Thanks!

I read that some Amiga Format Cover CDs has the MUI 3.8 keyfile, and the question what issues? and it is legal because there isn't other way to get a keyfile for OS3.x

Is there a partucular reason for the version bump to 5? Or is it just because of being too used to copycatfrom MorphOS?

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Eh, OK...? Well, as long as everyone understands that this isn't MUI5... Which some people won't understand. Since it's called MUI5...





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@TRIPOS

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Well, as long as everyone understands that this isn't MUI5...

It is only MUI5 available for AmigaOS...

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It is only MUI5 available for AmigaOS...

Like releasing MorphOS for the Pegasos2 in 2004 as "AmigaOS4", saying "it is only AmigaOS4 available for Pegasos". Same thing, sans the mark registration.

@TRIPOS

Looking at your comments (and other comments at morph.zone), this news hurts many members of MorphOS community, why? Better MUI on all platforms is good for everyone.

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Better MUI on all platforms is good for everyone.

2004, after MorphOS was released by Genesi as AmigaOS4 for Pegasos2: "What's the problem, why are you raising your eyebrows, better AmigaOS4 on all platforms is good for everyone", right?

MorphOS and OS4 is not the same thing, and this "MUI" is not the same thing as the MUI.

Should have used a different name.

Really.

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@TRIPOS

Well, both MUI share the same source history... unlike MorphOS (I don´t believe rumours about stolen AmigaOS code in MorphOS ).

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Should have used a different name.

As I see your pain I agree MUI name was chosen right.

@TRIPOS

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and this "MUI" is not the same thing as the MUI.

Please tell us what are the difference between "this" MUI5 and the other MUI5

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@samo79

MorphOS and OS4 analogy again then, since it's about the same situation. they have the same purpose, aim for the same users and developers, they share the same origin in some deprecated Amiga 3.1 API, but from that common point they have both evolved in different directions ever since. A user could even today use either one of them without much trouble because they are similar enough at a shallow level, but they are not directly interchangeable since development decisions in the past took them both in different directions about what happens under the hood. Some applications written for the first will not run out of the box on the second. This is the natural outcome of forks and long enough development along different paths, in different directions.

Calling MorphOS AmigaOS4 for Pegasos would be misleading, since MorphOS and OS4 are not the same things(Same with real MUI vs. this FrankenMUI.

I have no problems with Zune whatsoever. Same goals as FrankenMUI; reimplementation of real MUI. But with a name of its own, to avoid the deliberate confusion sought by the serial copyright-violators behind this project.

@TRIPOS

You analogy would be fine only if MorphOS uses stolen (or "acquired") AmigaOS code...

There is clear difference between "fork" and "clone" based on source code (fork) or only API (clone) heritage. MUI5 for AmigaOS is fork of MorphOS MUI branch, MorphOS is clone of AmigaOS.

@pavlor
Of Amiga OS 3.1 like AmigaOS4

Last edited by Templario on 31-Aug-2016 at 08:44 AM.

One problem is that this is based on a 2006 beta version of MUI 4.0, developed by the original author of MUI (Stefan Stuntz) that was accidently leaked (or purposly stolen, who can tell?). And he was not at all happy with this leak, and not happy that they released "MUI4 for AmigaOS" in the first place.

What made him really annoyed was that they had removed the need for a keyfile. But since Stefan isn't that interested in Amiga stuff anymore but prefer to go extreme bicycling instead he told them to add the need for a real MUI keyfile and he would leave them alone. Which they did. And the rest of the MorphOS Team decided not to persue the matter either, even though they are the legit developers of MUI.

Problem 1: it's based on unauthorised code without the uncontested developers consent or blessing. How is this in any way OK?

Next is that it copies the name of the real MUI4 (yes, REAL MUI4) in order to make it sound like it's on par with MorphOS MUI. This is confusing and since these developers didn't want to change the name MorphOS Team felt that they had to, and bumped the version number to 5 so that people could easily spot the difference.

And now they have themselves bumped their version number to 5 (for no apparent reason) and therefore reintroduced the confusion MorphOS Team wanted to avoid.

Why is this a problem?

Because these two MUI:s are incompatible. They also changed the version numbers of various parts making it difficult to cross compile. But mostly in one direction. It's, interestingly, easier to port software from MorphOS to AmigaOS than the other way around (according to several developers). I have no idea if this is done intentionally, but not seperating the names will give people the wrong impression that they are basically the same, or at least that this version strives to be compatible with MorphOS MUI. Which it seemingly doesn't.

Problem 2: having two different products sharing the exact same name is confusing.

Problem 3: these two MUI:s are not compatible with each other, making the identical naming scheme outright misleading.

If this is a major thing that deserves lenghty threads of condemnation or not is apparently in the eye of the beholder (remember that the original author is not OK with it, but can't be bothered anymore), but people should at least be able to agree that this is not OK. Not in the sense of "burn the witches!" or "die, motherf*ckers, die!" but in a sober sense of "guys, this is not OK, really. Don't do that." I think that would be enough.

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@Yasu

So, original author of MUI decided to tolerate this MUI fork. Enough for me.

MorphOS developers could solve this problem years ago by allowing ports of newer MUI to other platforms. But they wanted advantage over competition... Now MorphOS users cry porting from MorphOS to AmigaOS is easier than the other way around. Really amusing.

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Problem 2: having two different products sharing the exact same name is confusing.

Confusion? MUI5 fork we discuss here is the only MUI5 available for AmigaOS.

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but people should at least be able to agree that this is not OK

Of course it is not OK. In ideal world, there would be only one MUI for all platforms. But we don´t live in ideal world, so we have two more or less compatible MUI forks and another MUI clone (Zune).

Last edited by pavlor on 31-Aug-2016 at 09:45 AM.

Wait what? How is this in any way MorphOS Teams fault?

And what should Stuntz have done? Sue them?

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"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

Jens just confirmed in a German forum once more that they copy'n pasted "parts of the MorphOS autodocs [...] in good faith and assuming it was okay, given the desire for a reunification of the various Amiga camps".

Well, the MorphOS developers do not think it was okay - and they're completely entitled to this opinion. Which leaves Jens and Thore with one single option: Rewrite the documentation from scratch - which they're refusing to do, for at least 1.5 years now.

How anybody can pretend that this is proper baheviour and demand that those damn bitching MorphOS users should retreat to morph.zone with their "MorphOS butthurt" (a.org quote) is completely beyond me.

@cgutjahr

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How anybody can pretend that this is proper baheviour and demand that those damn bitching MorphOS users should retreat to morph.zone with their "MorphOS butthurt" (a.org quote) is completely beyond me.

Compare header files in MorphOS and AmigaOS SDK and then judge.

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Compare header files in MorphOS and AmigaOS SDK and then judge.

I did and found nothing to complain about. What's that got to do with anything?