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Software News   Software News : AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
   posted by Rogue on 14-Jul-2006 16:43:05 (9240 reads)
There is a new article on the AmigaOS new memory system online on os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz.
Read it at os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz
    

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Helge 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 18:44:29
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2006
Posts: 689
From: Norway

Yes, Ami603. I see it now. You're right. My mistake....


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Helge 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 18:47:20
#22 ]
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Joined: 10-Jul-2006
Posts: 689
From: Norway

Well, everybody. There was a long time since i was at school and i did have some algebra. Math was never my strenght, but rather a weakness to me. Sorry to disappoint you all...


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drHirudo 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 18:52:29
#23 ]
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Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1113
From: Sofia

Quote:
Of course we should by now alredy know that there are no other specialists but Hyperion, and also that the world is black and white and... yada yada... :-p

Seems the first specialist is already here! Next.


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Jorge 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 19:10:59
#24 ]
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Joined: 20-Oct-2003
Posts: 657
From: Scottsdale, AZ

I know that "virtual mem" does not mean swapping per se, but so doesn't "memory mapped files". However, the articel mentioned swapping beeing available at some point (which I think is a good thing - especially if you have some kind of control over it).

A memory mapped file would be just another "plugin" which would work simialr to a swaped memory, except, that, e.g. the app would customize a file on disk and "declare" it as memory. What you can do then is, instead of loading data from it, you simply "memcpy" from there and the DOS/mem system takes care of the rest (more like a swapped memory). This has various benefits over a file system in the way, you do not need to collect a ton of files, but have one big chunk and it is transparent to the memory and therefore less complicated to use then e.g. file I/O.


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Fransexy 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 20:24:35
#25 ]
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From: Elche (Alicante), spain

With the time and new techniques Windows becomes slower and bigger and AmigaOS becomes faster and more compact AmigaOS is like good wines, with the time becomes better and Windows is like bad wines, with the time becomes vinegar


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BobC. 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 20:33:16
#26 ]
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Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 556
From: Mid Atlantic State USA

@Rogue

Thanks for the continuing effort
AND
for letting us know about it!


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nzv58l 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 20:45:31
#27 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Oct-2003
Posts: 1640
From: Michigan

Very interesting read. I hope they are not giving up any trade secretes, is this type of memory management unique to OS4 on the Amiga?

Nice to have some good news. I think the swap part is going to be gathering dust most of the time, unless you start working with multimedia files(Mpgs and such).

So when do we mortals get to try it out? I know, when it's done!

Nice to see the progress. Keep up the great work, can't say enough!

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falemagn 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 21:09:22
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:
dos.library allowing you to "allocate" a mem image from disk ?) That would be great.


That would be a sure way to fill up the address space, since AmigaOS has only one, shared by all tasks. And if we're talking about little files, then you'd not have any advantage over simply loading them to memory, and the effect would be the same.


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Jorge 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 21:21:59
#29 ]
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Joined: 20-Oct-2003
Posts: 657
From: Scottsdale, AZ

Quote:
That would be a sure way to fill up the address space, since AmigaOS has only one, shared by all tasks. And if we're talking about little files, then you'd not have any advantage over simply loading them to memory, and the effect would be the same.


First, this is not new and other OSs can handle that. And second, one could simply free that mem again after usage. "Filling up 4GB" would mean multiple apps doing that thing at the same time, not releasing the mem again, which I doubt will happen.

Also, it would be an _additional_ feature (ever heard about a .pak file?). Nobody forces anyone to use it (and I understand the same would apply for swap space - as long as you can switch that off).

About the speed concerns and virtual mem space. AFAIK the current implementation does that already, but the allocator has been changed. One question isn't answered, though. Is the PUBMEM block now gone ? I think so, isn't it ?


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falemagn 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 21:34:05
#30 ]
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Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Quote:
First, this is not new and other OSs can handle that.


Other OSs have multiple address spaces, that's how they can deal with it.

Quote:

And second, one could simply free that mem again after usage.


I think you're missing the point of mmap'ing a file.

Memory mapping a file is useful when you want to let the OS handle for you the buffering at the lowest possible level, while still being able to access the file as if it were loaded totally into memory. This is useful mostly for huge files, as little files can be loaded directly into memory without wasting too much time during the process. Loading a 1GB file into memory, on the other hand, would cost swap space and time.

A mmap'ed file is like a swap file created on demand.

Quote:
"Filling up 4GB" would mean multiple apps doing that thing at the same time, not releasing the mem again, which I doubt will happen.


No, it would mean mmap'ing a DVD ISO, for instance.

Quote:
Also, it would be an _additional_ feature (ever heard about a .pak file?). Nobody forces anyone to use it (and I understand the same would apply for swap space - as long as you can switch that off).


I just said that it wouldn't be useful, given the other limitations.

More useful would be a C++ class which let you access a file via an overloaded [] operator, mimicing a mmapped file, without the problems of a mmapped files.


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ikir 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 21:34:24
#31 ]
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Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5647
From: Italy

@Hyperion and OS4 Devs

A BIG THANK YOU... now release an update 5 please


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miksuh 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 21:59:43
#32 ]
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 731
From: Espoo, Finland

That's very interesting article.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 22:26:32
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3513
From: Unknown

Yeah!

Something happening!!!


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AmigaBlitter 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 22:33:57
#34 ]
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3513
From: Unknown

@falemagn

Multiple address space can be the next goal?


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FuZion 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 23:23:59
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Nov-2003
Posts: 1962
From: Birmingham, England

It sounds neat but these memory articles almost always blow my mind. I hear a "whoosh" just above my head but that's all I get.

Still, nice one Hyperion et al.

FuZion.

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Zardoz 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 14-Jul-2006 23:48:06
#36 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

That would require memory protection.


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Rogue 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 15-Jul-2006 0:21:53
#37 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Quote:
Thank you for the well written and informative update.


Can't take credit for it, the article was written by Thomas ;)


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EntilZha 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 15-Jul-2006 0:24:01
#38 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 27-Aug-2003
Posts: 1679
From: The Jedi Academy, Yavin 4

Quote:
Even more impressive is that it says when booting up Workbench with this new memory system, it should be using less than 2KB in all!!! That's pretty much awesome!


Uhm, no, at the time of workbench boot, there's already 40000 allocations of 2KB or less each...


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Rogue 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 15-Jul-2006 0:26:01
#39 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Quote:
That would require memory protection.


Actually, no. It would require separate address spaces. It will mess up pretty badly when someone writes into another one's address space, but that is already the case now. It does in no way require memory protection.


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Helge 
Re: AmigaOS 4.0 new memory system revisited
Posted on 15-Jul-2006 0:26:19
#40 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2006
Posts: 689
From: Norway

Like i said Enthza, math is my weakness...But you know these stuffs much better than i do..


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