As it transpires I am not able to transfer the license for the A1-SE I bought LINK from the prevous owner. Before i buy the pre-release at full price I need some information:

Firstly: I've come across a few posts relating to problems installing the final update on A1-SE.
(The big question) Has anyone managed to install OS4 the final update on the A1-SE, and if so is it stable?

Secondly: The A1-SE hardware limitations (features) - I've been searching around for info, and I seem to come across mainly old and contradictory information so I'm hoping for some definite answers:

These questions relate ONLY to the A1-SE:

_DMA_
Some sites suggest that problems only occur when the on-board lan and on-board IDE controllers are active simultaneously.
The suggested fix appears to be using a PCI IDE controller.

Other sites suggest DMA will not work at all, and that PIO-4 is the best the A1-SE will do.

Which is it? Are either accurate?

_USB_
Some sites suggest that USB will not work at all.
Other sites suggest replacing/resoldering some SMD components will fix the problem.

Are either accurate? Alternatively, is there a PCI USB solution which will work? If so, is the USB card autoconfigured by the BIOS, or does it require a USB stack running in OS4 to work?

_LAN_
Only problem seems to be the DMA issue.
Is there any other problem?

_Everything else_
Is there anything else I should know?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to try to provide some answers, so far I'm just confused as to whether - in buying this Amigaone - I have a machine capable of running OS4 or not. I'm loth to spend 139 Euros at Vesalia on a pre-release CD without some further information. We'll see what the price is at Acube when the 'further announcement' is made.

Regards



Rich

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@Boot_WB
Hi there, I`m posting this from my A1G3SE via a broadband connection using IB2.4 on OS4.0 Final Update.

Everything is stable, it turns out that it`s the PIO modes that don`t work and DMA-0 that does.

USB is non functional, you can play with it and occasionally have success but it`s not reliable enough to describe as working, the hardware fix for XE models, which is basically installing missing resistors, has no effect nor does using a hub.

I have tried a PCI USB card but with no change in behaviour, it used a via chip (maybe that`s the problem), but who knows? maybe someone will find a solution that works.


Edit:I changed the SBLive soundcard for a Terratec 512i

Regards Richard.

Last edited by Draby on 25-Mar-2007 at 09:36 PM.

@Boot_WB

Quote:

_DMA_

DMA DOES work with the internal IDE and Ethernet, but it's not necessarily reliable. I was using it for a few months and recentely I decided that it was responsible for out-of-nowhere total system freezes with Tunenet. Or at least so it seemed. But that MIGHT have been due to the sound card (see signature), which is reported to cause total freezes.

(EDIT)
Hmm, I had a total freeze with PIO and Tunenet running... so it seems to be the sound card after all.

I had used DMA without Ethernet for a few months and I can confidently say that I had NO problem with it! On the other side of the coin, PIO has frequent read errors, at least on my SE. Could be Ethernet again, haven't tried it without. But WRITING seems to work fine, oddly...

Lately, I've been thinking of getting that PCI DMA card. I'd rather get a TV card, as I have many video tapes to digitise (Linux should be able to, or I may get one of those older used Pea Seas), but right now DMA will be more useful.

Quote:

_USB_

Notice my signature again. My card has a NEC chip and I could use it successfully with Linux kernel 2.6.8 and OHCI module, with a mass storage device. No Lexmark printer though (incompatible pieces of ****).

Quote:

_LAN_

Can't think of any other problem with it really.

Quote:

Is there anything else I should know?

Creative sound cards, such as mine, are known to be problematic. I only found out recently though...

Last edited by mwoof on 25-Mar-2007 at 09:43 PM.

_________________
And may the AmigaGuide you!

AmigaOne G3-SE, OS4 Final (July 2007 update), Debian Sarge, 512 MB RAM, 20 + 80 GB hard disks, NEC 3540 DVD writer, LG DVD reader, Radeon 9250, SB Live, Intracom Netfaster router, PCI USB card (NEC - OHCI/EHCI)

@Boot_WB

The basic problem with the SE is that it's PCI bus has more bugs than a week old corpse. Every single device attached to the bus, whether a physical PCI card or any of the on-board devices, is sitting on a bus that isn't behaving quite the way they expect it to.

There's no definative list of problems simply because the system is so unpredictable. Having a particular card or mix of cards fitted may alter the behaviour of the bus just enough to cause problems with something else - or, alternatively, the exact opposite.

So what other people find with their SEs doesn't mean you'll get the same results from yours. Some problems are so bad everyone gets them (USB, for example - both the on-board USB and USB PCI cards are badly broken on the SE) others are less predicatable and may or may not happen.

My advice is to not even try to install OS4 on the SE. Sell it for whatever you can get, pocket the money, and start saving for hardware that actually works.

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

@Draby

Quote:

Everything is stable, it turns out that it`s the PIO modes that don`t work and DMA-0 that does.

It does????????????

I changed it! I'll try it too!

Last edited by mwoof on 25-Mar-2007 at 09:44 PM.

_________________
And may the AmigaGuide you!

AmigaOne G3-SE, OS4 Final (July 2007 update), Debian Sarge, 512 MB RAM, 20 + 80 GB hard disks, NEC 3540 DVD writer, LG DVD reader, Radeon 9250, SB Live, Intracom Netfaster router, PCI USB card (NEC - OHCI/EHCI)

@DrBombcrater, Draby, Mwoof

It seems bizarre that such differing opinions abound

@DrBombcrater - Are you speaking from personal experience of having been an A1-SE owner, observation of other people's discussions in the fora, or as a hardware developer? I ask only because Draby and Mwoof offer such contrasting views from yours, and they are A1-SE users.
At the moment I'm tempted to install Linux, see how that fares, and then base my purchasing decision based on the stability of the hardware under linux.
I eagerly await the arrival of my ram and heatsink, so that I can install Sarge.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@DrBombcrater

Not to mention the parts common to all models:
ArticiaS
VIA686B
thrown into the mix.

I think your remarks are spot on.
Users represent the best source of information concerning all models actually, and that has been the case since the beginning.

Maybe we could get @mlehto to post though, to confirm the thoughts expressed in this thread. Or other SE users of course.

Thank you for all your posts over the years Gary! Great stuff!

I suppose a summary from our audio driver developer might help:
DaveAE:
"Indeed. Stop buying anything from Creative please, nothing but trouble."

Link to Sound Card summary by DaveAE:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2512

#6

Last edited by number6 on 25-Mar-2007 at 10:16 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 25-Mar-2007 at 10:05 PM.

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@mwoof/BootWB

I should also add that the supplied Kingston ram got changed to some from Crucial due to Memtest failures and the supplied SBLive is now a Terratec 512i because of sound/driver problems related to the SE.

So there is confirmation of some of what Dr Bombcrater says, but it`s by no means a hopeless case.

Regards Richard.

@Draby

Quote:

SBLive is now a Terratec 512i because of sound/driver problems related to the SE.

Not just SE, but XE too.
VIA686B culprit in conjunction with creative products. Fatal twosome.

#19 here.
Be sure to also click the link and read Ian Stedman's report.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 25-Mar-2007 at 10:26 PM.

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Boot_WB

Well, I think DrBombcraker has the most negative opinion about the SE that I've ever heard. Maybe because he knows too much about harware and what's under the hood, and what is supposed to be under the hood. He's gotten rid of his A1-SE as far as I know. He did it even before the OS4 final was out.

On the other hand, there are the opinion of people who use their A1-SE on a dialy basis. Which one you want to go with it definitly up to you. I just think it's only fair if I say my own opinion as one who uses his A1-SE on a daily basis.

I have long quit using the on-board IDE controller. I have a Sil0680 PCI IDE controller that works in DMA 133 mode without any problems. Actually the file transfers on my A1-SE (G3 600 Mhz) are faster than the same on my Micro-A1 (G3 800Mhz with the on-board IDE, which can only do DMA 100). So, with a Sil0680, doing DMA is no problem in OS4 final. My DVD-ROM and CD-Writer on the A1-SE work flawless too. Now, the better news is that I haven't experineced DMA problems in my Linux installation (Debian Sarge, kernel 2.6.8) either. My A1-SE even runs Mac-on-Linux and it's very stable.

I have a SoundBlaster Live! PCI sound card. I use AmigaAMP and TuneNet everyday, while I'm surfing the net. I have cable internet with DHCP. With OS4 final my A1-SE never dropped the connection, and I never encountered a downloaded file which had gotten corrupted. So, both sound and network connection are rock solid stable on my machine. I haven't had one single problem with sound and network in Linux either.

OS4 final is very stable. The problems that I encounter all relate to 68K programs that break the momery allocation scheme of OS4 final. These are not limited to the A1-SE. On Micro-A1, the same programs crash too.

So, to sum up, my A1-SE does exactly whatever my Micro-A1 does without any problems (file transfers are even faster on the A1-SE due to faster DMA, and I have a 64MB radeon 7000 on the A1-SE, which perfomes better compared to the 32MB on-board readeon 7000 on the Micro-A1). So, although the CPU power of the Micro-A1 is better, I get better overall performance on my A1-SE when playing PlayStation 1 games emulated via FPSE.


HOWEVER, I have had no luck with the on-board USB of the A1-SE no matter what I did. I never tried any PCI USB cards though.

I hope this is useful to you. Let me know if you need clarifications, or have more questions.

Firbodi

_________________
MicroA1 G3, 512MB RAM, DVD-RW; and A1-SE G3,512MB RAM, CD-RW & DVD-ROM
Avatar: Perspolis, Capital of Achaemenid Empire 500 B.C.

@firbodi

Good post as always!!
It is certainly true that depending on what one does with their A1, they could see either no issues or many issues.
I don't post for the engineers to express negativity over the issues. It is just there for reference for those doing problem solving.
If anything, turn this around, and say that illustrating these issue proves that Hyperion, the Friedens, and the OS4 team has done a remarkable job getting these machine to perform as they do.

More posts from SE owners are certainly welcome.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Boot_WB

HI!

Here all works ok from the day that I've completely deactivated usb(removed kernel modules from kikclayout file in kickstart:)...
Unfortunately USB was VERY BAD on SE

GOOD play!

Tuxedo

_________________
Simone"Tuxedo"Monsignori, Perugia, ITALY.

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @firbodi Good post as always!!

Thank you.

Quote:

It is certainly true that depending on what one does with their A1, they could see either no issues or many issues.

True! For example, using a PCI IDE controller on my system might have somehow isolated the interference between the VIA and the sound card, which may have caused problems for some users.

Quote:

If anything, turn this around, and say that illustrating these issue proves that Hyperion, the Friedens, and the OS4 team has done a remarkable job getting these machine to perform as they do.

I can't agree more. They have done a wonderful job. We should thank people who have ported/improved the Linux kernel to/for the A1 too. They've done a remarkable job.

Firbodi

_________________
MicroA1 G3, 512MB RAM, DVD-RW; and A1-SE G3,512MB RAM, CD-RW & DVD-ROM
Avatar: Perspolis, Capital of Achaemenid Empire 500 B.C.

@Boot_WB

Quote:

@DrBombcrater - Are you speaking from personal experience of having been an A1-SE owner, observation of other people's discussions in the fora, or as a hardware developer? I ask only because Draby and Mwoof offer such contrasting views from yours, and they are A1-SE users.

I'm an ex-SE owner, and my thoughts on this issue are based both on personal investigations into its problems (mainly while I was developing the SetA1 hardware tweaking utility) and from years of reading the experiences of other SE owners.

The A1-SE is probably the worst motherboard I've encountered in 24 years of using and abusing computers, but that's not to say it is worthless. If you use it only for lightweight, undemanding tasks, and are prepared to work to find a stable setup and then resist any temptation to change that setup, then the SE may be worth keeping.

But from my personal perspective hardware that needs numerous work-arounds and constant babysitting is worse than useless. Selling the SE and going back to using Amithlon is something I've never regretted.

_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

It seems that mileage may vary.

In 4 and a half years, I've had precisely 1 noticeable stability problem, which was under Linux 4 years ago before AmigaOS 4 was released in any version to non-beatatesters.

Onboard IDE has been replaced with a SIL card, sound is from a £5 sound card (CMI 8338 chip?), USB is not used at all (no need for it). The machine is used every day for standard tasks: email, web, coding, video (frequently used to watch videos played over a 100Mb LAN connection at perfectly acceptable rate).

The A1 + OS4 combo is easily the most stable Amiga solution I've used except for a completely vanilla A600.

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@Boot_WB

USB is definetly _broken_.

It is impossible to get it to work with additional usb-card. It _CAN_ be driver/firmware situation allso, alltough some says ,that it is because broken PCI. I don't know wich is true, anyway it is next to impossible to get to work.

I'm failed to get two memory sticks to work in conjuction. alltough it is difficult in XE too (?).

I have A1-SE with 0680 sil ("workaround" for ide probs), onboard ide disabled, terratec sound card, 9250 graphics card and compatible kingston memory stick. And I had difficulties to get suitable power supply. Some really low power model is needed, since A1Se seems to pretty picky about power supply. Partially because of low power consumption and partially because of mobo desingn.

Overall I don't have any stability problems.

@Boot_WB

I have A1SE, Si0680 card for IDE devices, Radeon 7000 gfx, Juli@ soundcard. USB doesn't work like everybody else is saying. (I don't need USB ATM.) There's almost always some extra noise in sound when playing music. No other problems. I think I will replace this mobo with a new one if there will be any new OS4 compatible mobos in future (and if I will have enough money).

@mlehto or anybody else
Do you have any problems with your Terratec soundcard ?

_________________
Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Tomppeli

No I don't. Alltough I can speak only my experiences. I rarely use my amiga to anything with sound.

As anyone can see from you avatar and your ultra cool guitar, you may use it to music...

@mlehto

Quote:

I'm failed to get two memory sticks to work in conjuction. alltough it is difficult in XE too (?).

All models, although we are currently running external tests on sticks (yes, again).

#6

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Boot_WB

I use a Pegasos 1 running MorphOS 1.4.5 with neither of the "April" hardware fixes for the Artica-S chipset, so it is very much the same as an A1-SE for all intents and purposes.

I use a PCI Realtek 8139D with the OpenPCI driver instead of the onboard VIA ethernet chip, and a Soundblaster Live! PCI soundcard (the original gold plated version from 1999) with the latest AHI v6 instead of the onboard VIA soundchip.

The hard drive is using UDMA, and I have one 128MB ECC Registered SDRAM stick from Crucial.

I don't have any trouble with corrupted sound or files, though ocasionally the machine will just freeze completely though I think this is more to do with the software running at the time (Sputnik browser and/or VNCServer) as it very very rarely happens.

Hope this is of some help to you.

_________________
Ya Husayn!