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Amigaworld.net News   Amigaworld.net News : Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
   posted by amigakit on 14-Jan-2017 13:42:32 (11631 reads)
Alain Thellier has released a new version of Cow3D which now has support for Warp3D Nova.

The latest version 6 is available to download on Aminet.

Cow3D is a benchmarking and testing tool for 3D on the Amiga. It also supports the older Warp3D and Warz3D software renderer.

Alain has included the Shader source code in the package for Warp3D Nova which is the first 3D software to support modern Shaders on AmigaOS. Now users have the ability to compare and contrast between old fixed pipeline 3D systems such as Warp3D and the new modern Warp3D Nova.

    

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klx300r 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 16-Jan-2017 19:44:43
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3770
From: Toronto, Canada

@ earlygrey


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Hans 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 17-Jan-2017 1:22:59
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@Lokaty
Quote:

How it is possible almost three times faster graphics card returns result only 51 fps more than weaker gpu? It's problem of Cow3D benchamrk, CPU or something else??

Performance is affected by multiple factors. There are multiple potential bottlenecks: CPU power, PCIe transfer rates, GPU power, GPU texel-rate, etc. With Cow3D PCIe transfer rates appear to be the major bottleneck. I've already commented on this a few times, so scroll back to my previous posts.

The GPU's speed can limit Cow3D's performance if you use a rather low-end GPU. As you move to faster GPUs, eventually the GPU is faster than the CPU can feed it commands. At that point, doubling the GPU's performance only means that the GPU is twiddling its thumbs more while it awaits instructions.

Hans


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Hans 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 17-Jan-2017 9:16:07
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@all
Just discovered that Cow3D's fps counter measures *all* operations, including rendering the line of text at the top containing the fps counter. Text is currently rendered in software, and so involves RAM=>VRAM transfers (CPU-based because it's line segments which are usually too small to use DMA on). This could explain some of the results.

So the fps counter does *not* measure purely the Warp3D/Nova performance; it's skewed by the relatively-slow text rendering done afterward (and all other operations).

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 17-Jan-2017 at 09:17 AM.


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pvanni 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 17-Jan-2017 11:02:43
#44 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2003
Posts: 470
From: Lecco, Italy

AmigaOne X1000 Radeon R7 250X AmigaOS 4.1 FE Upd 1

coW3D6-os4 170 fps
coW3D6-os4-Nova 470 fps

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Crisot 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 17-Jan-2017 18:29:26
#45 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Jan-2004
Posts: 163
From: France

Hey!

So cool! Glad to see Nova is on the very good way, Warp3D working quite well on moderns GPU, etc... etc... etc...!

EDIT: See you already answered the question (about important performances differences between X1000/X5000 on same GPU). Still curious, the informations to send every frames should be *very* limited for any PCI-E

With a much more detailed object, the difference may be less significant.

Very great job! You did it!

Last edited by Crisot on 17-Jan-2017 at 08:11 PM.
Last edited by Crisot on 17-Jan-2017 at 06:29 PM.


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Hans 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 17-Jan-2017 23:36:53
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@Crisot
Quote:
EDIT: See you already answered the question (about important performances differences between X1000/X5000 on same GPU). Still curious, the informations to send every frames should be *very* limited for any PCI-E

The length of the command sequences sent to the GPU is longer than you think. However, as I discovered yesterday the fps calculations include the time taken to render the fps counter and info bar at the top of the window (plus whatever else the computer is doing). That increases the amount of PCIe bandwidth used per frame.

Hans


_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Lokaty 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 18-Jan-2017 6:44:46
#47 ]
New Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2010
Posts: 6
From: Poland

@Hans

Thank you for clarifying. Hope after implementation in AmigaOS4 second core support you can extend driver performance in W3DNova in the future. Meantime I think there is no sense buying something more powerful than R7 265 (or maybe is but Cow3D need some improvements to prove it - hope Alain do this... ).

Cheers Guys!

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Hypex 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 18-Jan-2017 14:17:28
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10831
From: Greensborough, Australia

What is the histoty of the cow program I wonder? Nothing in relation to the cow object as made famous by Imagine? Inspired no?

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PR 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 18-Jan-2017 22:31:14
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1959
From: Suomi-Finland

XE , 9250 Showoff, 40fps

Now can we buy the usefull proggies.

Fast pc 60. How is that possible..

Last edited by PR on 19-Jan-2017 at 12:08 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 19-Jan-2017 23:04:05
#50 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1196
From: Unknown

@Amigo1

OS 4.1.7 was never released, so...

Quote:
AmigaOS 4.1 FE (no update 1, so 4.1.7)


..."OS 4.1 FE" is really 4.1.8, and...

Quote:
AmigaOS 4.1 FEUpd1 (with update 1, so "4.1.8")


..."4.1 FEUpd1" is really 4.1.9.

Just so you know!

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 19-Jan-2017 23:14:43
#51 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1196
From: Unknown

@Hans

Quote:
The GPU's speed can limit Cow3D's performance if you use a rather low-end GPU. As you move to faster GPUs, eventually the GPU is faster than the CPU can feed it commands. At that point, doubling the GPU's performance only means that the GPU is twiddling its thumbs more while it awaits instructions.


A fact that I think some people around here should meditate a bit over.

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Hans 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 4:44:07
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4985
From: New Zealand

@Lokaty
Quote:
Thank you for clarifying. Hope after implementation in AmigaOS4 second core support you can extend driver performance in W3DNova in the future. Meantime I think there is no sense buying something more powerful than R7 265 (or maybe is but Cow3D need some improvements to prove it - hope Alain do this... ).

Not necessarily. Cow3D is but one test under specific conditions. Plus, I've discovered that rendering the fps counter & info-bar is skewing the results significantly. Have a look here for my comments and a modified test: https://keasigmadelta.com/blog/warp3d-novas-performance-boost-partially-hidden-by-lazy-cow

Hans


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KimmoK 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 7:48:57
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5210
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

"Good" that we do not have games like oolite yet for AOS4, I might be forced sell my car and upgrade my Amiga HW.


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kamelito 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 7:49:23
#54 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 795
From: Unknown

@Hans
As the GPU goes faster the CPU at one time would not be fast enough and the GPU will wait for commands. If the CPU is slower than GPU but is say bi-core, if AmigaOS support multicore and if Nova driver use this feature then the slower CPU will be able to send more commands and so the GPU will work more and so you'll get better performance, right?
Kamelito
Ps it could be the case for the A1222 maybe...

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kamelito 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 7:54:45
#55 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 795
From: Unknown

How about OpenGL Elite 2 and MElite?
Kamelito

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khayoz 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 8:23:06
#56 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2004
Posts: 216
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@Hans
First of all thank you for all the work you put into Warp3DNova and the great tutorials you have written on Kea Sigma Delta.

I'll test the new(your version) Cow3d and post the results later today when I'm in front of my X5000.


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thellier 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 9:05:05
#57 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2009
Posts: 261
From: Paris

Thanks Hans for Nova, your support and enhancing my little prog cow3D

>What is the histoty of the cow program I wonder? Nothing in relation to the cow object as made famous by Imagine? Inspired no?

In fact it all began with a small GL program I made "starship" that show how to use glDrawElements to draw simply & efficiently a 3D object
This program was ported to Warp3D
But as the object was small it couldnt serve as benchmark so I found in my A4040 harddrive this cow object that was coming from a lightwawe viewer i think

Then I added a simple texture to make it looks like an "Aubrac cow" a very old & rustic race that come from montaneous France where my family come from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrac_cattle

Note that I textured it with female cow colors as the more impressive bull dont have the same shape so will have need an other 3d model :


https://www.google.fr/search?q=taureau+aubrac+prim%C3%A9&biw=1185&bih=811&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwju8pvXrdDRAhUGWRQKHaXHAioQ_AUIBigB#tbm=isch&q=taureau+aubrac

Alain Thellier

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khayoz 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 11:40:53
#58 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2004
Posts: 216
From: Stockholm, Sweden

AmigaOne X5000,R9 280X
Hans version of Cow3d

CoW3D6-NoInfoBar-os4
391fps

CoW3D6-NoInfoBar-os4-Nova
1399fps


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kas1e 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 14:22:55
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3536
From: Russia

@Hans
Its totaly out of cow3d-topic, but still w3d related: maybe you know, is there anyone who works on the minigl.library stub, so it will use w3d nova ? I mean, just to boost all the minigl apps we have already on os4depot. Maybe aeon, or daniel ?:)


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kamelito 
Re: Cow3D V6 for Warp3D Nova
Posted on 20-Jan-2017 16:31:58
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 795
From: Unknown

@Hans
>"because the CPU writes the data to VRAM rather than getting the GPU to fetch it using DMA (would love to fix this, but it'll take time)"

Any idea of what gain will we get from doing it through DMA?
I guess that you've no timeframe for that to happen, what are the difficulties to use DMA Instead of CPU. In "classic" chipset using DMA was easy :).
Kamelito

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