@TMTisFree

Mikhail Gorbachev
===============
Former President of the Soviet Union, now founder and chairman of Green Cross International and the Gorbachev Foundation. Organizer of the State of the World Forum in 1996 where all the New Age and environmental supporters were present: Shirley MacLaine, Dennis Weaver, John Denver, John Naisbitt, Carl Sagan, Ted Turner and Jane Fonda, Barbara Marx Hubbard, Maurice Strong, Robert Muller, Dr. Deepak Chopra, Matthew Fox, etc.Quote:

“We need a new paradigm of development in which the environment will be a priority... World civilization as we know it will soon end... We have very little time and we must act... If we can address the environment problem, we have hope... but it will have to be done within a new system, a new paradigm... We have to change our mindset - the way humankind views the world."

Mikhail Gorbachev, State of the World Forum, 1996

After the dismantle of the Soviet Union, he has been intimately involved in politics of the environmental movement and is considered to be one of its greatest champions. In association with Maurice Strong, Gorbachev was responsible for the production of the Earth Charter. He also is a member of the Club of Rome. The cult of Gaia is obviously present:Quote:

"Nature is my god. To me, nature is sacred; trees are my temples and forests are my cathedrals."

Mikhail Gorbachev


Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh
==========================
Co-founder, former President and current Patron of the World Wildlife Fund for Nature (WWF). Deeply involved in environmentalism since its inception, he founded in 1971 an organisation called 'The 1001 Club: A Nature Trust' to fund the activities of the WWF. The members list is confidential (some known members are from the Club of Rome, Maurice Strong, Edmund de Rothschild, David Rockefeller and some other fascists, dictator, brother of terrorist, etc). The 1001 Club is a secret organization amongst a network of green societies with political goals: check this well documented article to have a overview of this jungle and and very interesting historical perspective.

The Prince appears to adhere strongly to the Deep Ecology philosophy that considers humans to be nothing more than a feral pest species that must be strictly controlled:Quote:

“In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation.“

in 'If I Were an Animal'
Quote:

“I don't claim to have any special interest in natural history, but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in the number of game animals and the need to adjust the cull to the size of the surplus population.“

in 'Down to Earth'

He is also a deep devout of the Gaia cult:Quote:

“It is now apparent that the ecological pragmatism of the so-called pagan religions, such as that of the American Indians, the Polynesians, and the Australian Aborigines, was a great deal more realistic in terms of conservation ethics than the more intellectual monotheistic philosophies of the revealed religions.“

in conference 'Caring for Creation' of the North American Conference on Religion and Ecology


Steven Schneider
==============
Stanford Professor of Biology and Global Change [sic], earliest and most vocal proponents of man-made global warming, lead author of many IPCC reports, and a strong supporter of the Gaia cult:Quote:

the Gaia Hypothesis has now become established in mainstream science.

in 'Scientists on Gaia'


Ted Turner
=========
Multibillionnaire and founder of a mass media empire (CNN, etc), donor of billion $ to the UN to specifically fund the IPCC. He is deeply involved in the green movement and also embraced the Gaia cult:Quote:

"Gaia, the spirit of Earth, awakens from a century long sleep to find the Earth in peril. She summons five teenagers, the Planeteers, from around the globe, and gives each of them a ring which controls an element of nature - Earth, Fire, Wind, Water - and a special power, Heart, which allows them to use their new powers wisely and compassionately."

He personally conceived and produced 'Captain Planet' an edu-tainment cartoon designed to brainwash children.


To end the circle, our sponsor:
Richard Branson
==============
Also a multibillionaire, founder of the Virgin group, jumped on board the Global Warming bandwagon after a brief meet with Al Gore. He said: Quote:

"my views on global warming were changed 180 degrees."

Branson has since pledged to donate three billion dollars to "fund the fight against climate change", and launched his 'Climate Challenge' which offers a prize of $25 million to anyone who can remove CO² from the atmosphere. The panel of judges for this challenge are the usual suspects Al Gore, James Lovelock, Sir Crispin Tickell, Tim Flannery and James Hansen. Branson is also a fervent Gaian:Quote:

"[About future energy] It will have to be a mix of the best solutions from all these areas that will win the battle to keep CO2 levels below those at which Gaia will strike back at some stage, and kill the problem - in this case us ."

in Friend of Earth interview


Ok let stop it right now as it can go on forever by listing literally dozens of other Club of Rome and other 'green' organizations members who refer to the Earth as a sentient divine being called Gaia and are also very actively involved in the Climate Campaign.

It is clear that The cult of Gaia and Anthropogenic Global Warming are intimately entwined.

Bye,
TMTisFree

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@TMTisFree

> The 'human' approach of the fanatical environmentalists from the Gaia religion:

I would certainly not call that fanatical. There *are* far too many people especially in the European nations where we almost live on top of each other.

Even in low population areas such as northern Scotalnad there are far too many houses being built everywhere.

Over population is the major problem today and it is still exponentially increasing.

What is wong is that no governemnts have the guts to do anything to limit their poulations but pander to the ignorant that breed like rabbits and hence give them more votes.

@BillE

Quote:

I would certainly not call that fanatical. There *are* far too many people especially in the European nations where we almost live on top of each other.

Reread some of the quote I provided. If this is not fanaticism then one must thank and help terrorists to continue killing people. FYI there are far more vast regions in Europe that are in the way of desertification/depopulation than overpopulated (Europe population is declining).

Quote:

Even in low population areas such as northern Scotalnad there are far too many houses being built everywhere.

You are educated enough to know the 'normal' number of people. Do you calculate it as a ratio of surface? Are you a supporter of the probably incoming laws that will regulate the UK population (note that I have nothing against limiting the nefarious power of the Britannic Empire through natality entanglement)? Suggest such a law in a Latin country and you have a civil war in the minute.

Quote:

Over population is the major problem today and it is still exponentially increasing.

Strange that you are stating a fear dating from the 60's when the world population was 3 billions. Or are you repeating the sentence because it has been repeated to you? Are you denying to women their fundamental right and liberty to procreate? And please check you fact: the world population is linearly increasing since the last 50 years.

Quote:

What is wong is that no governemnts have the guts to do anything to limit their poulations but pander to the ignorant that breed like rabbits and hence give them more votes.

You respond to my next question, thanks.

Bye,
TMTisFree

Last edited by TMTisFree on 15-Feb-2009 at 12:25 PM.

_________________
The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source".
The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@BillE

Quote:

> The 'human' approach of the fanatical environmentalists from the Gaia religion: I would certainly not call that fanatical. There *are* far too many people especially in the European nations where we almost live on top of each other. Even in low population areas such as northern Scotalnad there are far too many houses being built everywhere. Over population is the major problem today and it is still exponentially increasing. What is wong is that no governemnts have the guts to do anything to limit their poulations but pander to the ignorant that breed like rabbits and hence give them more votes.

"Overpopulation" is nothing new.

The debate has been going on for over 200 years.

And regarding goverments, have you missed the Chinese "one child per family" rule?
Here in Western Europe it seems to be a lot about economics, quite a few Western European countries has introduced different economic support measures just to raise the average birth rates so the age pyramids would not collapse.

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@tomazkid

Quote:

Here in Western Europe it seems to be a lot about economics, quite a few Western European countries has introduced different economic support measures just to raise the average birth rates so the age pyramids would not collapse.

and how do you feal about this?

_________________
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@BillE

Quote:

Over population is the major problem today and it is still exponentially increasing.

About 9 billion is the projected maximum. It is certainly true that massive population amplifies every issue including human relations with the rest of the biosphere. I suspect though that the fundamental force is that of desire, what we want, what we are attached too, what has driven our very conception.

Noel

@TMTisFree

Quote:

It is clear that The cult of Gaia and Anthropogenic Global Warming are intimately entwined.

I am reminded of earlier days when "reds under the bed" was the prevailing paranoia. One could not advance any cause toward social good without being labelled some kind of red. Now you are endeavouring to demonize anyone with a sense, of whatever kind, of some unity of life as the exponent of a sinister gaian cult bordering on the terrorist and definitely fanatic. All those wo are concerned with the environment, the biosphere, the human impact on these and the climate are obviously part of the gaian cult - how silly!

Noel

@NoelFuller

Anyone can voluntarily advance causes towards a social benefit.
But the "Red" way means the Government owns your life, denies your liberty, and will force you to comply.
What if you don't want to follow, or you want to contribute in a different way?
You'll be fined, imprisoned, or killed.

Last edited by logicalheart on 16-Feb-2009 at 06:27 AM.

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@NoelFuller

Quote:

NoelFuller wrote: @TMTisFree Quote: It is clear that The cult of Gaia and Anthropogenic Global Warming are intimately entwined. I am reminded of earlier days when "reds under the bed" was the prevailing paranoia. One could not advance any cause toward social good without being labelled some kind of red. Now you are endeavouring to demonize anyone with a sense, of whatever kind, of some unity of life as the exponent of a sinister gaian cult bordering on the terrorist and definitely fanatic. All those wo are concerned with the environment, the biosphere, the human impact on these and the climate are obviously part of the gaian cult - how silly! Noel

Let me state it clearly: most 'green' people are honest, peaceful and real ecologists, ie who do care and are really concerned about our environment and take ecology as a Science (either fundamental or applied). They are respectable people that work 'on the ground' and have my profound respect for what they do.

On the other side, there is a clique of already powerful leaders, most being the richiest on this planet, who want to impose gradually their views and ideas on what the world has to be for their own interest, 'ombrelling', I repeat, the noble cause of ecology to fulfil their nefarious envision. This influential clique and its network already possess between 50% and 2/3 of the richness of the planet. They are not red, most are capitalist, they used 'green' organizations, associations and people together with a mythological cult to reach their new world order goal.

The facts, reports, dates, locations, organizations people I wrote in the previous posts are all verified and verifiable by everyone [except the following short cut: I put President Obama in the Gaian lot in this post because of Holdren Gaian's view (his friendship with the Gaian Paul Erlich)]. The nebula of 'green' organizations/associations/societies, secret or not, is astonishing as is the amount of money circulating in this network. No politician or journalist can resist to its corruption, especially in the third world.

Edit: typos

Bye,
TMTisFree

Last edited by TMTisFree on 16-Feb-2009 at 08:48 AM.

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The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@NoelFuller

If you don't already, may I suggest you read this post for another perspective?

Bye,
TMTisFree

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The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
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The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@NoelFuller

You are exactly right.

Here is one list of identifying marks of a 'Conspiracy Theory'. Confidence in such classification improves the more such features are exhibited: And it's relation to the 'Cult of Gaia' here as :Yes/No at the end.
1. Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence: Yes. There's limited evidence at best displayed here.

2. Addresses an event or process that has broad historical or emotional impact; Yes. Clearly the 'Cult of Gaia' (CoG) excuse protects those who front this as a fear of the massive overtaking of the world to bring a New World Order (tm).

3. Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions; Yes. Clearly the CoG is structure from simple actions of understanding our actions have interactions on the planet to the realm of really this group wants to turn your soul away from Jesus Christ.

4. Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators; Yes clearly Al Gore is leading this CoG to overtake the world. There is clearly no untouched group that cares for the environment. They are all arms of the CoG 'superpower'.

5. Allots superhuman talents or resources to conspirators; Yes, The claim of the world's wealthy coming together to steal even more from us is part of CoG.

6. Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning; Yes. This is readily apparent in the claims of the CoG moonbat supporters here.

7. Appeals to 'common sense'; Yes. Definitely an attempt to let common sense over take scientific evidence in the CoG.

8. Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies; Yes. Strawmen, ad hominem, etc. are all over the CoG claim it's like shooting fish in a barrell.

9. Is produced and circulated by 'outsiders', often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review; Yes. Clearly the CoG is purposed by outsiders and often 'Christian' leaders trying to read the tea leaves.

10. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science; Yes. No comment needed.

11. Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities; Yes.

12. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative; Yes. CoG is clearly one way the anti-gw community excuse actions of the scientists. 'Sure the scientists say this cuz they are working together supported by the rich to get us.'.


CULT of GAIA is working to over take the world. --- Loony Moonbattery of a false conspiracy.

@BrianK

What is demonstrated in extenso above is the usual preference of rhetoric not even loosely or remotely connected with the matter over the plain fact: a non surprise, it's the trait of the nihil argumentum of the AGW crowd.

As you found your '12 commandments' in Wikipedia (which seems to be your only source of informations btw), why don't you put a link instead of plagiarize the article and mislead everyone that you have done the work yourself? That is plainly disgusting and disingenuous

Quote:

"When smart people do not want to understand, it is common that they succeed better than the fools"

André Gide, French humanist and writer

Bye,
TMTisFree

Last edited by TMTisFree on 16-Feb-2009 at 06:25 PM.
Last edited by TMTisFree on 16-Feb-2009 at 04:26 PM.

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@BrianK

Simple rules for you:

Rule 1: when faced with a difficult issue, do not respond by posting an article that mislead the facts.
Rule 2: if you violate rule 1, and the post comes back to bite you, recognize it was your own fault you chose to violate rule 1. Promise yourself to remember rule 1.

Hope this helps.

Bye,
TMTisFree

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The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

The invention of ideology:



Bye,
TMTisFree

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The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

Apply it:



Bye,
TMTisFree

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The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer".
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The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts".

@TMTisFree

Quote:

What is demonstrated in extenso above is the usual preference of rhetoric not even loosely or remotely connected with the matter over the plain fact: a non surprise, it's the trait of the nihil argumentum of the AGW crowd

Did you purposefully misread this post? Clearly what I posted was neither anti nor pro GW. Instead it was demonstrating why the rich elite are forming a secret cult to steal the planet, aka Cult of Gaia, is nothing less then tin hat wearing conspiracy thought.

Quote:

why don't you put a link instead of plagiarize the article and mislead everyone that you have done the work yourself? That is plainly disgusting and disingenuous

I'd have to disagree with your assertion. I posted 'here is one list' clearly no claim it was mine and fully implied it came from another source. The how it relates to Gaia 'yes/no at the end' is clear in it's implications that I was the source of that.

You claim it's on wikipedia. Cool! Never bothered to look there so wrong assertion that I copied it from there. Internet is a big place. Wikipedia often cites it's sources too. Perhaps we used the same source. From me a big shrug as it's not worth finding out. Why? In the end where the source was adds no credence to the worldwide domination by the Cult Gaia is real. The arguements are a good check to what is a conspiracy and the Cult of Gaia IS a Conspiracy.

Quote:

Rule 1: when faced with a difficult issue, do not respond by posting an article that mislead the facts.

I promise to never post endless charts claiming proof and providing no links sources. Oh wait that wasn't me.

@BrianK

Quote:

Did you purposefully misread this post? Clearly what I posted was neither anti nor pro GW. Instead it was demonstrating why the rich elite are forming a secret cult to steal the planet, aka Cult of Gaia, is nothing less then tin hat wearing conspiracy thought.

All that is demonstrating is nothing else than thin air. You have not disprove one single fact, date, location, people, organization I wrote about. Your tentative to disprove my point falls as short as your manner to do it.

Quote:

I'd have to disagree with your assertion. I posted 'here is one list' clearly no claim it was mine and fully implied it came from another source. The how it relates to Gaia 'yes/no at the end' is clear in it's implications that I was the source of that.

'here is one list' just means 'here is one list', nothing else. The only accepted manner to use someone else text is to quote it.Your blatant copy of this list, your tentative to mask it and make it yours by adding some texts (without any meaningful connection to my posts) and by conveniently 'forgetting' to give the source and your try to disqualify my posts by mean of this plagiarism just make your whole manoeuvre an empty shell that certainly do illustrate the personality behind it.

Quote:

You claim it's on wikipedia.

I am the one who gives the link, so it is more than a claim.

Quote:

I promise to never post endless charts claiming proof

You are right here: I'm still waiting for a proper argumentum or better some scientific data from you since the beginning of the first thread.

Quote:

providing no links sources.

You obviously have some effort to do in this matter given your track record both in this thread and in your penultimate post.

Bye,
TMTisFree

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@Interesting

Quote:

and how do you feal about this?

Well, the economic system with pensions and everything builds on younger working people providing taxes for both the health care and eventual lack of money in the pension systems.

So, a changing age pyramid with more and more retired people and less people working and providing taxes is a huge problem here in West Europe.
Germany for example has decided to raise the retiring age from 65 years to 67 in 2029.

I guess the East Europe will catch this too within a decade or two.


Regarding overpopulation in general, well, don't really see that as a huge problem, the humankind has adapted this far, after all when we hit the 2 milliard mark, there was scientists back then saying "We cannot support them all, the society as we know it will perish!"

With hindsight, we are still here, and more people than ever.
It is just a matter of sharing the resources, and more effective farming.

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@TMTisFree

Quote:

All that is demonstrating is nothing else than thin air.

It's demonstrating what sort of rationalization is in place on consipracy theories and how the 'Cult of Gaia' claim so aligns in the framework.

Quote:

I am the one who gives the link, so it is more than a claim.

Plagrizing is the act of taking other's works and using it as their own. I didn't know of the Wikipedia link so any plagarism is not plagarism of the Wikipedia. I still stand by my marking of 'here is one list' as being clear it was not my original source.

Sorry but plagerism or not doesn't mean it's now invalid and you 'have a 'Get out of jail free' card. Cult of Gaia matches nicely many criteria for determining a contrived consipracy.

Quote:

I'm still waiting for a proper argumentum or better some scientific data

Am I understanding your logic here? You admit to posting endless charts without linking to their scientific research or data and your expected response is others will link to scientific research which disproves your unsupported picture? I think you just threw out logic's back and forced it to slip a disc.

Quote:

You obviously have some effort to do in this matter given your track record both in this thread

I can't post anything certainly all my data comes from the mind control lasers of the Cult of Gaia.... Seriously I seem to recall your demand for people to post anything other than IPCC related articles or Real Science related articles. We saw how well anti-gw was the consensus once you threw out the baby with the bathwater.

Seems the Tundra is leaking N2O as well now.

N2O is number three amongst the Greenhouse gases.

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