Anyone know if Amiga os 4.0 will be made availble to run on mac ppc hardware?
Would love to have a new amiga setup. but not willing to pay the asking price for such low spec hardware.

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@ian-uk
The answer is NO.

Surely thats going to limit the market for os 4. Why is it not possible when the hardware is so simlar?

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@ian-uk

hyperion said so.

they said they didn't have the drive to create a version for mac that can only be obtained second hand. also no documentation.

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@ian-uk

For one thing, Apple does not allow other OS'es on its hardware and does not hand out all the necessary documents regarding its chipsets etc. needed to port OS4 successfully.
Anyway if you search around on Amigaworld you'll find many more threads regarding this issue.


OS4 is worth it, so start saving up money...

@ian-uk

use the search engine of this site using "OS4" "port" and "MAC", you'll find plenty of threads answering your question, argumenting why, etc...

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@Cameraman

Of course Apple not 'allowing' other OSes doesn't stop PPC Linux or PPC OpenBSD or NetBSD.

So invariably IF they wanted to make an AmigaOS for the old Mac Hardware they could find quite a bit of what they needed in the freeware domain.

Of course this isn't going to happen because they've already said NO.

@BrianK

I for one would like to run os4 on my dual ppc powermac g5

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Ok thanks for the info. Maybe i'll get a samantha as a second system or look out for a ppc card for my A1200 to get my amiga fix.

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@Cameraman

Quote:

For one thing, Apple does not allow other OS'es on its hardware and does not hand out all the necessary documents regarding its chipsets etc. needed to port OS4 successfully. Anyway if you search around on Amigaworld you'll find many more threads regarding this issue.

Apple do allow other OSes on their hardware. If they didn't they wouldn't have ported MkLinux to their own hardware, asked the MacOS authors to put code into the kernel bootstrap loader to boot the Linux kernel, etc.

As for "necessary documents regarding its chipsets etc.", none of it is particularly specialist. The PCI initialisation code is generic, most of the other chips are produced by other vendors. The exception to this is the two ethernet controllers they designed, BMAC and GMAC. And they released driver development information for those.

If Apple *didn't* want people to run other OSes on their hardware, they'd do exactly what games console manufacturers do and only allow the firmware to execute crypto signed bootloaders/kernel images, but then they'd only be hurting themseslves.

Last edited by nine on 02-Oct-2006 at 01:45 PM.

@ian-uk

It's much better to buy overpriced second hand ArticiaS hardware that only have been produced in a few thousands than using one of the millions of available > 2Ghz Macs.

Who cares if linux coders got their OS booting in less than a week?

Why should they look at the Linux sources when they can have so much fun reverse engineering VIA686B drivers and wondering for months why VIA686B and ArticiaS didn't get on well?

It's much better to buy "new" overpriced hardware with cpus without L2 cache and running at frequenzies under 1Ghz.

Why would you need a G5? The speed could kill you!

If the Amiga Inc partners think a sub Ghz cpu without L2 cache and one PCI is enough for you, simply believe them, give'em one thousand of bucks and "keep teh momentum going".

Last edited by Crumb on 02-Oct-2006 at 01:45 PM.

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@Cameraman
Quote:

For one thing, Apple does not allow other OS'es on its hardware

This is entirely untrue. Not only does Apple actively support Parallels, they also *provide* software necessary to run other x86 OSes on MacIntel hardware (reference Boot Camp) - and this software will be an integral part Leopard.

Quote:

and does not hand out all the necessary documents regarding its chipsets etc. needed to port OS4 successfully.

This is also untrue. Reference Parallels, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Yellow Dog, Mandrake, Ubunto, etc. etc. All of these OSes somehow managed to obtain the documentation necessary to make these products work on modern Mac hardware. Examining the Linux source to produce a Mac version of OS4 has been deemed implausible, yet certain people ignore that those who produced the several Mac versions of Linux obtained the necessary documentation to create those sources, as did BSD, as did the makers of Parallels. The documentation does exist and is available to those who are interested in it.

Quote:

OS4 is worth it, so start saving up money...

Yes, it's been made clear that there is absolutely no possibility whatsoever of OS4 ever appearing on low-cost PPC Mac hardware, so start saving up for whatever AmigaOne Partners board comes up next.

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@nine

Ahem... there is plenty of hardware there's no documentation for, except for Linux/BSD/OpenDarwin sources.
The northbridge (also handling the PCI) is custom: the Uni-North.
Example: most PCI controllers have a 32-bit port for accessing the configuration space, the Uninorth is 64.
Another example: the PMU, which handles a lot of stuff on the Macs, like the batteries on the laptop, or the power switch, and possibly the modem/serial for the older models.
The Phys part of the ethernet, on the other hand, is often a standard part, like the Sun GEM or a Broadcom one I forgot the partno of.
And not to mention their not-very-standard implementation of BrokenFirmware, which could potentially yeld problems with the OS4 Radeon driver, if it doesn't initialize the card the same way as the x86 emu in UBoot does (of course for Linux there is no problem, but that's another history).

@jorkany

Quote:

jorkany wrote: This is also untrue. Reference Parallels, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Yellow Dog, Mandrake, Ubunto, etc. etc. All of these OSes somehow managed to obtain the documentation necessary to make these products work on modern Mac hardware. Examining the Linux source to produce a Mac version of OS4 has been deemed implausible, yet certain people ignore that those who produced the several Mac versions of Linux obtained the necessary documentation to create those sources, as did BSD, as did the makers of Parallels. The documentation does exist and is available to those who are interested in it.

Really ? Then find it and I'll port OS4 to MacPPC for you.
But beware, it's not glossy white papers we need, but real developer documentation.
And before you even try it, please understand that subscribing as an Apple developer at the ADC is NOT ENOUGH.

That documentation, if it really exists (and you don't have to ask to the Apple engeneers each time), it's not for public access, you've got to be backed by someone important.

Ask yourself why the whole Linux port was almost done by only two individuals (Paul & Ben), who back then had good connections with Apple.

One last thing: there is no license to do so, even if it was possible. One would ask to Amiga Inc for it. Not exactly a piece of cake.

Last edited by AV on 02-Oct-2006 at 01:56 PM.

@Cameraman

Quote:

For one thing, Apple does not allow other OS'es on its hardware and does not hand out all the necessary documents regarding its chipsets etc. needed to port OS4 successfully.

i know this was the case many years ago, but linux now seems to be running quite nice on Macs these days..
To me it sounds all like a lousy excuse. The only valid argumentation is that Mac PPC is now pretty dead and has no future.

Last edited by Tomas on 02-Oct-2006 at 02:13 PM.

@ian-uk

The answer to this, every one of the numerous times it's been asked, has been no. There's no reason to believe this will change. Believe me, I tried.

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@Tomas

Quote:

To me it sounds all like a lousy excuse.

If making OS4 work on PPC Macs is so trivial, then surely you'll have it done soon. I request an iBook port from you.

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@AV

Quote:

Examining the Linux source to produce a Mac version of OS4 has been deemed implausible, yet certain people ignore that those who produced the several Mac versions of Linux obtained the necessary documentation to create those sources, as did BSD, as did the makers of Parallels. The documentation does exist and is available to those who are interested in it.

Is this documentation actually available, or did that all come from some resourceful reverse-engineering and a lot of free time?

Even if it's now considered "documented" (cough, couch, hack) in the form of Linux/BSD/whatever source code, you stil need to find someone willing to ignore the implausibility argument and do it anyway. This person must have access to certain OS4 source code as well. Who among us has access to the necessary OS4 source codes and is also willing to ignore the implausibility argument and has the free time to reverse-engineer the Linux sources?

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@Crumb

Quote:

Why should they look at the Linux sources when they can have so much fun reverse engineering VIA686B drivers and wondering for months why VIA686B and ArticiaS didn't get on well?

Sarcasm aside, they wouldnt be able to do this, because "looking" at the Linux source code, and then re-implementing it in OS4 (which is not GPL'd) would break the GPL.

Mark

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@Tomas

Of course the best option would be to approach Apple to buy the design for the now defunct Quad PPC Power Mac, which they may be inclined to sell/licence to someone for use as a OS4 machine. (No idea how much it would cost but I cant see them turning down an offer for x-thousand dollars where x is potentially a v. large number for an essentially dead machine).

Mark

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