@Atheist

Quote:

jkirk wrote: @Atheist don't start this again atheist. Quote: Hi jkirk, Okay, when THEY stop.

Back to your hole, and I said it now!
Or, more precisly.. wasn't there a thread* done *specifically* for the purpose of *you* discussing such kind of ramblings?

* a thread which was by itself already moderated down, just for your own sake

'They made me do it'
Donnie Darko

Last edited by pixie on 08-Sep-2006 at 04:25 PM.
Last edited by pixie on 08-Sep-2006 at 03:28 PM.
Last edited by pixie on 08-Sep-2006 at 03:24 PM.
Last edited by pixie on 08-Sep-2006 at 03:19 PM.

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@saimo

It doesn't matter wether you meant "trustable" or "reliable", as Ainc is neither, not even when compared to Genesi ......

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@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @saimo It doesn't matter wether you meant "trustable" or "reliable", as Ainc is neither, not even when compared to Genesi ......

My argument was much more complex than just replacing a word with another; in fact, it was about a different point than the one - like gary_c - you are trying to shift the attention to - i.e. a flamefest titled "Genesi vs AInc: who's worse?".

saimo

edit: replaced "articulated" with "complex".

Last edited by saimo on 08-Sep-2006 at 03:43 PM.

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@saimo

Quote:

My argument was much more complex than just replacing a word with another; in fact, it was about a different point than the one - like gary_c - you are trying to shift the attention to - i.e. a flamefest titled "Genesi vs AInc: who's worse?".

You happen to know any other business interested in an Amiga like system?

Last edited by pixie on 08-Sep-2006 at 03:45 PM.

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@saimo

Maybe you should then spend more time on making your point and less on nitpicking on other people points

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- blame Canada

@saimo

Quote:

My argument was much more complex than just replacing a word with another;

Your posts are well-phrased, don't get me wrong, but at a certain point it makes sense to lead to a conclusion - otherwise people won't be able to see the forest for the trees and the point would be as fuzzy as your avatar...

Last edited by polka. on 08-Sep-2006 at 03:54 PM.

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Quote:

Maybe you should then spend more time on making your point and less on nitpicking on other people points

When people stops trying to change the focus of the discussion in order to dodge my comments and/or raise smokescreens, then it will be my utmost pleasure - and I *do* mean it, as it would save me time & energies - stopping being so strict about what's being discussed

BTW: this is OT and I won't comment on it any further as it would end up polluting an already messed up thread, thus turning in nothing but a... smokescreen

saimo

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Quote:

Your posts are well-phrased, don't get me wrong, but at a certain point it makes sense to lead to a conclusion - otherwise people won't be able to see the forest for the trees and the point would be as fuzzy as your avatar...

I absolutely agree, but unfortunately it is not me that does not want to arrive to a conclusion! That's a point that saddens me, both because it requires a huge effort to keep the discussion on track and because I do realize that it is difficult for the people not directly involved in the sub-thread to follow it. But, wouldn't the mess be bigger if I followed each and every twist given to the discussions (which would really lead to nothing, eventually)?
I'm sorry, but it's not my fault.
/me shrugs

saimo

edit: ouch! I had said I wouldn't comment on this further

Last edited by saimo on 08-Sep-2006 at 04:01 PM.

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@Atheist

Quote:

Atheist wrote: Quote: jkirk wrote: @Atheist quote: Removed edited quote /tomazkid..... don't start this again atheist. Hi jkirk, Okay, when THEY stop.

they didn't start talking about os4emu. you did.

Last edited by tomazkid on 08-Sep-2006 at 10:04 PM.
Last edited by jkirk on 08-Sep-2006 at 05:39 PM.

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@opi

Sorry, I didn't want to sound that serious. My appology if I did (should put more smileys into my posts)

But, yes, QNX was free, but is not any more. QSS withdrew their Neutrino 6 release from the free download. Momentics was there for a while, too, but is now an "evaluation" version.

Why I mentioned

Quote:

But you will quickly learn, that this version is not usable in everydays business.

is, because usually you don't run QNX on your PC. You'll need a target environment + tools. As soon as you make that step, you have to invest into the project. And thus, if you seriously want to deliver, QNX costs money.

Quote:

Well, I didn't brought it up -- but I wouldn't mind to see AmigaOS in position of QNX: well performing, respected, and running on dozen of boards OS that can be used by developers and as end-env. for your products.

Yes, I agree. And a couple of years market availablility. Give AmigaOS time. Now, even before the OS is on the market, it looks like there will be some boards available before end of the year. Do you think QNX had that number of boards supported from the beginning ? I guess not, it grew into what it is now.

And still, I admit, they have tough competition. On one end from Linux and the other thru other embedded OS vendors.

I think what could make a difference for AmigaOS is its target to Multimedia (which is still a open issue in the embedded world - but filling up quickly) and its very easy way to configure (compared to e.g. Linux).

Also, QSS showed, that with their business model, one can be sucessfull. It is similar to Amiga's license model, which cannot be that restrict because it also targets the "home" market, which QNX simply does not (thus higher prices). But in principle, I would say they are closer then e.g. to Linux/Windows/Mac etc.

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@Atheist

Quote:

gary_c DOES NOT like Amiga Inc. Well, go away then.

Amiga, Inc. is just an abstraction to me; I don't either like or dislike it. I can't say I like what was done to the platform by the management, the choices they made, the bridges they burned, but from what I read, a lot of people here feel exactly the same way. One thing I know is that love for the current Amiga, Inc. isn't a requirement for participating at this site. And if you don't like that, you can go away, Atheist.

-- gary_c

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@saimo

Quote:

I absolutely agree, but unfortunately it is not me that does not want to arrive to a conclusion!

saimo, you've said I was trying to create smokescreens and diversions and so on, but honestly I try to respond to your points as clearly as I can. Maybe I focus on something you say that is not the most important point in your opinion, and this strikes you as an attempt to go off on a tangent, but I don't try to do this intentionally. What I try to do is respond in a clear and fairly brief way, because it seems your analyses get rather heavy with references to earlier posts and so on, spiraling backward instead of progressing forward.

Anyway, I hope you will accept my word that I want to honestly respond to your points in a clear way. I really am trying to get clarifications and air these issues in an open way.

-- gary_c

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@gary_c

Quote:

saimo, you've said I was trying to create smokescreens and diversions and so on,

For clearness' sake: I was speaking in general terms and I've got nothing personal against you (in the same way, this post can be interpreted in a general way; wherever I use "you" is only because, well, it's you that I'm replying to ); however, as I have openly stated exactly every time I thought it was the case, I do find that sometimes you (try to) divert the attention.

Quote:

but honestly I try to respond to your points as clearly as I can. Maybe I focus on something you say that is not the most important point in your opinion, and this strikes you as an attempt to go off on a tangent,

But, as shown by my posts, I don't just say: "Hey, you're divagating (because I say so)."; I always give an explanation of why I think it is so. And, BTW, until now, not a single time anybody ever could come up with something like a "Nope, you are wrong, in fact what I wrote is pertaining because of this and that" and prove me wrong - note that I don't absolutely want the discussions to degenerate in nitpicking fights: I'd just like them to be totally open, honest and stay on track as much as possible.

Quote:

but I don't try to do this intentionally.

I'm not really interested in knowing the spirit with which you reply, although it's undeniable that it's unpleasant to get the feeling that a reply is not "genuine" - and viceversa, of course

Quote:

What I try to do is respond in a clear and fairly brief way, because it seems your analyses get rather heavy with references to earlier posts and so on, spiraling backward instead of progressing forward.

I don't go backwards because I enjoy it (I don't find it funny at all, as explained already) or because that's the direction I consider correct: instead - excuse me if I repeat myself - it's only because of the necessity of keeping the discussion on track and thus enable it to proceed forward, rather than letting it take any branch encountered *before* the main path has been fully walked.
Moreover, I always give a motivation why I feel doing so is needed (and most of the times, or maybe all of them, it's because I sense a diversion). Your answers are clear, but often are not... answers : I mean, sometimes what you write does not reply to what I wrote, but rather pulls another issue in the discussion, leaving the real subject unanswered - that looks like an attempt at raising a smokescreen because of lack of arguments. I always try to be very clear about these situations and I do my best to explain/report the details in order to fully and honestly show my thoughts and, at the same time, put the interlocutor in the condition of having all the elements to "defend" himself.

Quote:

Anyway, I hope you will accept my word that I want to honestly respond to your points in a clear way. I really am trying to get clarifications and air these issues in an open way.

While these words sound genuine (and I'm happy about it), I can't deny that they quite clash with what I've seen in your posts, so I hope you can understand me if I say that accepting them straight away would be very hard (and maybe hypocrite) - I'm a man, not a machine . But surely I grant you the benefit of doubt, really hoping that in the next conversations we will have I'll find your intentions are just like you say.

Now, I wonder: why did you employ your time to write this meta-post (no offence intended: this is really a meta-discussion), instead of just taking my posts and showing me why, instead, you think the arguments you brought in did actually fit, thus enabling yourself to bring your POV on? (No, I don't want an answer... this is just a rhetorical question.)

I had promised I wouldn't comment on this issue, but it would have been unfair given that I had discussed it only with other persons. So, everybody, please excuse me for such a long OT post.

saimo

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Quote:

gary_c wrote: @Atheist Quote: gary_c DOES NOT like Amiga Inc. Well, go away then. Amiga, Inc. is just an abstraction to me; I don't either like or dislike it. I can't say I like what was done to the platform by the management, the choices they made, the bridges they burned, but from what I read, a lot of people here feel exactly the same way. One thing I know is that love for the current Amiga, Inc. isn't a requirement for participating at this site. And if you don't like that, you can go away, Atheist. -- gary_c

Hi gary_c,

Well, let's talk about this.

I like:
Amiga Inc.
Eyetech
Rogue, EntilZah and others associated
Hyperion Entertainment
Troika
ACK

I don't like:
I've already made a list of almost all the people I don't like.


Now it's your turn.
Make a list of what it is that you like that keeps you coming back.
Most of the people on my list that I don't like, don't like any of the things on my "like" list, but THEY KEEP POSTING HERE TELLING ME THIS, for YEARS now.

I GET IT!
I GET IT!!
I GET IT!!!
I GET IT!!!!
I GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
already.

Why do you keep coming back and telling me this?

@Atheist

Quote:

Why do you keep coming back and telling me this?

See avatar

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@Atheist

Quote:

Make a list of what it is that you like that keeps you coming back.

The user experience. That's really about it.

The companies don't keep me here, I'm not a mindless sheep following whatever Amiga Inc. says, or Hyperoin says, or Genesi says, or ACK or Troika says, or whoever. I'm not here for the superior hardware. I'm not here out of some pseudo-religious obligation.

I'm here because using Windows annoys me. I recently reinstalled XP because I got a new hard drive for my laptop. (160GB vs 80GB) I know there's a way to have the start->recent documents thing to not list anything I've looked at. I don't want XP telling people what documents I'm looking at. On the previous hard drive I'd at some point found a way to turn that off, but on the new one I can't find that same thing again. Seems it would be in taskbar or start menu properties, but I can't find anything. On my old hard drive, iTunes had somehow become not the default audio player, and every time I loaded it, it asked me if I wanted to reset it to the default, which I wanted to say yes. But after saying yes, it then told me I did not have access priveleges to change that setting. This was with an admin account, really the only accoung on the system, which had been used to install all software and could do any Windows admin stuff for drives, services, etc. But I was not allowed to make iTunes default player again.

Linux is hard to get going. Sure, there's some that are supposed to be easy. I even tried the new kubuntu Dapper Drake. My MythTV box had been mangled by an updte a while ago and I thought maybe I could find an easier to deal with distro than Gentoo. Dapper installed nicely in comparison, but in trying to add universe/multiverse repositories, I still could not use the package tool to find the mythtv installation stuff. Howtos said only need to add universe/multiverse and then search and select, but search found nothing to select.

AmigaOS, while lacking some things I'd like these days, has never been so annoyingly stupid about settings or installing stuff. The user experience has always been a lot smoother and more pleasant than anythgin else I've used. I'm here because AmigaOS doesnt' piss me off like Windows and Linux do. (I've never seen MacOS X or MorphOS)

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Hi billt,

Awesome!

While,
Quote:

billt wrote: @Atheist AmigaOS, while lacking some things I'd like these days, has never been so annoyingly stupid about settings or installing stuff. The user experience has always been a lot smoother and more pleasant than anythgin else I've used. I'm here because AmigaOS doesnt' piss me off like Windows and Linux do. (I've never seen MacOS X or MorphOS)

AOS4.0 IS lacking some things, but as we all know, look at the budget and the amount of users that are here.

Actually, what HAS been achieved is MONUMENTAL!


Keep in mind, if MacOS impresses you, how many more billions was spent on it's OS than AOS?

And it still doesn't have features that AOS has, and it's an OS on an OS. too. (Slows things down, increases complexity.)


I love that on an Amiga, if you have hotpluggable hard drives, you can copy all the files into Ram:, unplug the HD, and keep going, and put another HD in, and it would never know..... Or how about if you unplug the HD and reboot, IF it was in the Rad:!!!!!!! Is there another OS that can do that?

If you turn off the swap file on XP, get ready for parts of the OS NOT to work anymore, or even a system crash soon. The computer can't even tell you why it doesn't work anymore. I had that problem before.


It's not the religion thing with me (well AOS4.0 is), but I like all those people, because, they DID make it possible for Amiga to reappear, and they are NOT intentionally destroying the chance for progress.

They can't deal with bb and I can see why.

No matter how you look at it, bb's trying to get AOS4.0 to sell his product (a motherboard) with no obligations whatsoever on his part TO AOS4.0. Whether it lives or dies, he couldn't give a rats ass.

If AOS4.0 is not coupled with his MB, if sales of AOS are 10% of his MB output, he don't care.

That is a joke, and Amiga cannot survive.



Hi Legion,

Love on Red Dwarf when he says "We are Legion".

Hehehehe! Love the flies!

Atheist:
Exactly what features does AmigaOS 4.0 have that OS X doesn't?

Oh, wait, I know.. OMG OMG!!111 LOL LOL!!!1 draggable screens!

Quote:

ironfist wrote: Atheist: Exactly what features does AmigaOS 4.0 have that OS X doesn't? Oh, wait, I know.. OMG OMG!!111 LOL LOL!!!1 draggable screens!

Hi ironfist,

You concede defeat of AOS4.0 to MacOS, and are pro morph? Why do you linger here? You don't like any of the things I like, and as for features, I listed two in the post above....and I don't think it has Ram: disk, and doesn't have a Rad:, and EVEN if it did, it couldn't do EXACTLY what I described previously.

So, draggable screens (which isn't a word, we've made a new word), Ram:, Rad:, and rebooting independent of HDs. That's pretty damn good considering the wanna be OSs have had 20 years to match our capabilities.

And there's more....

Atheist:
Who ever said I was "pro morph"?..