@Insanity

Your argue is so old, silly and boring...


The situation is clear:

A port is possible but Hyperion don´t wanna do it for wathever the reasons.

We respect them, but we don´t like anybody tell us it is not possible when we know it is.

@Insanity

Quote:

So if it after this initiative is still deemed impossible, maybe then less people will bring this up?

Hopefully, but knowing us we'll still be arguing about it another 20 years from now...

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@thread

Some people in here are getting a bit personal or bordering on trolling.

Whatever the reasons are behind the OS not being ported to anything other than what it already has been are only known to those parties responsible, and for everyone else, this speculation at best, or fantasy at worst, isn't going to change matters.

If somebody is bound by an agreement to do something, no matter how much you want them to do something else, that just isn't going to happen unless that agreement is amended, and right now, that just isn't going to happen either.

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Test sig (new)

@vision
We do
We don't
We know

Last edited by pixie on 03-Oct-2006 at 08:19 PM.

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@vision

Quote:

We respect them, but we don´t like anybody tell us it is not possible when we know it is.

Then help me get everyone on your side of the issue together, stop wasting time with the "yes it is; no it's not; yes it is; no it's not" infinite loop we're all stuck in, and prove beyond any reasonable argument that the "excuses" you don't like truely are wrong. There's people in this thread saying the documentation is out there. Don't just say it, prove it. If they come up with a new excuse, try to prove that one wrong too.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@billt

How do you prove that there's no documentation out there? ouch!

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@billt
Quote:

Hopefully, but knowing us we'll still be arguing about it another 20 years from now...

New Amiga hardware seems to take that long so yes we will be requesting old Apple discarded hardware.

@pixie
How about helping to find the documentation that is so obvious and so there so billt can get things going instead of making another clever comment like this one?

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ExecSG Team Lead

@vision

Quote:

vision wrote: The situation is clear: A port is possible but Hyperion don´t wanna do it for wathever the reasons.

The main obstacle is the compulsory hardware licensing/bundling scheme. If this were removed, then it wouldn't matter if Hyperion themselves really were that criminally stupid and did not "want to" make it possible to sell their desktop PPC software for the bleeding obvious desktop PPC target hardware.

If the hardware licensing/bundling requirement was dropped, then a third party (billt for example, or whoever else) would be free to develop and distribute Mac (or whatever else) drivers to be used with separately purchased AmigaOS CDs. Just like we've always used to buy or dowload drivers, RTG systems et c from third parties without having to wait for a pointless blessing from Commodore of third party hardware.

A "port" (quotation marks since we're not talking about a different CPU architecture) is not only technically possible and probably much easier than e.g. Hyperion's work on the Teron versions. It's also absolutely necessary, at least as long as AmigaOS is stuck with PPC. Too bad that the powers that be have deliberately made this impossible with their hardware licensing scheme. AmigaOS4 could have been running on Macs for years by now, with or without Hyperion's direct involvement in developing the "port".

From a commercial viewpoint, and as far as building any future for AmigaOS is concerned, the "AmigaOne" failure has been a pointless waste of time and money. This makes "Hyperion don't want to make a Mac version", and the alleged inconvenience of getting the same understanding of Mac hardware as Linux/*BSD/OpenDarwin/etc. hobbyists have, appear in a rather humorous light to put it mildly. As far as Terons/"AmigaOnes" were concerned, a refusal because "we don't want to" or "it requires an effort" might actually have made some sense...
The OS needs to also be sold for hardware that people own or would actually consider buying.

Anyway, PPC died on the desktop with Apple's switch, yet PPC Macs still make an infinitely better target platform for AmigaOS than the hyper-expensive underperforming and unavailable bedroom projects which were the inevitable results of the braindead "pretend like you need new Amigas" policy.

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Oh, bother.

@ssolie

How about not? I never said that it existed, or not for that matter...
It's not my fight, but still time to time I like to state the obvious

Last edited by pixie on 03-Oct-2006 at 09:08 PM.

_________________
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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@SananaMan:

Quote:

sananaman wrote: I've checked the PearPC installation and it's indeed a FAKE. The hardfile is a renamed .avi file and the amiga_uboot1.0.1.bin is a renamed .jpg file.

Interesting! I´ll rename the hardfile and look what it is... a presentation of a working version? ;))

greetz,
Dafreak

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---
(DaFreak of Liquid Skies & Moods Plateau)

@abalaban
Quote:

It's beginning to really be boring. If you want to use a Mac PPC machine, then buy one second hand on EBay and either use MacOS, Linux or BSD, that's okay for me, I won't bother you. That's all. Or if you want to use OS4, then just buy an OS4 supported machine : now an A1 SE/XE/micro from ebay or wait for the annouced boards that you would be able to buy new.

I dont think you get it.. I am not for a ppc mac port anymore, due to the fact that they are not produced anymore. What i want is some hardware to run OS4 on and i dont care if this is a mac, amd64, x86, ppc and so on. I was for a mac port before the ppc switch, and that was because this hardware was readily avaliable while the AmigaONE where not. Currently there is absolutely no hardware for OS4 and i honestly think this situation stinks. But maybe you dont care because you either dont want OS4 or you have it already?

The only point of my post was that someone claim that there is no port for Mac because it is impossible due to lack of documentation. This excuse is plain bull and is basicly a lie in my opinion, as there is plenty of open source OSes currently running just nicely on Macs.

I just want a damn machine to run OS4 on and i am getting sick and tired of waiting.
I dont care a s**t about computers that run macos, linux or windows.
If samantha runs OS4 and is released soon, then will probably be happy with that for quite some time. But that is still just a dream...

Last edited by Tomas on 04-Oct-2006 at 03:02 AM.

That's it!


Let's have a poll on whether we should have a new forum called
"The Dead Horse"
alternately
"Beating the Dead Horse"
alternately
"Beating and Torturing the Dead Horse"
alternately
"Resurrecting to Beat and Torture the Dead Now Live Horse to Death"
alternately
"Oh No, Not Again!"


Of course, it would not appear on the front page NOR shall it appear under the "Latest Posts" page either. In fact, let's make it really hard to find, like in a disused basement lavatory where the light switch doesn't work..... ahhhh, you get the picture.


Thank you. Have a nice day.

Back to your regularly scheduled program...

@vision

your posts seem always so rude to me.
Anyway, it should be obvious, but for "distracted" people: IMHO possible-impossible should be read as "economically feasible"
Why should they spend hours, weeks try to understand a complicated, very few documentated software, only to achive something that if it doesn't work you have only to guess why. E.G. Hard coded values are always problems since they relay on a situation unknown to anyone else.
Almost everything is possible, but is really worth it? With no license, no documentation....i really doubt it.

Richi

@Tomas

Quote:

The only point of my post was that someone claim that there is no port for Mac because it is impossible due to lack of documentation.

That wasn't the point, in fact "they claimed they *don't want* to do it because of the lack of documentation" not that it's impossible (BTW nothing is impossible, all depends on your good will, your financial situation, and your ambition).
Take a breath and think twice if you were them (i.e. a company with commercial ambition) would you endorse responsability and take critics for something that you don't understand and don't have control over ? You should be joking else you won't be a good company manager : how would you justify to your users ?

In fact you are right I already own OS4 running on an A1XE, but that don't change anything, say by example I own a Renault car and I don't like the speed regulator, whereas I find the BMW one more to my taste, I don't nag every day long BMW because I want them to adapt their speed regulator to a Renault...
Another example, say I have the AC/DC "Razors Edge" on old tape I bought some (many) years ago now I would like to buy one in CD form, but the CD is sold out, the only form I can find it (for now) is a remasterized one in an under-quality carton cover that was republished two years or three ago whereas I would like the quality one in rigid cover and all... Oh and of course I want it new, not second hand... So what am I doing ? Am I whinning all day long to Atlantic Records saying that they should republish it in another form that the current one ? No, I'm waiting patiently, if the people that does it say it's not in the tablet for now, then it is not, no matter what I can try to do or say, it's their decision to make it or not.

I have nothing against you really, it's just that the subject posted again an again is really starting to be boring and reminds me of some sort childish attitude (again not you in particular, but the way this subject appears again and again) :
" - can I have .... ?
- no because ....
- but why can't I have ... ?
- I already told you that ....
- but I want ...
- it's not planned now
- but why ?
- because of ....
etc."
Everybody should take its responsability, if you *really* want to use OS4, then it's possible, either by buying some second hand machines (Ebay or not) or even some (but limited I admit) new ones (just this morning someone told me he managed to source a micro from a French dealer)... Else you wait a bit more and see if/when new hardware really comes up.

Last edited by abalaban on 04-Oct-2006 at 09:10 AM.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

Quote:

abalaban wrote: @Tomas I have nothing against you really, it's just that the subject posted again an again is really starting to be boring and reminds me of some sort childish attitude (again not you in particular, but the way this subject appears again and again) : " - can I have .... ? - no because .... - but why can't I have ... ? - I already told you that .... - but I want ... - it's not planned now - but why ? - because of .... etc."

Hi abalaban,

I really should NOT be saying this, but isn't that how we got draggable screens back?


(Note: I do not support for a long time now, the eternal futile quest of AOS4.x on Mac PPC or x86 HW anymore. Was medium about it at best at any time in the past. PPC w Altivec is quite fine, and the Cell should prove to be amazing in the future. Our future is in good hands, it's lack of HW and reasonable costs that's really only holding us back. Yup, not even lack of an up-to-date broswer is a problem. Amigans are patient, resourceful, and determined.)

While being wary of adding 2c to this discussion:

If it's possible to write a processor native emulator like Shapeshifter or Fusion (i.e. one that uses the CPU natively but intercepts calls to the OS etc), why is it not possible to write a CPU-native module for UAE for the PowerMac? As we know OS4 will run on Classic hardware and we've already got classic hardware emulated via UAE, we'd just need to write the equivalent of a PPC board for a classic Amiga and it should run.

Not saying it'd be easier, but it's an avenue worth looking at I imagine. Especially if we can't get the developer docs for Apple hardware (and no, looking at sources from BSD or Linux is not enough. What would happen if we need access to a register not used by Linux? Or what if there's a bug in the driver? Just not practical).

@pixie

Quote:

Will Apple go suing the user who had payed for his MacOS X? I don't think it will... neither that it would make any sense...

I don't think they'll chase down individual users. There's little point in spending so much for such a tiny gain. That's partly why I think they haven't chased down anyone running OS X on generic PCs.

@Spirantho

How would you justify you are selling a commercial product that works only in an emulator ? Do you really think it's a wise choice for a company ?
How many company still write and sell programs for Thomson MO5, ZX80, pretexting that emulators are everywhere ?

In fact what you are suggesting is to port OS4Emu to MacOS PPC... I don't know if this could be possible, only Itix could tell us.

@Atheist

I agree that there is currently (and for some time now) a problem in OS4 world : it's the hardware availability (or unavailability I must say). But then even if there were hardware in aboundance I'm sure we'll find people moaning and asking for MacPPC port just because they already own one and don't want to buy another machine for such an overpriced amount of money...

EDIT : of course you can also replace MacPPC buy x86 the same apply IMHO

Last edited by abalaban on 04-Oct-2006 at 10:40 AM.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

@Spirantho

Quote:

Spirantho wrote: While being wary of adding 2c to this discussion: If it's possible to write a processor native emulator like Shapeshifter or Fusion (i.e. one that uses the CPU natively but intercepts calls to the OS etc), why is it not possible to write a CPU-native module for UAE for the PowerMac? As we know OS4 will run on Classic hardware and we've already got classic hardware emulated via UAE, we'd just need to write the equivalent of a PPC board for a classic Amiga and it should run. Not saying it'd be easier, but it's an avenue worth looking at I imagine. Especially if we can't get the developer docs for Apple hardware (and no, looking at sources from BSD or Linux is not enough. What would happen if we need access to a register not used by Linux? Or what if there's a bug in the driver? Just not practical).

What is strange is that nobody has written an emulator of the blizzardPPC jet, after all more complicated hardware has been emulated over the years

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