Good news E-UAE for Linux works on the PS3 already:

AmigaOS3.x now running on PlayStation3
http://amigans.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=88

@MikeB

It's not news. The PS3 runs Linux PPC and EUAE runs on PPC linux, so it's not in any way surprising. Mmmmm, full screen Superfrog on a large TV, mmmmm.

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@MikeB

Well, let's be honest here, the PS3 carries the Sony name and has some major franchises. There's no chance in hell it's going to "fail". The question is whether it will sell as well as Sony wants it to sell, ie. destroy all competition. So far it seems that they will have a very hard time beating the Wii.

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An interesting quote from Epic's Vice President:

"GI: Do you think Sony’s in trouble?

Rein: No, god, no. Somebody asked me that earlier, and I was like, “What a ridiculous question.” People, just give them a break for crying out loud. People think it’s bad if they can’t ship enough, and then they think it’s bad if they can ship enough. It’s like, which is it? Either they can’t fulfill your order or they can, and they’re both good. Being able to fulfill your order is good news, right? Go out and buy your PS3 now. You can get one. That’s miraculous. They sold more PS3s in North America than Microsoft sold Xbox 360s in its same period of time, and they clearly aren’t going to have the shortage problems that Microsoft had. So as long as people are willing to pay the price for the machine—and I’m sure lots of people are—I think they’re hopefully in a good situation. I think they’ve done a good job with their downloadable content. There’s not a lot of games on there, but the ones that are there are really high quality, and I’m really impressed with the games. It’s a beautiful machine, it’s a great-looking piece of equipment, so I think Sony’s going to be fine.

Hopefully, they’ll have some big, hit must-have games. I mean, I was really hoping for a Gran Turismo this year. I’m a little disappointed that they’ve sort of abandoned the idea of doing Gran Turismo HD and building it out. It’s because I’m a fan, and I love that game. I’m really looking forward to Motorstorm, obviously, Resistance is a great game and I’m really enjoying it, so I don’t think that at all. I think Sony’s going to do great. People just want to say, it doesn’t matter what, people just want to say bad things. You know there were people predicting with Gears, “There’s no way it’s gonna make its release date, and Epic’s having problems and it doesn’t run well on the 360,” and all these crazy, stupid rumors. People are so negative now, it’s just turned. I’ve really noticed this over the last couple of years. It’s really turned a corner from positivity to negativity, and it’s overwhelming sometimes. It makes you want to kill yourself. It’s just crazy. I don’t get it. I don’t understand why people want to be so negative about everything. Like I said, I think there’s some really good news there and it’s a great machine, and people just want to beat them up. Same with Xbox. It doesn’t matter which one it is. Everybody’s got something negative to say these days."

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200701/N07.0126.1423.58507.htm

I am not much of a Gears of War fan from an overall gaming perspective, but the visuals and on a technical level the product was solid. I hope they do a good job on the PS3 version of Unreal Tournament 3, earlier versions on the PC were really nice to play.

I am a bit (positively) surprised by this statement though.

@AMiGR

Quote:

beating the Wii

I am not sure what that means. Pure numbers ? Game Play ?

Both are unrelated, IMO. The Wii can co-exist with the PS3 because it targets a different audience.

I think pure numbers are for investors or who ever has to much time to talk about it.

I'd say it is already successfull, and probably will be in Europe. I'd guess more then in the US. Simply because MS is not that strong in Europe as it is in the US (= home market, which is always a bonus),
OTHO, I am courios how the high price will play a role in Europe. Sony could still lower the price for Europe significantly to match the US $599. But I guess they speculate that Europeans can afford to spend that much more then in the US (?).

I would even go so far to estimate Sony will do a 1MM on launch. (Now you got me, I am talking about numbers).

The launch situation is slightly different to the US:

@AMiGR

Interesting perspective on the PS3 and Nintendo Wii, well explained, complete with graphs and everything...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Enau4SKqeZY

Just to add my support to the point Trezzer and others have been making: discussing with MikeB seems to be futile, which I think, is a shame.

I actually thought for a while that this might be a topic (PS3 in general) where a fruitful discussion would be possible with him (unlike the heavily polarized AmigaOS debate of the yesteryear, which I thought might be an isolated incident)... but it seems MikeB's style remains the same no matter the topic. I also agree that his way of responding to only some things and adding huge amounts of selectively picked quotes and links everywhere doesn't really seem to offer a way to move the discussion forward. So many people have pointed out this issue that I don't really think we are all making it up in our minds.

I continue to stand by my earlier assessment that MikeB is making more damage to PS3 in this thread (and the two earlier threads) as far as I'm concerned, than good. An honest, no frills discussion would have been much more insightful, interesting, educational and, above all, useful in determining if or when to buy PS3. Now whenever some issue worth of discussing is brought up, it is quickly ignored and drowned by MikeB with a bunch of links and quotes that sing PS3's praises. It is now becoming very hard to separate the useful bits and pieces of information (which there certainly are) from all the marketing. Shame, really.

A discussion has value when both sides try to understand each others point of view and using this understanding try to perhaps shift the other side's opinion. To do this successfully among equals, you need to be balanced. You need to acknowledge failings and realities on your side, as well as on the opponents side, because otherwise you simply loose your credibility and ability to affect the opinion of the other side. MikeB simply sounds like a marketing droid and thus has lost, in my eyes, this credibility and ability to shift my opinion.

Unlike some might expect, I actually look forward to discussions that might shift my opinion (in addition to be opportunity to perhaps shift others' opinion). Anything else would be a waste of time.

But thanks to those, and there are many here (excluding MikeB), who have IMHO posted mostly very valuable and appropriate insight into their experiences of PS3. Both praises and not. I appreciate that and have learned a great many things while trying to determine do I need one or not.

@MikeB

Ahahahah, hilarious! Good to see that some people still have a sense of humour...

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@jtsiren

Coming from a Moobunnier like you who was often too happy to attack me in the past, while also defending the likes of repetitive JoannaK, BBRV and Seehund, I'm sorry to say I don't value your perspectives too much.

@ AMiGR

Last edited by MikeB on 28-Jan-2007 at 09:28 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Coming from a Moobunnier like you who was often too happy to attack me in the past, while also defending the likes of repetitive JoannaK, BBRV and Seehund, I'm sorry to say I don't value your perspectives too much.

Oh, you don't need to, you don't need to. But try this: Whatever beef I may have with you concerning the PS3 discussion, I have with you because of the PS3 discussion and that alone. Certainly memories of the past came up later on, but I started out from a clean slate. I have no beef with PS3.

I may deserve whatever dig you throw at me, I will certainly take it to heart (it is always useful to analyze your own behaviour), but could it be the feedback you have been receiving might also have some merit? Could it be that your "enthusiasm" continues to take you a bit too far?

(As for BBRV, he's made big enough mess of his own, I have no need to defend him for anything other than where credit is due. JoannaK I know personally somewhat, it usually gives a bit of perspective, but JoannaK can be single-minded and certainly not always worth of defending. Seehund, well, he I'd defend any day just 'cause I like the guy... :) It also helps when he was right all along. As for Moobunnier? Well, I would imagine I have other merits in the Amiga community, but if that's the title you want to label me with feel free.)

But please, do think about it.

Last edited by jtsiren on 28-Jan-2007 at 09:49 PM.

@itix

Quote:

I predict PS3 flops in Europe. Seems sales are already going down in Japan and if PS3 does not start getting momentum there will be no interest on it.

I personally feel PS3 may continue to get a tame reception (compared to what frenzy it might have gotten), so in a sense it may fail.

In the longer term, though, I'd be very surprised if its brand-recognition alone would not make it a relative success in any case. Certainly I expect to see PS3 around for a long time in Europe.

I voted No because I felt that was the most appropriate choice for me in terms of the what the goals and pretext of this poll seem to be, but given more choices my vote would probably have been more like: "No, I don't think its launch will be a resounding success, but I guess PS3 will still get a good share of the market given time."

The Playstation brand is just too strong for me to believe in an all-out failure some like to predict, nor is the product bad to warrant such failure. But market-leadership is not a given this time around.

@jtsiren

Quote:

. Now whenever some issue worth of discussing is brought up, it is quickly ignored and drowned by MikeB with a bunch of links and quotes that sing PS3's praises.

There is enough (IMO overly) negative perspectives available, I was just trying to provide some counter-information from other points of view, which is closer to my own perspectives.

I witnessed the Amiga vs Atari and more destructive post-Commodore early community wars from the sidelines. But now is 2007, AmigaOS4 has turned into a fine product and the PS3 with its 'other OS' support offers IMO too much potential to see people drown in old habits of gloom & doom and rivalry. That would be a real waste from my perspective.

At first I tried to point out Sony approach of allowing alternative operating systems running on their hardware. Sadly immediately this was shot down by various people, as they claimed Sony would never allow this, despite pointing towards evidence to the contrary. I am happy to be proven right on this one.

I already predicted Carmack's and other developing companies likely response beforehand, which would complain about changing developer methods, so I just wanted to point out not every developer out there agrees with their perspective (who see the benefits and want to take on the challenge).

I have witnessed this downward spiral within the Amiga community for too long. With people like Francis Charig of the Tao Group and their amazing product intent being publically treated like first class trash on forums like Moobunny, seemingly trying to destroy some true potential there. Their technology may be invisble, meaning you may use it without knowing, but Francis is a professional with Tao having spend hundreds of manyears and over 100 million dollars on development, dwarfing any Amiga related effort.

IMO this behaviour of trying to destroy true potential needs to end within this community. It's a self-fulling prohecy, the more often people insist failure, the more likely this would actually happen, despite this need not be the case.

@jtsiren

Quote:

But market-leadership is not a given this time around.

This takes time and effort.

The Playstation 1 & 2 did not have end-all launches, Sony entered a market with the Playstation which was dominated by Sega and Nintendo.

With regard to the Playstation 2 - From 2000 news reports:

"The international launch of the PlayStation 2 has proven to be something of a disaster for Sony, and almost everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. In the USA the initial allocation of consoles was slashed from a million to just 500,000, resulting in fights breaking out at some stores as the new system sold out within hours of its release, and the console changing hands on auction sites like eBay for five or ten times the usual retail price. Now things are starting to look grim for the European launch, with the UK's allocation of 200,000 consoles which were due between November 24th and Christmas now cut to 165,000. It's possible that the units are merely being shifted around within Europe, but it seems rather more likely that this is due to further supply shortages, and that as a result the allocation for the rest of Europe may drop as well.

[...] And things just keep getting worse for Sony. Another report in CTW suggests that the European Commission will be trying to levy an additional 2.2% import duty on the PlayStation 2, which is already over-priced in much of Europe compared to the US and Japan."

"PlayStation 2 took a real kicking from one of the most respected global news weeklies yesterday, when it printed a less than pleasant story about the launch party for the machine, describing the console as "gawky" and saying it has "all the visual charm of a low-end VCR". The article continued, "No modem is included with PS2, which puts it behind Sega's Internet-ready Dreamcast."

"Head over and take a look. There are quotes from Quake-coding god John "Ponytail Boy" Carmack on how difficult PlayStation 2 is to develop for, as well as comment on the playability of the launch games"

"Dreamcast sales climb on eve of troubled PlayStation 2 launch
Sega's Dreamcast game console has been trounced in sales by Sony's original PlayStation all year. But Sega is staging a comeback, with sales more than doubling ahead of the launch of the much-anticipated PlayStation 2, according to market research firm PC Data, which tracks retail sales of technology products."

So the success of the Playstation 1 and 2 was really a given? Or will we argue in 201x when the PS4 arrives, that the success of the PS4 will not be a given like the PS3 was? Just some food for thought.

Last edited by MikeB on 28-Jan-2007 at 11:36 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

There is enough (IMO overly) negative perspectives available, I was just trying to provide some counter-information from other points of view, which is closer to my own perspectives.

That in its own right is pretty easy to appreciate. I have no problem with people who like to concentrate on the positive. However, I don't feel you are staying positive in a balanced way, wherein lies much of the problem. Also, sometimes you seem to consider as positive things (for the side you are rooting for) that really shouldn't be seen that way by many, while not extending the same courtesy to the side you are opposing... Hence the references to a PR guy by some.

I don't know how much more useful it would be if you'd be singing both PS3's and Xbox 360's praises (not that either require or deserve unwarranted praise), but at least that would be keeping it completely positive which I don't think is happening now. I just don't feel you are a guy who likes to see positive in everything, no matter how you like to describe yourself, I think you do like to see and express negatives about the opposition even if done ever so subtly.

Personally I certainly appreciate a good debate as much as the next guy, but I've been known to express scathing critique of also those whom I prefer. I think that is the only way to keep it as honest as is humanely possible. I could dig up dozens of forum postings describing, in not always so nice words, what, say, BBRV did wrong, even if you desribed me as defending him.

Back to the topic in question: I think the poll is pretty hard to answer definitely. How does one measure success? Obviously the machine is not going to fail as in exit the market in year or two, Sony would never let that happen (barring something unexpected). The initial rush (which there will be at least some) and Blu-ray will sell significant amount of machines. The brand-name alone will enable at least this generation to make a considerable impact. I would be very surprised to be wrong about this.

More interesting would be to consider will PS3 be a success like PS2 in Europe? Or perhaps, will it only be a relative success like the original Xbox? This is where things are not so clear.

Last edited by jtsiren on 28-Jan-2007 at 11:40 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

So the success of the Playstation 1 and 2 was really a given?

Of course it was not. What I meant was that PS2's market dominance does not guarantee PS3 such a position, especially since many factors are working against it. Namely a much steeper price for PS3 this time as well as, in my opinion, a much more motivated main competitor in Microsoft and a secondary competitor with huge sales in Nintendo - all taking a toll on PS3. I don't think Sega was in a comparable position in 2000, even if they had the tech good.

In one scenario I think PS3 may end up selling most in numbers if Sony stick by it longer than Microsoft. I could see an all-new Xbox coming out way sooner than PS4. Of course PS3 can outsell Xbox 360 before that, but then it will be interesting to see by how much more. Interesting as in the sense interesting for those who care about such things...

I may have gotten a bit wound up in this discussion myself, but in the end I still care only about which machine will give me the best and most spectacular games. PS3 is still very much being considered if something worthwhile comes out for it, no matter how well it does or does not do on the market.

@jtsiren

Quote:

if you'd be singing both PS3's and Xbox 360's praises (not that either require or deserve unwarranted praise)

Come on I stated enough good things in earlier threads regarding the XBox 360 and Nintendo Wii, I also criticized early PS3 games and criticized Sony USA's PR "efforts", I think you have a selective memory here just to suit your own agenda.

But from a technical and 'Other OS' perspective there is a lot to like about the PS3.

@MikeB

Quote:

Come on I stated enough good things in earlier threads regarding the XBox 360 and Nintendo Wii, I also criticized early PS3 games and criticized Sony USA's PR "efforts", I think you have a selective memory here just to suit your own agenda.

I did acknowledge these things in my last posts in the first thread which was closed. That discussion unfortunately died down then. I haven't forgotten the stab at the PR department, I did comment on it and its relevance back there. I still feel you treat PS3 quite differently for a critical point of view, than you do Xbox 360. Wii I think you don't consider opposition for your "cause" so you leave it pretty much out of it...

Just calling like I see it. Obviously I may see wrong, but again, maybe something for you to consider or not, up to you.

Last edited by jtsiren on 29-Jan-2007 at 12:06 AM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 29-Jan-2007 at 12:06 AM.

@jtsiren

Let me make this clear, I would stay out of the lame 'XBox 360 vs PS3 wars', if not for the Cell and 'Other OS' support. IMO this has so much potential, the Amiga community cannot afford to ignore this.

Only companies like Sony and Microsoft are able to ship and sell such advanced hardware below actual production cost like this. IMO it's so great the Amiga community has the oppertunity to take advantage of this!

@MikeB

If that were your area of focus I'd find much less to object to, because it would be hard not to agree that it's fairly cheap compared to what we have now (especially considering price/performance).

On the other hand I'd rather see some of our own guys succeed with their hardware projects.

@Trezzer

Quote:

Trezzer wrote: @MikeB If that were your area of focus I'd find much less to object to, because it would be hard not to agree that it's fairly cheap compared to what we have now (especially considering price/performance). On the other hand I'd rather see some of our own guys succeed with their hardware projects.

But which one of our own guys are going to give us that much hardware for $599? They haven't even been able to sell a motherboard alone for less than $800. That doesn't mean I want them to fail or go away, but come on. With all that Sony and Microsoft either one pack into those boxes, we could only hope for a port to either one. There is no way that "our guys" will ever be able to deliver that amount of bang for the buck to the AmigaOS market.