@TMTisFree

Quote:

You just see the plot not read it

Semantics again... Part of reading the plot is understanding what data exists and relating it's representation. Something lacking that you've tried to dance around.

Quote:

We are dealing with studies that claim a four digit accuracy with past and current pH methods although past and current real world significant accuracy for pH methods is 0.2 and 0.1 unit respectively.

To be clear we have had better than .1pH accuracy for many years.

Quote:

Making money is not my concern for theses companies, it is their intrinsic function, so that they are pro or anti AGW is irrelevant.

Sorry but I disagree with your attitude that selfishness for a buck no matter the cost is a good. Not only is this philosophy morally corrupt we see the condition of the US and the world today and it's economically corrupt.

As for the quotes there are silly ones on both sides. I don't believe it adds anything to understanding. Instead it's a thinly vieled ad hominen attack in an attempt to create a strawman.

Last edited by BrianK on 11-Feb-2009 at 12:28 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Semantics again... Part of reading the plot is understanding what data exists and relating it's representation. Something lacking that you've tried to dance around.

Skimming through has sometimes its drawbacks. You have superficially read the plot and have not saw the papers on which the plot is based. Feel free to get them, check the data and build the plot yourself.

Quote:

To be clear we have had better than .1pH accuracy for many years.

That is what manuals state, not what is the real world measured accuracy.

Quote:

Sorry but I disagree with your attitude that selfishness for a buck no matter the cost is a good. Not only is this philosophy morally corrupt we see the condition of the US and the world today and it's economically corrupt.

How the economy is today is the direct consequence of decades of policies against energy, wanted and influenced by the environmentalist lobby (last example: on 29, jan 2009, the California State Lands Commission (SLC) has rejected a proposal that would have led to the first new oil drilling project off the California coast in 40 years) hidden in the name of ecology but really in order to fulfil its ideological agenda (world control through life regulation and global gouvernance by an 'elite'). I prefer a corrupted system rather than an ideological enslavement.

Quote:

I don't believe it adds anything to understanding. Instead it's a thinly vieled ad hominen attack in an attempt to create a strawman.

I understand your difficult position: being revealed that the global warming theory is a part of a greater plan elaborated by some our leaders, worshippers of the New Age cult of Gaia is somewhat confusing. I will spend some of my next posts to draw what is the real goal of these new kind of religious apostles.

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The 'energy' and 'technology' approach of the fanatical environmentalists from the Gaia religion:

Quote:

"The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet."

Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation

Quote:

"A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation."

Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies

Quote:

"The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can't let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are."

Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund

Quote:

"Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control."

Professor Maurice King

Quote:

"We must make this an insecure and inhospitable place for capitalists and their projects. We must reclaim the roads and plowed land, halt dam construction, tear down existing dams, free shackled rivers and return to wilderness millions of acres of presently settled land."

David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

Quote:

"Complex technology of any sort is an assault on human dignity. It would be little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy, because of what we might do with it."

Amory Lovins, Rocky Mountain Institute


Edit: added these 2 instructive quotes:
Quote:

"Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun."

Prof Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University

Quote:

"Our insatiable drive to rummage deep beneath the surface of the earth is a willful expansion of our dysfunctional civilization into Nature."

Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

Bye,
TMTisFree

Last edited by TMTisFree on 11-Feb-2009 at 02:36 PM.

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The 'human' approach of the fanatical environmentalists from the Gaia religion:

I quoted some of them in my previous posts.

Quote:

"The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil."

Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview

Quote:

"My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world."

Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!

Quote:

"Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class - involving high meat intake, use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing - are not sustainable."

Maurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit

Quote:

"Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth."

Michael Fox, vice-president of The Humane Society

Quote:

"Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor."

Sir James Lovelock, Healing Gaia

Quote:

"The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man."

Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

Quote:

"A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells; the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions.''

Prof Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb

Quote:

"I don't claim to have any special interest in natural history, but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in the number of game animals and the need to adjust the cull to the size of the surplus population."

Prince Philip, preface of Down to Earth

Quote:

"A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible."

United Nations, Global Biodiversity Assessment

Quote:

"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."

Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor

Quote:

"... the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion."

Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind

Quote:

"If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."

Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund

Quote:

"I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems."

John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal

Quote:

"The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing."

Christopher Manes, Earth First!

Quote:

"Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."

David Brower, first Executive Director of the Sierra Club

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The 'religious' approach of the fanatical environmentalists from the Gaia religion:

Quote:

The earth is literally our mother, not only because we depend on her for nurture and shelter but even more because the human species has been shaped by her in the womb of evolution.... Our salvation depends upon our ability to create a religion of nature."

Rene Dubos, board member, Planetary Citizens

Quote:

What if Mary is another name for Gaia? Then her capacity for virgin birth is no miracle . . . it is a role of Gaia since life began . . . She is of this Universe and, conceivably, a part of God. On Earth, she is the source of life everlasting and is alive now; she gave birth to humankind and we are part of her.

Sir James Lovelock, Ages of Gaia

Quote:

Still more important is the implication that the evolution of homo sapiens, with his technological inventiveness and his increasingly subtle communications network, has vastly increased Gaia's range of perception. She is now through us awake and aware of herself. She has seen the reflection of her fair face through the eyes of astronauts and the television cameras of orbiting spacecraft. Our sensations of wonder and pleasure, our capacity for conscious thought and speculation, our restless curiosity and drive are hers to share. This new interrelationship of Gaia with man is by no means fully established; we are not yet a truly collective species, corralled and tamed as an integral part of the biosphere, as we are as individual creatures. It may be that the destiny of mankind is to become tamed, so that the fierce, destructive, and greedy forces of tribalism and nationalism are fused into a compulsive urge to belong to the commonwealth of all creatures which constitutes Gaia.

Sir James Lovelock, Gaia: A New Look At Life

Quote:

Each element, plant, insect, fish and animal represents a certain aspect of Gaia's - and our - being. In a way, we are Gaia's intelligence and awareness - currently lost in self-destructive madness. We must acknowledge, respect and love her for being the Mother she is to us or we deny our very selves. Nurture the Mother as she nurtures us.

Prof. Michael J. Cohen, Ecopsychologist

Quote:

It is the responsibility of each human being today to choose between the force of darkness and the force of light. We must therefore transform our attitudes, and adopt a renewed respect for the superior laws of Divine Nature.

Maurice Strong, first Secretary General of UNEP

Quote:

The spirit of our planet is stirring! The Consciousness of Goddess Earth is now rising against all odds, in spite of millennia of suppression, repression and oppression inflicted on Her by a hubristic and misguided humanity. The Earth is a living entity, a biological organism with psychic and spiritual dimensions. With the expansion of the patriarchal religions that focused on a male God majestically stationed in Heaven ruling over the Earth and the Universe, the memory of our planet's innate Divinity was repressed and banished into the collective unconscious of humanity.

Envision Earth

Quote:

Little by little a planetary prayer book is thus being composed by an increasingly united humanity seeking its oneness. Once again, but this time on a universal scale, humankind is seeking no less than its reunion with 'divine,' its transcendence into higher forms of life. Hindus call our earth Brahma, or God, for they rightly see no difference between our earth and the divine. This ancient simple truth is slowly dawning again upon humanity, as we are about to enter our cosmic age and become what we were always meant to be: the planet of god.

Robert Muller, UN Assistant Secretary General

Quote:

Nature is my god. To me, nature is sacred; trees are my temples and forests are my cathedrals.

Mikhail Gorbachev, Green Cross International

Quote:

The spiritual sense of our place in nature... can be traced to the origins of human civilization.... The last vestige of organized goddess worship was eliminated by Christianity.

Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

Quote:

Christianity is our foe. If animal rights is to succeed, we must destroy the Judeo-Christian Religious tradition.

Peter Singer, founder of Animal Rights

Quote:

"The earth is not dead matter. She is alive. Now begin to speak to the earth as you walk. You can speak out loud, or just talk to her in your mind. Send your love into her with your exhalation. Feel your heart touching upon the heart of the planet. Say to her whatever words come to you: Mother Earth, I love you. Mother Earth, I bless you. May you be healed. May all your creatures be happy. Peace to you, Mother Earth. On behalf of the human race, I ask forgiveness for having injured you. Forgive us, Mother Earth"

US Student Textbook, "Prayer to the Earth"

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The 'crisis and tipping point' approach of the fanatical environmentalists from the Gaia religion:

Quote:

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis..."

David Rockefeller, Club of Rome executive member

Quote:

"The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level."

Al Gore, Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech

Quote:

"Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the world's scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send our entire planet's climate system into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced - a catastrophe of our own making."

Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth

Quote:

"We are getting close to catastrophic tipping points, despite the fact that most people barely notice the warming yet."

Dr James Hansen, NASA researcher

Quote:

"By the end of this century climate change will reduce the human population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic."

Sir James Lovelock, Revenge of Gaia

Quote:

"Climate Change will result in a catastrophic global sea level rise of seven meters. That's bye-bye most of Bangladesh, Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis."

Greenpeace International

Quote:

"Climate Change is the greatest threat that human civilization has ever faced."

Angela Merkel, German Chancellor

Quote:

"Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it's here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon: the man-made natural disaster."

Barak Obama, US Presidential Candidate

Quote:

"This planet is on course for a catastrophe. The existence of Life itself is at stake."

Dr Tim Flannery, Principal Research Scientist

Quote:

"We simply must do everything we can in our power to slow down global warming before it is too late."

Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California

Quote:

"Climate change should be seen as the greatest challenge to ever face mankind."

Prince Charles

Quote:

"Climate change makes us all global citizens, we are truly all in this together."

Gordon Brown, British Prime Minister

Quote:

"We have reached the critical moment of decision on climate change. Failure to act to now would be deeply and unforgivably irresponsible. We urgently require a global environmental revolution."

Tony Blair, former British PM

Quote:

"We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth."

Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The 'method' of the fanatical environmentalists from the Gaia religion:

Quote:

"The emerging 'environmentalization' of our civilization and the need for vigorous action in the interest of the entire global community will inevitably have multiple political consequences. Perhaps the most important of them will be a gradual change in the status of the United Nations. Inevitably, it must assume some aspects of a world government."

Mikhail Gorbachev, State of the World Forum

Quote:

"In Nature organic growth proceeds according to a Master Plan, a Blueprint. Such a ‘master plan’ is missing from the process of growth and development of the world system. Now is the time to draw up a master plan for sustainable growth and world development based on global allocation of all resources and a new global economic system. Ten or twenty years form today it will probably be too late."

Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point

Quote:

"The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation."

UN Commission on Global Governance report

Quote:

"Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time."

Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution

Quote:

"In my view, after fifty years of service in the United Nations system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet. We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways."

Dr Robert Muller, UN Assistant Secretary General

Quote:

"We need a new paradigm of development in which the environment will be a priority. World civilization as we know it will soon end. We have very little time and we must act. If we can address the environmental problem, it will have to be done within a new system, a new paradigm. We have to change our mindset, the way humankind views the world."

Mikhail Gorbachev, State of the World Forum

Quote:

"Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty to the international community and beginning to create a new system of international environmental governance as a means of solving otherwise unmanageable crises."

Lester Brown, WorldWatch Institute

Quote:

"[The Earth Summit will play an important role in] reforming and strengthening the United Nations as the centerpiece of the emerging system of democratic global governance."

Maurice Strong, september 1, 1997 edition of National Review magazine

Quote:

"The concept of national sovereignty has been an immutable, indeed sacred, principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation. It is simply not feasible for sovereignty to be exercised unilaterally by individual nation states, however powerful. The global community must be assured of environmental security."

Maurice Strong at the 1992 Earth Summit

Quote:

"Regionalism must precede globalism. We foresee a seamless system of governance from local communities, individual states, regional unions and up through to the United Nations itself."

UN Commission on Global Governance

The winner of the most hypocritical quote:
Quote:

"We require a central organizing principle - one agreed to voluntarily. Minor shifts in policy, moderate improvement in laws and regulations, rhetoric offered in lieu of genuine change - these are all forms of appeasement, designed to satisfy the public’s desire to believe that sacrifice, struggle and a wrenching transformation of society will not be necessary."

Al Gore, Earth in the Balance

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The 'Agenda21' of the fanatical environmentalists from the Gaia religion. It was the outcome of the UN's Earth Summit held in Rio de Janeiro in 1992. Agenda21 is the vision of a centrally managed global society. It is a contract between governments and UN to plan and control the way we live, eat, learn, move and communicate, all under the noble banner of saving the earth.
If fully implemented, Agenda21 would have the world government involved in every aspect of life of every human on earth.

Some quote from Agenda21:
Quote:

"Effective execution of Agenda21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level."

Quote:

”Each local authority should enter into a dialogue with its citizens, local organizations, and private enterprises and formulate 'a Local Agenda21.' Through consultation and consensus-building, local authorities would learn from citizens and from local, civic, community, business and industrial organizations and acquire the information needed for formulating the best strategies.”

Agenda 21, Chapter 28, sec 1.3. Source: Agenda21

Only by reading the TOC, you will see that Agenda21 addresses nearly every aspect of modern life.

Some quotes of the first chapter:
1.1 "Humanity stands at a defining moment in history...in a global partnership for sustainable development."
1.2 "...global partnership..."
1.3 "preparing the world for the challenges of the next century...a global consensus and political commitment at the highest level...the United Nations system has a key role to play...the active involvement of the non-governmental organizations..."
1.4 "...environmental objectives of Agenda21 will require a substantial flow of new and additional financial resources..."
1.5 ""
1.6 "...a new global partnership for sustainable development."

I sense a pattern here, both historically speaking and scientifically speaking...

Bye,
TMTisFree

Last edited by TMTisFree on 11-Feb-2009 at 05:15 PM.
Last edited by TMTisFree on 11-Feb-2009 at 03:55 PM.

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The 'concept' behind the religious fanatical behind the Gaia cult:

Its name is 'environmental sustainability'. It was coined in 1972 by the Club of Rome (CoR) in its book 'The Limits to Growth'. The report basically concluded that the growth of the human population, and an increase in prosperity, would cause an ecological collapse within the next hundred years. In 3 decades, the CoR has not changed its views except to become increasingly more urgent and alarmist. Throughout the 1970s and 80s this concept has gained credence and facilitated the formation of mainstream and activist environmental groups. In addition, many United Nations documents, policies, programmes and conferences has been (co)authored by CoR members, who have also been top leaders in the UN administration (Maurice Strong).

20 years after the 'Limits to Growth' the CoR published 'The First Global Revolution', in which it is claimed that action has to take place now, and that current short-sighted democratic governments have to be replaced with a world governance.

In order to understand the profound implication of the scheme, below is an excerpt of the book:
Quote:

This is the way we are setting the scene for mankind’s encounter with the planet. The opposition between the two ideologies that have dominated the 20th century has collapsed, forming their own vacuum and leaving nothing but crass materialism. It is a law of Nature that any vacuum will be filled and therefore eliminated unless this is physically prevented. “Nature,” as the saying goes, “abhors a vacuum.” And people, as children of Nature, can only feel uncomfortable, even though they may not recognize that they are living in a vacuum. How then is the vacuum to be eliminated? It would seem that humans need a common motivation, namely a common adversary, to organize and act together in the vacuum; such a motivation must be found to bring the divided nations together to face an outside enemy, either a real one or else one invented for the purpose. New enemies therefore have to be identified. New strategies imagined, new weapons devised. The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself. The old democracies have functioned reasonably well over the last 200 years, but they appear now to be in a phase of complacent stagnation with little evidence of real leadership and innovation Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.

You now understand that long before Global Warming (GW) became the well known issue, Al Gore and his CoR colleagues stated that they would use the threat of GW to unite humanity and "set the scene for mankind's encounter with the planet." It is interesting to note how they use a natural phenomenon as their 'enemy' to achieve their objectives (medieval sorcery). But then they state that although Global Warming would be presented as the initial enemy, the real enemy of humanity as man himself, and frequently the terms climate change and overpopulation are wrote in the same way (see also the quotes from my previous posts on how they think to resolve the 'population problem').

So the CoR basic concept is:
Quote:

"Modern industrial civilisation is fast outstripping the Earth's natural regenerative and life-supporting capacity..." "At current rates of resource depletion and environmental degradation a near complete collapse of ecological integrity will occur within the next 100 years..." "Gaia, our Mother, who nutured humanity for countless millenia within her womb of evolution, is dying..." “A small window of opportunity now exists to transform humanity into a sustainable global interdepedant society based on respect and reverence for Earth..." "A radical change from the current trajectory is required, a complete reordering of global society..." "Humans only truly unite when faced with a powerful external enemy..." "At this time a new enemy must be found, one either real or invented for the purpose..." "Democracy has failed us, a new system of global governance, based on environmental imperatives, must be implemented quickly..."

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

You always find the same names in the quotes I previously post. Not surprising, these names are the same of those people of the Gaia cult:

Maurice Strong – former Head of the UN Environment Programme, Chief Policy Advisor to Kofi Annan, Secretary General of the Rio Earth Summit, co-author (with Gorbachev) of the Earth Charter, co-author of the Kyoto Protocol, founder of the Earth Council, devout Baha’i.

Al Gore – former VP of the USA, leading climate change campaigner, Nobel Peace Prize winner, Academy Award winner, Emmy winner, lead the US delegations to the Rio Earth Summit and Kyoto Climate Change conference, largest shareholder in the Chicago Climate Exchange.

Javier Solana – Secretary General of the Council of the European Union, High Representative for EU Foreign Policy.

M. King Hubbert – originator of the 'Peak Oil' theory that claimed oil production would begin to decline rapidly after the year 2000.

Mikhail Gorbachev – CoR executive member, former President of the Soviet Union, founder of Green Cross International and the Gorbachev Foundation, Nobel Peace Prize winner, co-founder (with Hidalgo) of the Club of Madrid, co-author (with Strong) of the Earth Charter.

Diego Hidalgo – CoR executive member, co-founder (with Gorbachev) of the Club of Madrid, founder and President of the European Council on Foreign Relations in association with George Soros.

Ervin Laszlo – founding member of the CoR, founder and President of the Club of Budapest, founder and Chairman of the World Wisdom Council.

Anne Ehrlich – Population Biologist. Married to Paul Ehrlich with whom she has authored many books on human overpopulation. Also a former director of Friends of the Earth and the Sierra Club, and a member of the UN's Global Roll of Honor.

Hassan bin Talal – President of the CoR, President of the Arab Thought Forum, founder of the World Future Council, recently named as the United Nations 'Champion of the Earth'.

Sir Crispin Tickell – former British Permanent Representative to the United Nations and Permanent Representative on the Security Council, Chairman of the ‘Gaia Society’, Chairman of the Board of the Climate Institute, leading British climate change campaigner.

Kofi Annan – former Secretary General of the United Nations. Nobel Peace Prize Laureate.

Javier Perez de Cuellar – former Secretary General of the United Nations.

Robert Muller – former Assistant Secretary General of the United Nations, founder and Chancellor of the UN University of Peace.

The Dalai Lama – The 'Spiritual Leader' of Tibet. Nobel Peace Prize Laureate.

Father Berry Thomas – Catholic Priest who is one of the leading proponents of deep ecology, ecospirituality and global consciousness.

David Rockefeller – CoR executive member, former Chairman of Chase Manhattan Bank, founder of the Trilateral Commission, executive member of the World Economic Forum, donated land on which the United Nations stands.

Steven Schneider – Stanford Professor of Biology and Global Change. Professor Schneider was among the earliest and most vocal proponents of man-made global warming and a lead author of many IPCC reports.

Bill Clinton – former President of the United States, founder of the Clinton Global Iniative.

Jimmy Carter – former President of the United States, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate.

Bill Gates – founder of Microsoft, philanthropist

Garret Hardin – Professor of Human Ecology. Originator of the 'Global Commons' concept. Has authored many controversial papers on human overpopulation and eugenics.

Ted Turner – media mogul, philanthropist, founder of CNN

George Soros – multibillionare, major donor to the UN

Tony Blair – former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

Deepak Chopra – New Age Guru

Desmond Tutu – South African Bishop and activist, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

Timothy Wirth – President of the United Nations Foundation

Henry Kissinger – former US Secretary of State

Harlan Cleveland – former Assistant US Secretary of State and NATO Ambassador

Barbara Marx Hubbard – President of the Foundation for Conscious Evolution

Betty Williams – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate

Marianne Williamson – New Age 'Spiritual Activist'

Robert Thurman – assistant to the Dalai Lama

Jane Goodall – Primatologist and Evolutionary Biologist

Juan Carlos I – King of Spain

Prince Philippe of Belgium

Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands

Dona Sophia – Queen of Spain

Karan Singh – Former Prime Minister of India, Chairman of the Temple of Understanding

Daisaku Ikeda – founder of the Soka Gakkai cult

Eduard Shevardnadze – former Soviet foreign minister and President of Georgia

Richard von Weizsacker – former President of Germany

Martin Lees – CoR Secretary General, Rector of the UN University of Peace

Ernesto Zedillo – Director of The Yale Center for the Study of Globalization

Frithjof Finkbeiner – Coordinator of the Global Marshall Plan

Franz Josef Radermacher – Founder of the Global Marshall Plan

Vaclav Havel – former President of the Czech Republic

Hans Kung – Founder of the Global Ethic Foundation

Ruud Lubbers – United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Mary Robinson – United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights

Jerome Binde – Director of Foresight, UNESCO

Koïchiro Matsuura – Current Director General of UNESCO

Federico Mayor – Former Director General of UNESCO

Tapio Kanninen – Director of Policy and Planning, United Nations

Konrad Osterwalder – Under-Secretary-General of the United Nations

Peter Johnston – Director General of European Commission

Jacques Delors – Former President of the European Commission

Domingo Jimenez-Beltran – Executive Director of the European Environment Agency

Thomas Homer-Dixon – Director of Peace and Conflict Studies, University of Toronto

Hazel Henderson – Futurist and 'evoluntionary economist'

Emeka Anyaoku – former Commonwealth Secretary General, current President of the WWF

Wangari Maathai – Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, founder of the Green Belt Movement


Our futur 'elites' perhaps?

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The 'present/future' of the Gaia cult:

The Club of Rome has recently developed a 3 year programme called 'A New Path for World Development'.

The Club of Madrid has launched the 'Road to Copenhagen', a joint programme with the UN Environment Programme intended to facilitate a binding global climate change treaty in 2009.

Another club, the Club of Budapest, has unveiled in October 2008 its 'State of Global Emergency' in which you can read:
Quote:

“If we continue on our present unsustainable path, by mid-century the Earth may become largely uninhabitable for human and most other forms of life. Such a total systems collapse could occur much sooner, however, due to runaway global warming or other ecocatastrophes, and/or by nuclear wars triggered by religious, ethnic or geopolitical conflicts or access to diminishing natural resources. The macro-trends driving these global threats and challenges have been apparent for decades and are now building toward a threshold of irreversibility. The scientific modeling of complex systems shows that when systems reach a state of critical instability, they either break down to their components or break through to a higher order of integral functioning. At these “points of no return” maintaining the status quo, or returning to a previous mode of organization and functioning, are not a feasible option. The acceleration of critical trends and cross-impacts among them indicates that the ‘window of opportunity’ for pulling out of the present global crisis and breaking through to a more peaceful and sustainable world is likely to be no more than four to five years from the end of 2008. This is close in time to the Mayan 2012 prophecy for the end of the current world. The period around the end of 2012 is likely to be a turbulent one for this and other reasons. Predictions coming from the physical sciences foresee disturbances in the geomagnetic, electromagnetic and related fields that embed the planet causing significant damage to telecommunications and impacting many aspects of human activity and health. For the esoteric traditions the end of 2012 will be the end of the known world, although the more optimistic intepretations speak of a new world taking the place of the old.”

In addition to the rehashed thoughts of the cult, it is no wonder why Hansen and Co have moved to a model driven paradigm in Climate Science: build the model, fit the data.
It is also strange how a group of top world leaders are talking about ancient Mayan prophecies.

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

Quote:

How the economy is today is the direct consequence of decades of policies against energy, wanted and influenced by the environmentalist lobby

Yeah the energy policy is causing the housing and market collapse. Dec 08 saw Exxon with the largest profits in the history of the world. They beat their own record from 2 years before. Environmentalism is clearly not have a major impact in the aspects of profit.

Quote:

I understand your difficult position: being revealed that the global warming theory is a part of a greater plan elaborated by some our leaders, worshippers of the New Age cult of Gaia is somewhat confusing.

Not a problem here. Certainly the overtaking of the world from the cabal of intelligensia using environmental factors is a conspiracy theory. These claims have the same validity as the of government faked moon landings or hiding aliens. Enjoy.

Edit: To ensure politeness.

Last edited by BrianK on 11-Feb-2009 at 06:10 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 11-Feb-2009 at 06:09 PM.

@TMTisFree

We saw that very influential members of the Club of Rome (CoR) have decided that the Earth is facing an "imminent ecological collapse" and drastic measures have to be took immediately to save Gaia from the destructive beast of capitalism. They claimed that a new enemy was required in order to unite humanity, "one either real or invented for the purpose", and that "the threat of Global Warming" is the ideal crisis.

For a Gaian activist's perspective the theory of Global Warming presents a dream scenario as it strikes at the very heart of "Gaia's greatest threat": capitalism and modern industrial society. According to them, without fossil fuels the world will be transformed into the Gaian's ecotopian vision of small sustainable human settlements, surrounded by protected wild-lands, and governed by some sort of United Earth Council. Global Warming provides a clarion call to which the 'environmentally aware' masses can rally. On the other side, the skeptics are labelled as climate change deniers, insinuating that they should be treated with the same contempt that holocaust deniers deserve.

Note that not every ecologist has embrace the Gaia cult, but the one who has are the most active and influential: the most vocal politicians and scientists currently raising alarms about Global Warming are also actively involved in the Gaia cult (and Deep Ecology). It is strange that these professional politicians and scientists that would normally give little belief to these extreme views of neopagan philosophies, not only support them but actively and vocally espouse them.

Let have a closer look at these CoR members that call themselves Gaians, refer to the Earth as 'Gaia' and speak of 'her' as a real living sentient earth-spirit:

Dr Robert Muller
=============
Worked during 53 years within the United Nations and was Assistant Secretary-General for more than 12 years (with 3 Secretaries), founder and Chancellor of the United Nations University of Peace. You can check in his biography what the guy think of himself:
Quote:

"A divine motivator ... the wise man of the UN ... the shaman of the UN ... the man through whom God speaks ... the spokesman of Christ ... a magic being ..."

He has a number of websites in which it is clear that he believes that the Earth is divine. They are very interesting reading and clearly demonstrate the link between Gaia, Global Warming and Global Governance. Remember: he was responsible for formulating many UN policies and was the architect of most UN's important environmental plans:

Quote:

"Little by little a planetary prayer book is thus being composed by an increasingly united humanity seeking its oneness. Once again, but this time on a universal scale, humankind is seeking no less than its reunion with 'divine,' its transcendence into higher forms of life. Hindus call our earth Brahma, or God, for they rightly see no difference between our earth and the divine. This ancient simple truth is slowly dawning again upon humanity, as we are about to enter our cosmic age and become what we were always meant to be: the planet of god."

Quote:

“What an incredible planet in the universe this will be when we will be one human family living in justice, peace, love and harmony with our divine Earth, with each other and with the heavens.”

Robert Muller, former UN Assistant Secretary General and Chancellor of the UN University for Peace


Next future 'elite' reviewed tomorrow.

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@BrianK

Quote:

Not a problem here. Certainly the overtaking of the world from the cabal of intelligensia using environmental factors is a conspiracy theory.

You are the one who keep writing about conspiracy theory since the beginning. The facts, dates, people, locations, reports I quote are all publicly available (even is the CoR meetings are secret).

Bye,
TMTisFree

Last edited by TMTisFree on 11-Feb-2009 at 06:58 PM.

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@BrianK and TMTisFree

Agree to disagree

Anyway, we don't know enough about the climate to be certain of anything.
The answers are in the future, that something is changing compared with 50 years ago seems like a fair conclusion, but whether it is leading towards a colder climate (in the long run) on the Northern Hemisphere and hotter on Southern Hemispehere seems to be missing from the main debate.

Here is something I stumbled upon today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrik_Svensmark

He and Nigel Calder published a book The Chilling Stars: A New Theory of Climate Change, describing the Cosmoclimatology theory that cosmic rays "have more effect on the climate than manmade CO2".

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

@tomazkid

Quote:

Agree to disagree

Many scientific data (not informations from everybody-can-edit-me sites like Wikipedia I neither consult nor link to) I provided are available on internet (to some extend: the more recent one usually need some fees to be accessible, or older ones are available through specific databases). One has to dig through scientific literature to be able to get a detailed view on a specific subject and then build his opinion. This requires work and time. There are sites that try to popularize/explain these subjects but, again, you have to find by yourself if their published materials is objective or not. As there is absolutely no consensus on anything in Science, you will always find opposite ideas to main stream position. The good thing is this ad infinitum debate allows Science to progress, the bad side is that nothing is written in stone and that you have to find yourself the responses to your questions or rely on someone else opinion.

In my recent previous posts I am merely pointing out historical/political facts that are widely available either in libraries (mainly books) and/or on the internet for free. Sources are given when needed. My opinion about the historical perspective and political motives I emphasize is the only thing on what one could disagree. Even so, it is an encouragement to everyone to not forget the recent past and trace the long term goal of such influential people and organizations who envision the future of civilization/mankind without people voices and try to fulfil their agenda using the method of gradualism teaming with the boiling frog syndrome (that is: if you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water, it’ll jump out quickly, but if you place a frog into a pot of lukewarm water and slowly turn up the heat, it will boil to death).

Quote:

Anyway, we don't know enough about the climate to be certain of anything. The answers are in the future, that something is changing compared with 50 years ago seems like a fair conclusion, but whether it is leading towards a colder climate (in the long run) on the Northern Hemisphere and hotter on Southern Hemispehere seems to be missing from the main debate.

Given this lack of knowledge and careful and honest assessments, is building worldwide policies a reasonable choice? Given the teleological motive and the gradualist method of the people/organizations building policies, are there objective decisions?

Edit: typos

Bye,
TMTisFree

Last edited by TMTisFree on 12-Feb-2009 at 10:31 AM.

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

Follow up of here.

Maurice Strong
=============
Organizer and director of the Stockholm Conference on the Human Environment (first Earth Summit, 1970), director of the U.N. Environment Program (1971), organizer of the U.N.’s 1992 environmental summit in Rio de Janeiro which leads to the controversial 1997 Kyoto Treaty, senior advisor to former United Nations' Secretary General Kofi Annan and to the President of the World Bank (1997-2005), one of the directors for the United Nations Foundation, an UN affiliated organization established by Ted Turner's $1 billion donation, head of the U.N. Development Program (UNDP, 1999-2005), involved in the U.N. Education Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) through which he promotes the Gaia cult and the Earth God religion, director of The Temple of Understanding in New York which he uses to encourage American people concerned about the environment to replace Christianity with the worship of "Mother Earth", director of the U.N.'s Business Council on Sustainable Development which tries to affect peoples' lives through U.N. policies that attempt to reduce the availability of meat products, limit the use of home and workplace air conditioners, discourage private ownership of motor vehicles, encroach on private property rights and work to reduce the number of single family homes.

Strong is the green ideologist who has corrupted the UN institutions with the Gaian cult and used its facilities for his own suspect businesses and career. He is the main author of many of the key UN environmental policies and plans including Agenda21, the Earth Charter, the Kyoto Protocol and the UN report on Global Governance. In the opening session of the 1992 Rio Earth Summit, Strong commented:
Quote:

"The concept of national sovereignty has been an immutable, indeed sacred, principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation. It is simply not feasible for sovereignty to be exercised unilaterally by individual nation states, however powerful. The global community must be assured of environmental security."

During the summit, his wife together with 300 followers (called the Wisdom-Keepers) chanted and prayed Gaia outside in order to "establish and hold the energy field".

Strong has served or is currently on the board of directors of the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (IUCN), the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF), the World Resources Institute (WRI) and is the founder of the Earth Council Alliance (ECA). It is not a surprise to find Al Gore's photo all over the ECA site as they are the most influential Gaians, both as partners in the Club de Rome. Both are also currently cashing in on the lucrative AGW/carbon sheme: Strong is on the board of directors of the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX), "the world's first and North America's only legally binding greenhouse gas emission registry reduction system for emission sources and offset projects in North America and Brazil" while Gore buys his carbon off-sets from himself by the mean of Generation Investment Management (GMI), a private equity firm which he is chairman and founder of (more of this in the Al Gore §). Both share the Malthusian view of drastic world population reduction through energy collapse.

In the book called "Beyond Interdependence: The Meshing of the World's Economy and the Earth's Ecology", Strong wrote:
Quote:

"This interlocking is the new reality of the century, with profound implications for the shape of our institutions of governance, national and international. By the year 2012, these changes must be fully integrated into our economic and political life."

Also, he outlines in the recent "Where on Earth are We Going?" a doomsday scenario of what will soon happen to Gaia unless there is "an immediate and total global transformation."

Strong described himself as:
Quote:

"a socialist in ideology, a capitalist in methodology."

Strong lives in Canada and continues, aged 79, to do businesses and political/diplomatic activities mainly in China.

Bye,
TMTisFree

Last edited by TMTisFree on 12-Feb-2009 at 06:04 PM.

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

James Lovelock
=============
Ancient scientist (worked for NASA during the 1960's), guru of the mystical Gaia cult, father of the green movement. He is to Gaia who Ron Hubbard is to scientology. If you like bad sci-fi, search for the 1974 'Atmospheric homeostasis by and for the biosphere : the Gaia hypothesis' by Lovelock. If you like good sci-fi, read 'Foundation' by Asimov. The Gaia hypothesis is that earth is a sentient super-being, an ancient goddess spirit, deserving of worship and reverence. In his 1972 book "Gaia: A new look at Life", Lovelock writes:Quote:

“All of the lifeforms on this planet are a part of Gaia - part of one spirit goddess that sustains life on earth. Since this transformation into a living system the interventions of Gaia have brought about the evolving diversity of living creatures on planet Earth.”

Gaians think and teach that the "Earth Goddess", or Mother Earth, must be protected from destructive human activity. It is this belief that fuels the environmental movement, the sustainable development concept, and a global push for the return of industrialized nations to a primitive way of life, hence the current obsession about CO², carbon, oil/gas and its avatar Global Warming.

The Gaians claim that “we are part of Nature and Nature is part of us, therefore God is part of us, and God is everywhere, and everything is God”. What Gaia is really is a new form of some ancient pagan cults of 'Earth-goddess'. In Greek mythology it was Gaia that “brought Order out of Chaos”. The current Gaia cult is a strange mixture of science, paganism, eastern mysticism and feminism. Many prominent environmental leaders, politicians, scientists, and religious leaders appear to profess a literal belief in Gaia. Gaians appear to have infiltrated every level of power at the United Nations and risen to prominent positions in many national institutions and governments. Gaia cult is at the heart of the Club of Rome/Madrid/Budapest's though.

Lovelock believes that mankind is environmentally abusing the planet, "as though the human race is a cancer". In his book 'The Revenge of Gaia', Lovelock claims that "Gaia is now fully awakened, and she is angry". He writes “just as the human body uses a fever to fight off an infection, Gaia is raising Her temperature to expel a harmful parasite – humans. Unless humans renounce their destructive ways and rejoin the diverse community of living beings in Gaia’s loving embrace then Gaia will be forced to act in order to secure Her supreme reign”.

Climatologists were the first scientists who embraced this cult. Steven Schneider, Pr of Climatology at Stanford, organized in 1989 the first 'scientific' conference to discuss 'the implications of Gaia'. He was the first most vocal supporter of the Global Warming hypothesis: Quote:

“we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public's imagination... So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts... Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”

In his book 'A New Look at Life', Lovelock wrote:Quote:

"This new interrelationship of Gaia with man is by no means fully established; we are not yet a truly collective species, corralled and tamed as an integral part of the biosphere, as we are as individual creatures. It may be that the destiny of mankind is to become tamed, so that the fierce, destructive, and greedy forces of tribalism and nationalism are fused into a compulsive urge to belong to the commonwealth of all creatures which constitutes Gaia."

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

An interesting testimony of Dr Patrick Michaels, Cato Institute, to the U.S. House of Representatives Subcommittee on Energy and Environment during their hearing of: "What are implications of climate change for national security, economic development and public health?"

Quote:

The answers to the important questions about the implications of climate change are driven by a series of computer models and mathematical simulations. First, one estimates changes in climate. Then changes these are input into a series of subsidiary models to estimate their impact. Finally, one compares putative costs of the climate change compared to the costs of mitigation by reduction or stabilization of the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide.

Quote:

...calculations of the costs of inaction, based upon models that are clearly overestimating warming to the point that they can no longer be relied upon, are likely to be similarly overestimated. In that eventuality, the costs of drastic action can easily outweigh the costs of a more measured response, consistent with what is being observed, rather than what is being erroneously modeled.

This interesting demonstration of IPCC's models' failure is here (PDF).

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

Al Gore
======
'Inventor of Internet' (and Global Warming scare), Gore is the public face of the fight against supposed man's CO² induced supposed rise in temperature during 80-90's. His devotion to the Gaia cult (he was chairman of the Club of Rome) is apparent in his book 'Earth in the Balance':Quote:

"in prehistoric Europe and much of the world was based on the worship of a single earth goddess,...they seem to confirm the notion that a goddess religion was ubiquitous through much of the world...The last vestige of organized goddess worship was eliminated by Christianity as late as the fifteenth century."

and Quote:

"The fate of mankind, as well as of religion, depends upon the emergence of a new faith in the future.' Armed with such a faith, we might find it possible to resanctify the Earth."

Using its former position of US Vice-President, Gore spreads all over the world the catastrophic views he depicted in the movie/book 'An inconvenient truth' hailed by environmentalists. An English court found at least 9 errors (scientists found 75 errors/falsehoods) and states that "the Film is a political work and promotes only one side of the argument". He was the one who claimed in 2006:Quote:

"The debate on global warming is over."

He is also the one who said:Quote:

“I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (anthropogenic global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are.”

As already indicated in the Maurice Strong section, the only operating carbon emissions trading market in the US is the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX). Not coincidentally, Al Gore’s hedge fund, Generation Investment Management, is the largest shareholder in CCX. The most vocal Global Warming alarmist is the largest shareholder in the USA’s only operating ‘carbon market’: no conflict of interest here! Strangely the carbon business of Gore is not covered by mainstream media. In The Money and Connections Behind Al Gore’s Carbon Crusade, the business network of Gore is depicted with its full hypocrisy.

Bye,
TMTisFree

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".