, nor is it developed by long time Windows developers and it also does not bear stuff that have been used on Windows for bloody ages natively. Moreover, Linux doesn't have a chunk of the long time Windows users, still buying Windows applications to run on it or developing applications for that common API that will soon be released for Win. All of the above are the case for MorphOS and, partly, AROS.
Cybergraphics, MUI, SFS, AHI, Poseidon, etc., they all are native part of MorphOS and they have all been standards on AmigaOS, a ****fact**** that you cannot change.

Feel free not to use the KHTML port, when it gets released, as it will have originated from a system so unrelated to your precious.

Last edited by AMiGR on 14-Jan-2006 at 08:16 PM.

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@AmiGR

I really don't understand your hostility here. Discussions about software made for the AmigaOS3.x API would naturally fit into the classic AmigaOS software directory, it's only the discussions that does not fit into any of the Amiga categories with both regards to the OS and hardware that would go into one of those "alternative" directories under "misc", ie software made *only* for running MorphOS or AROS and hardware that is not capable of running any version of the AmigaOS without emulation.

Why would I refuse to use software just because it was ported to another operating system before it was ported to the Amiga? Now that just sounds plain silly and has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said nor written.

Last edited by samface on 15-Jan-2006 at 11:40 AM.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

Quote:

I really don't understand your hostility here.

That's what my hostility is all about :

Quote:

even if one can argue that it is AmigaOS "related" if the OS is capable of running software that was made for running on AmigaOS. For example, Linux can run certain Windows applications with the aid of WINE, but I really don't think that makes Linux "Windows related".

It's a partial truth.

Quote:

ie software made *only* for running MorphOS or AROS and hardware that is not capable of running any version of the AmigaOS without emulation.

Nope, not emulation. Wrapping, to smooth out the differences between them.

Quote:

Why would I refuse to use software just because it was ported to another operating system before it was ported to the Amiga? Now that just sounds plain silly and has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've said nor written.

It wouldn't be a port from an OS API to another, it would be mostly a recompile for the same OS, since the oh-so-alien OSes you are talking about share the same API as AmigaOS.
It would only be possible because some "alien" developers port KHTML to the AmigaOS API.

Last edited by AMiGR on 15-Jan-2006 at 12:53 PM.

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@Wegster
Quote:

Did you not just answer yourself? General would tend to imply to me, something that does not fit in the other existing (ie, more specific) forums. Or were you asking for a Windows forum on an Amiga site? I'm assuming we're in understanding about the rest of my previous response though, so, moving on..

It appears to me that you're going in circle. I'm not sure, though, whether you realize that or not.

1) I said that there was no need for an AROS/MOS specific forum because there was, ans still is, a forum which can perfectly hold discussions about those systems.

2) You answered that forum is not about software, but about hardware, and that's why the AROS/MOS specific thread was created.

3) I replied that that was not true, that that forum was always also about software, for instance Windows.

4) And now you reply that since there's no windows-specific forum, that one is used for such things (denying your own claim that such forum couldn't host sw discussions in the first place), and since there IS an AROS/MOS forum then those systems are better discussed there.

Do you realize that you're going in circle, to put it politely? The point is that there is no need for such a forum in the first place, as the existing one was perfectly able to hold discussions about those systems (as you confirmed, by saying that is perfectly allowed to talk about windows in there). We're back to point (1).

I hope you didn't do it on purpose.

Quote:

So, let's just lay out what's obvious, so at least we can agree on some of it then, shall we?

Sure, but the obvious is that you just created a lager where to put the undesired.

Fine with me, but just, simply, admit it.

Or put the AROS/MOS forum on the front page as well. Your choice: the writing is on the wall.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

@falemagn

Quote:

Sure, but the obvious is that you just created a lager where to put the undesired.

None of the people participating (even at this early date in the creation of the new forum)
have expressed this thought of yours.
Would it be terribly out of place for me to ask: "could you just give something new
a bit of a chance to mature and grow?"
We all have to start somewhere. IMO, this is that start.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

Quote:

Sure, but the obvious is that you just created a lager where to put the undesired.

are you implying that i'm "undesired" simply because I happen to have a peg1 and I might want to post comments about it?

_________________
"In terms of worship, I worship the God of Irony.
That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

All I'm implying, or rather, stating it explicitely - so no need to read between the words - is that you could have freely discused any topics regarding MOS and the Pegasos already, in the forum about general technology.

Now, instead, there's this paradoxical situation in which if you want to discuss MOS/AROS you have to do so in a forum hidden away from the front page. You're instead still allowed to discuss, say Windows, in a forum which is sported by the front page.

The only logical explanation for that is that AROS/MOS are not welcome here. It's got nothing to do with the "Main AOS4 focus".

Last edited by falemagn on 16-Jan-2006 at 09:39 AM.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Quote:

The only logical explanation for that is that AROS/MOS are not welcome here.

Hello Fabio,

So where do I stand?

A case of, "I wake up in the morning and I want to kill myself!"?

_________________

Don't really get what you mean...

But please, do notice the odd situation that such AROS/MOS forum created, and at least do try to answer to the question: why does a discussion about Windows show up on the front page, whilst a discussion about AROS/MOS doesn't?

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Quote:

you could have freely discused any topics regarding MOS and the Pegasos already, in the forum about general technology.

isn't the whole idea of a forum for MOS that if I need to find info about that topic i can go directly there are see if there's a topic with the issue i'm interested in?

i don't care if these threads are seen on the front page or not. stuff on the front is not "special" and not necessarily the topics that interest me. I always go looking for the stuff i care about and ignore the stuff i don't.

_________________
"In terms of worship, I worship the God of Irony.
That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

@ cecilia

Quote:

isn't the whole idea of a forum for MOS that if I need to find info about that topic i can go directly there are see if there's a topic with the issue i'm interested in? i don't care if these threads are seen on the front page or not. stuff on the front is not "special" and not necessarily the topics that interest me. I always go looking for the stuff i care about and ignore the stuff i don't.

This is why I wish we had a way to set our own Front Page Preferences. Although, I sure like the "News" or "Press Releases" which appear there.

_________________
Moxee

_________________
Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

Quote:

Don't really get what you mean...

The fact that I own a Peg2. If I, as a member of staff were part of this "conspiracy", how would I be able to face up to my fellow staff members as well as to the rest of the users here?

Quote:

But please, do notice the odd situation that such AROS/MOS forum created, and at least do try to answer to the question: why does a discussion about Windows show up on the front page, whilst a discussion about AROS/MOS doesn't?

And following on from my previous paragraph, we thought it be good to be able to allocate some space where such topics could be discussed. I hardly think that Amiga is trying to compete against Windows in this stage of our life, and in any case, we are NOT about to try and poach from other forums. If we, myself included, wish to talk about certain aspects of MOS or AROS in even a comparative framework with OS4, I do not see the reason for wishing to abandon the Alt Amiga OS forums at THIS EARLY STAGE yet.

Let's give it a chance, even for the short term. There is no harm in that is there?

And in any case, unless I have misread something, most MOS/AROS (or whatever else exists out there) will not deleted on sight. It is simply space that has been allocated to that end.

As for it not appearing on the front page, you must understand the complexion of this site, which is very much inclined towards OS4. Right or wrong is not the issue here. For some, the Alt Amiga forum may well indeed be a trashcan. For others, it will not.

I guess it depends on how you perceive it to be. My hope is that you don't perceive it to be the former. Like I said, please give it a chance, we too are watching, AND listening. Your voice is not that of one's in the desert. OK?



-edit-

And this from the announcement:

Quote:

While the primary goal has not changed, time has, and we have seen a widening of our membership base, and hopefully each of us as individuals as well.

Let's just see how things pan out first.

Last edited by Bodie_CI5 on 17-Jan-2006 at 09:08 AM.

_________________

Quote:

As for it not appearing on the front page, you must understand the complexion of this site, which is very much inclined towards OS4.

That's the exactly the crux of the problem, the source of the paradox.

How is Windows less against the "AOS4 inclination" of this site than AROS/MOS?

The answer to that question is the only thing that really matters, here.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Of course, as an OS, Windows is less OS4 inclined than would be AROS or MOS. No one can deny that, nor did I try to deny that fact.

MS, through sheer weight of numbers, however, brings that particular OS to the fore, and in any case, there have been many threads which do not dwell on Windows, nor linux for that matter but on Palm PC's etc. There is no Windows module on AW. There is now, however, a place for MOS, AROS and other such discussion albeit off the front page. You don't honestly expect us to hold a gun to each member's head and force them to accept something that for any number of reasons they do not.

I have already answered this trashcan nonsense in my previous post, so I see it as being irrelevant.

I wrote this as well in my previous post, but you seem to have glossed over it:

Quote:

And in any case, unless I have misread something, most MOS/AROS (or whatever else exists out there) will not deleted on sight. It is simply space that has been allocated to that end.

By that, obviously, I mean that if Peg, MOS, AROS and any such thing is made mention of in a thread, it will not be moderated if it pertains to something specifically. In that sense, it will be business as usual. For MOS etc. threads, whose focus is on these OS's, then the space has been provided for us to do so.

Honestly, I don't see what your problem is, especially as a chance to see how it will work out has not been granted.

If it does not work out, then from the poll on this subject, I quote DaveyD's words:

Quote:

If it doesnt succeed then the Alt forums will go.

From here.

It has nothing to do with censorship, nothing to do with trying to hide issues (the A1 forums opening up should be evidence of that). Space has been allocated to this end for the sharing of ideas etc. How this can be prematurely viewed negatively is, and I am sorry to say this Fabio, a little illogical just a few days after the announcement.

Like I said, let's wait and see first, shall we?

I don't know if I have answered your question with as much clarity as you need.

_________________

Quote:

It appears to me that you're going in circle. I'm not sure, though, whether you realize that or not. 1) I said that there was no need for an AROS/MOS specific forum because there was, ans still is, a forum which can perfectly hold discussions about those systems.

It appears then we are both going in circles, as I have answered this already. In brief, MOS and AROS are more related to Amiga(tm, etc) than are Windows. AS such, they have been given their own forum. That does not mean they will never be discussed ar part of normal discurse elsewhere, as certainly OS4 is also in some discussions outside of the OS4 specific forums.

Quote:

2) You answered that forum is not about software, but about hardware, and that's why the AROS/MOS specific thread was created.

No, I did not, in prior response to you:
Quote:

Yes, this is true, but the current 'Alt Amiga' is for operating system discussion, not for hardware. The Open Peg can certainly be discussed in the General technology section, and I believe it is, right now.

If I'm missing somewhere I may have stated incorrectly the Alt Forum was about hardware, please provide a link. I know I did so in the Alt Forum sticky, mistakenly, but hopefully that has now been cleared up so am only referencing our discussion at this time as a further clarification of 'what this means' etc.

Quote:

3) I replied that that was not true, that that forum was always also about software, for instance Windows.

Which forum are we now discussing? General Tech? Again, if so, all OSes may become spart of discussions in there, but while an OS4 speicifc thread _originates_ in an OS4 forum, so should MOS or AROS. In the course of discussion, any other OSes may be brought up as part of the natural discussion. Neither Windows nor OS X is of immediate interest to Amiga users, or not so much so that they warrant their own forum, thus _starting_ threads on them belongs in General. I hope this is clear now?

Quote:

4) And now you reply that since there's no windows-specific forum, that one is used for such things (denying your own claim that such forum couldn't host sw discussions in the first place), and since there IS an AROS/MOS forum then those systems are better discussed there.

Oh, so somewhere I stated General only is for hardware? I don't believe so..again, if so, please provide a link and I will update it if I indeed stated that. What I recall saying on General is:
Quote:

Did you not just answer yourself? General would tend to imply to me, something that does not fit in the other existing (ie, more specific) forums.

While there is certainly an obvious need for clarification, it would be simpler were I not mostly convinced we're simply playing semantics games here rather than out of any real concern on your part. I may be misreading this, of course, but that's the impression I'm seeing with this right now.

And the only 'real' issue I see as of yet not answered at this point, which you've brought up again after I responded to, is the issue of threads showing on the front page or not. I answered that as honestly as I could (I stated I don't know what we'll do yet, and yes, it's an issue because of the site's predominantly OS4 users and priority, but are looking into options), yet you asked it again.

One thing has arisen out of this however, that has not yet been covered, so I'd like to add in here, which is regarding News.

We are discussing this among ourselves, but AROS and MOS both have 'specialty sites' catering to news on both of them quite well already. At this point, 'major' News relating to these, (ie new release, or software that is across platforms or has an OS4 port, or perhaps a port in progress) will certainly be covered, but minor news items may not be. This is a preliminary statement at this point but is currently where we stand on this.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

Oh pal, look, I don't really have the time and will to go through your whole post when I already see that you grossly misunderstand what you read.

I'm just quoting a couple of emblematic sentence of yours, and then I'll leave it at that, as, really, nothing I'm gonna say will change what you have done and want to do anyway, and, all in all, it's not like I really care that much - got a real life to run.

Quote:

Quote: Yes, this is true, but the current 'Alt Amiga' is for operating system discussion, not for hardware. The Open Peg can certainly be discussed in the General technology section, and I believe it is, right now. If I'm missing somewhere I may have stated incorrectly the Alt Forum was about hardware, please provide a link.

No, please, YOU provide a link to where I stated that you stated the Alt Forum was about hardware? I was referring to the General forum!

Quote:

Oh, so somewhere I stated General only is for hardware? I don't believe so.

Uh, look at sentence of yours that you yourself quoted above!

Quote:

the current 'Alt Amiga' is for operating system discussion, not for hardware.

You said that in reference to me saying that the arguments that can now be talked in the Alt amiga forum were already perfectly allowed in the General section. Logic says that your reply means that the General section is for harware only. Otherwise tell me why did you mention hardware at all.

Quote:

And the only 'real' issue I see as of yet not answered at this point, which you've brought up again after I responded to, is the issue of threads showing on the front page or not. I answered that as honestly as I could (I stated I don't know what we'll do yet, and yes, it's an issue because of the site's predominantly OS4 users and priority, but are looking into options), yet you asked it again.

That answer just. Simply. Makes. No. Sense.

You're saying that AROS has been put off the front page because the site is AOS4 inclined, yet today I could start a thread about Windows and have it displayed on the front page, together with lots of other things that have absolutely no relation to AOS4.

That. Just. Makes. No. Sense.

Cheers.

_________________
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary
system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
~~ Henry Ford

Quote:

Oh pal, look, I don't really have the time and will to go through your whole post when I already see that you grossly misunderstand what you read.

Ok, 'pal,' and it likewise seems the same from here, no matter how many times now it's been explained. So sorry it's not to your own personal satisfaction. You've made statements without backing them up, simply referring to 'you said this...somewhere.' I tried to clarify for you, in the event you were interested in the content and response rather than playing smeantic games, but you've now shown otherwise. Sorry you don't understand the comments regarding General vs Alt, or that forums are created specifically for a need or direct interest of users on the site, and just what does, or does not, fall into those categories. I tried, and seems like most others now 'get it.'

So sorry your seeming inability to understand. Any other questions that you have, please feel free to PM, as this news item will be sliding off the news page shortly, or in the event you may want to actually try to _contribute_ something, feel free to do so in the front page poll on this very same subject.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!