Its just struck me that the 104 PC Keyboard that's commonly (apart from 105 etc) used with the A1 lacks a 'Help' Key such as the classic Ami Keyboard had to the right of the 'BackSpace' Key! I looked over a Mac-IIsi k/b and it had 'Help' shared (shifted?) on what, on the 104 PC K/b, would be labeled 'Insert' (right of the 'BackSpace').

Any chance of AmigaOS4 having access to a 'Help' Key function?

_________________
-vortexau, who's A1 XE-G4 remains at half-RAM !
A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

@vortexau

Or, how about giving a real purpose in life to the "/Print Screen/SysRq" or "Scroll Lock" keys (other than to emulate propietary 1970s vintage IBM terminals) ?

Regards,
JCC

@JCC

the print screen one is useful.
what about giving that to the windows key???

i think that there should be a preference to set different tasks to the (lets call it a function key) to make it a shortcut

here are some examples
- open workbench
- help
- toggle screens
- start favourite programs

what do people think?

cheers
niceguy1979

@niceguy1979
. . . and (speaking of those other keys) apart from programmers using that Pause/Break Key; could ordinary users have it function as a Coffee/Break key?

_________________
-vortexau, who's A1 XE-G4 remains at half-RAM !
A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

A towered A1200 I once had the key between ctrl and windows keys on the right side of the spacebar (I think it's called menu key or something like that but I'm not sure) functioned as the Help key. In my opinion that was a quite logical choice for a help-key replacement.

The A1200 I now have has it remapped Insert, which IMO isn't intuitive at all.

@niceguy1979
Quote:

the print screen one is useful. what about giving that to the windows key???

Sure, I could go with that.

Quote:

i think that there should be a preference to set different tasks to the (lets call it a function key) to make it a shortcut

Good idea, and vortexau could have a Coffee Break key - also a good idea.

Keep the ideas flowing ...
JCC

@niceguy1979

You can already toggle screens with left amiga+m. Left amiga+n brings up the Workbench screen.
Quote:

i think that there should be a preference to set different tasks to the (lets call it a function key) to make it a shortcut

I'm quite sure there already is such a program.

[edit]
It's called FKey and it's a WBStartup commodity.

@vortexau

Good Eye! I wonder if Hyperion are looking at this going ... Hey, we forgot about the Help key... Oh well, I geuss we'll have to delay the release of OS 4 until we fix that one. Anyone got any ideas? --Just kidding.

For the rest of the reply's: I am all for configurability. I like flexibility and a key map to function utility would be great!

@salass00

Ugh, no. I hate it there. When my A1200 was towered, the WinMenu key was mapped to HELP and I kept hitting it. It's a bloody stupid place for it, you need a modifier key there which won't cause damage if hit accidentally.

There are quite a few more logical places found on the average PC keyboard that would be more suited to HELP. One of PrtScr or Pause/Break would be ideal - well out of the way and neither of those keys has any actual meaning in Amiga terms at the moment.

One of the reasons I was going to get a Mac keyboard was because it has a HELP key and the layout is much more Amiga-like. I'm still hoping to get one, but I want to be sure that it will work on the AmigaOne before I splash out - has anybody here tried a new USB Mac keyboard on the AmigaOne? Does it work? Will it work in OS4?

And is anybody going to ever produce any decent official AmigaOne keyboards?

Chris

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

@Chris_Y

What program are you using where the HELP key causes damage?

I think the menukey is good as you won't necessarily have to replace the key as the symbol that's on it already seems to make sense for that .

@salass00

Quote:

What program are you using where the HELP key causes damage?

Erm, maybe "damage" was the wrong word

What I meant was when typing away, it is easy to hit instead of RShift or RAmiga, and I have done this several times myself. What then happens is the AmigaGuide for the current application pops up on screen and you have to close it. It is better to have HELP well out of the way as it isn't needed unless you need, um, help. The WinMenu key is in a position which is better suited to a key which is needed during normal typing. I'm not quite sure what possessed Microsoft's designers to make that the standard place for a key that emulates the right mouse button (and, let's face it, if the UI was designed to be keyboard navigable then such a key is only useful if you have a one-button mouse, which I'm guessing no Win95 users actually had, at least none that would have also bought a new keyboard)

You're right about the symbol though, but I need to put stickers over the WinLogo keys so I may as well modify some other key at the same time. If you want it there, at least tell me I can use a Mac USB keyboard

Chris

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

@Chris_Y

this is for everyone to consider not just Chris_Y....why are we talking RAmiga this RAmiga that...lets face it, the keyboards that we should all be using are the standard (CHEAP) windows keyboards that the world is used to
what is the point on having keys that don't work.
i'm sure linux uses all the standard keys, so why shouldn't OS4

there should be a concerted effort from people to come up with sensible uses for all those keys.( the menu key too)

niceguy1979

:)

@niceguy1979

Unless I'm missing something, the WinMenu key isn't doing anything in Linux here. There is no reason why, in OS4, it can't be used like the Function keys, and be assigned a task via a commodity or application.

I don't see Pause/Break having any use on the Amiga, so why is it any different using that as HELP rather than WinMenu?

Hopefully OS4 will come with a keymap editor so we can put the HELP key where we like

Or maybe somebody will answer my Mac keyboard query in a positive way, or bringing out an official custom AmigaOne keyboard (either case resulting in me not caring where HELP is on PC keyboards)

Chris

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

@Chris_Y

I don't know the layout and keyset of the Apple keyboard, but I could forsee a problem in using one. The defacto standard for AOne-alikes will be the Windows keyboard.

Whether it is a good or bad thing, programmers will tend to use all of the available keys and any functions that do not map to the Apple keyset will be unavailable. This also applies to using lovely old Amiga keyboards. For instance, my A4000 has ten function keys and my AOne has twelve.

I plan to continue with my IBM+Windows keyboard, but I plan to cover the proprietary and registered trademark symbols with the appropriate 'A' symbols (which are not trademarks, AFAIK).

Regards
Roy Leith

Having the PC Key/b standard allows for the possibility of substituting OTHER fancy PC Key/bs for certain requirements-


BigKeys LX
For those with the shakes, or large hands!
alternate BigKeys LX keytop layouts and colours

The Microsoft keyboard, with the major key groups shaded to show their locations.

This is a Reference on Keyboard Key Groupings on the PC Keyboard

various Ergonomic Keyboards


The Comfort Keyboard comes in 3 sections; is fully remappable; and can include an optional foot pedal.



OrbiTouch Review: A Keyless Keyboard

How to clean your computer keyboard

_________________
-vortexau, who's A1 XE-G4 remains at half-RAM !
A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

@Chris_Y

Interestingly enough, on my setup the Menu key makes the Afterstep menu pop up

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@royleith

I don't think that is a problem, there aren't any less keys on Mac keyboards just a couple of differently labelled ones. It may require a few minor changes to the keymap but nothing significant - certainly there will be no chance of keys not being available, you just need to map them somewhere.

"Classic" Amiga keyboards are a different matter though, and I do foresee problems with these.

Chris

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

i've worked with visually impared (blind) students and taught them to touch type using speech software and dual controls so i can help them while sitting next to them.
would it be possible to get a similar dual control system for the new A1s?

you could not only use this for educational purposes, but you could play games without having to huddle around the same keyboard

maybe 2 USB keyboards would be possible.....you could even have dual monitors and have the A1 as a kind of server for the game...what about having dual desktops with dual monitors and keyboards? you could then have machines (for education) where they could work in groups

i'm sure eyetech would like this idea as it also saves money on electricity (which as Alan was talking about is their big selling point in Japan)

@vortexau

As Amiga keyboards only have 10 function keys and PC keyboards have 12, why not just map F11 or F12 to the 'Help' function?

_________________
Tony T.

People who generalize are always wrong.


1989 - 500 / 1991 - 3000 / 1997 - Genesis Flyer 1200T / 2003 - A1XE

@syrtran

Too easy