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Amigaworld.net News   Amigaworld.net News : Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
   posted by DaveyD on 20-Jul-2003 9:33:15 (2965 reads)
Session 15 of the Fortnightly Questions and Answers sessions with Amiga's Chief Technology Officer Fleecy Moss are now online.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/fleecymoss/
    

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The_Editor 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 9:41:39
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7628
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

Nice to see Fleecy is still answering questions considering the crap people have been aiming at him.


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unclecurio 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 9:49:12
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2003
Posts: 411
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

It's really good to hear that the audio issue is going to be properly addressed at last. The single biggest problem for computer musicians is that of latency. A system like that which Fleecy is suggesting could really help to wipe that problem out. Add to that, the lower cooling requirements of PPC and, hopefully, drivers for quality soundcards and the platform could begin to look quite appealing for pro audio work.

That said, we're going to need some pretty hot software to take advantage of this - Bars&Pipes PPC would be a start......


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Seer 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 9:54:53
#3 ]
Team Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2003
Posts: 3725
From: The Netherlands

The 64 bit AmigaOS implementation has always been a target, since we will be able to implement orthogonal persistence much more easily than on a 32 bit platform

orthogonal persistence ?? What's that ?


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ikir 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 11:02:39
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5646
From: Italy

Good Fleecy


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ohno 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 11:52:13
#5 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Jun-2003
Posts: 149
From: The Netherlands

If I'm not mistaken it basically means your data lives longer than your program (it is persistent) so basically your program state is kept. Objects, threads, and tasks will be persistent which will keep them save from shut-downs and crashes. So developers no longer have to store data into a database or file themselves. They just create an object, which they can keep on using. When the computer is restarted the program immediatly has access to that object that was created before the computer was restarted

Theoritically you wouldn't need to save documents you type in your word-processor, since their state is kept and you can roll-back to previous versions if you'd like. This would mean the filesystem is pretty database alike.

You can compare it with PDA's. Once you start them up they immediatly start up to where you left them (because they use persistent memory that keeps the information even when the device is turned off).

I've been playing with object prevalence in java, which works about the same way. You create an object and just use it like any other object. When you restart the program you immediatly have access to that object again.

Regards,

Onno

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herewegoagain 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 12:36:18
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

Quote:
A few third parties have also contacted us about creating their own case designs so expect to see quite a bit of choice.


Cool... Wonder which third party companies? I think the AmigaOne-Lite should be called AmigaOne-LE (lite edition) or AmigaOne-ME (micro edition). Oh well, just a though.

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Anonymous 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 13:42:02
# ]



Quote:
orthogonal persistence ?? What's that ?


See this link:
http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=020

 
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Jose 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 19:17:08
#8 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 934
From: Unknown

Doesn't orthogonal persistance rely on data being constantly save to HD? Won't that short it's lifetime?


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Jose 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 19:18:40
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 934
From: Unknown

"...we have to be careful not to turn AmigaOS4 into something else. POSIX, for example was created for very specific reasons, reasons that don't map one hundred percent onto the AmigaOS."

This is VERY nice to hear.
If I wanted POSIX compliance and all that I'd have switched platform for Linux or one of it's flavours for ages...Not that I don't use it though.


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Jose 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 20-Jul-2003 19:32:40
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 934
From: Unknown

"With hindsight, we'd have started the AmigaOS4.0 project straight away..."

This is also very nice to hear. BUt I wonder what the reason was for leaving it, and get back to it.
Ok, I'll shut up and put some questions in the next Q&A.


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CodeSmith 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 21-Jul-2003 1:57:59
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

Quote:
The voucher scheme is refundable against an AmigaOne (which is the Amiga certified Eyetech board and an OEM copy of AmigaOS that runs natively on it) so if you buy it a year after it comes out, then yes, you can claim the refund.

I hope that will help silence those who are still screaming "fraud" about the $50 coupon thing. The conditions for the refund to happen (purchasing an AmigaOne and AmigaOS 4) cannot be met yet, so there is nothing to refund yet.

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Anonymous 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 21-Jul-2003 7:44:54
# ]



Quote:
Doesn't orthogonal persistance rely on data being constantly save to HD? Won't that short it's lifetime?


Not really, and no.

Orthagonal persistance in theory and practice isn't the same. essentially it wouldn't save it all the time, what it would do is hold the current cached copy in memory where the changes to the file would be made and periodically those differences would be saved to HD. That is one way to implement a Orthagonal persistance system.
However the above still means you lose some data if the system goes down between refreshes.
Not a problem if your memory isn't volatile, in which case you'd use some form of non-volatile ram which would act as a cache for O.P. Data.
When O.P. data is being used it resides in this "cache" and is periodically written to the HD, when you finish with it, it's removed from the "cache" and written to the HD. If the system crashes in between, when it comes back up the last state the data was in will still be there in the cache and can be checked with the current copy on HD, saved to HD and/or continued editing.
You could implement an O.P. model which would save to the HD continually, but that would completely destroy the computers performance.

 
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Robert 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 21-Jul-2003 23:01:28
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 873
From: Glasgow

Quote:
It's really good to hear that the audio issue is going to be properly addressed at last. The single biggest problem for computer musicians is that of latency. A system like that which Fleecy is suggesting could really help to wipe that problem out. Add to that, the lower cooling requirements of PPC and, hopefully, drivers for quality soundcards and the platform could begin to look quite appealing for pro audio work.


As someone who uses his A1200 almost exclusively for audio work, I completely agree. Hopefully this can be addressed sooner, rather than later.

Quote:
That said, we're going to need some pretty hot software to take advantage of this - Bars&Pipes PPC would be a start......


Octamed! ahhhh............

Cheers,
Robert.
(from my shiny new A1!)


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Jose 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 22-Jul-2003 3:28:26
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 934
From: Unknown

@entropy

now that makes much more sense than all that abstract read on some Java site.


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RobertDupuy 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 22-Jul-2003 15:14:02
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2003
Posts: 125
From: Unknown

If only I could believe any of it!

Because it sounds like they are headed in the right direction...a solid plan, one that benefits their customers and will result in revenue for themselves.

Unfortunately, I don't believe it, and I'm not kidding.

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BobC. 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 22-Jul-2003 15:24:40
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 556
From: Mid Atlantic State USA

An other nice session.. Begining to sound like a real system, eh?

Thanks Fleecy........and AmigaWorld.


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asian 
Re: Fortnightly Q&A with Fleecy Moss - Session 15
Posted on 22-Jul-2003 17:01:41
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2003
Posts: 336
From: Unknown

>Orthogonal Persistence

Hello
IMO the only way to reach OP is using Motorola's MRAM
(Magenetic RAM). They said that MRAM will be available in
2003, however I NEVER heard about motherboard using
MRAM, instead of the ordinary volatile DRAM.

Another leading edge technology for OP: nanotechnology
that involve "electron spin" direction for data storage.
But IMO the research will take another 10 years.

I know several old Seagate 8 Inch IPI Ramdisk for mainframe
with battery backup. If the power is cut suddenly, the Ramdisk
is stored inside a hard disk. When the power is resumed,
the hard disk data is copied to ramdisk.

There is also an old internal UPS ISA card inside PC that
can store data automatically to hard disk. I never see
a PCI version.

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