@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

Were getting professional Photographers etc for Photo's / Video's of the product

OK. This sounds like excuse (we don't want super-pro shot with proper lighting) but I'll give you benefits of the doubt. Not that quick snapshot of LimePC with AW.net /lastposts/ open wouldn't do the trick.

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YouTube.com and search for LimeBook or LimePC, did you see this?

I have seen demos. I've spoken with people that had chance to play with it. I yet have to meet person who owns them just like that. That's why I'm asking.

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@meet.mrnrg

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Sorry it's a wait and wait and wait thing!

Sure. Hasn't the entire Amigaland been a wait and wait and wait thing in the past ten years?

But seriously: no one wants to deprive you of your dreams. Dream on if you feel like! But remember that people in here are highly suspicious of pipe dreams, especially if they concern hardware for AmigaOS.

Also remember that there are people who actually HAVE delivered. Unless you do the same, I'm afraid guys like me will always take you with a pinch of salt.

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@Trixie

I understand... I've been on the waiting team myself.
2 more weeks, 2 more weeks.
But really After 2 years and 2 CES shows, and they still had nothing in JAN, I decided to change a lot of things.

It still took 3 months of waiting just to get the order placed.

I hope not to disappoint, but that part of your hearts and mind has already been zapped into another dimension. Back to the 99.9% chance of failure!

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@DiskDoctor

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Do you mean to sell yourself as many overpriced LimeBook pieces as to make Hyperion & Co consider it a sin not to release AOS4 on such a then-common platform? And thus cause the prompt OS4 release?

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@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

meet.mrnrg wrote: @AP Hehe, Yeh no more need for Aprils Fools Day... "THIS IS A SERIOUS ATTEMPT @ MAKING MORE ORDERS - 4 - REAL" Perhaps a foolish dream, but at least the hardware exists in real life. Thousand saw it in CES 2008 and 2009, so I'm not the only one!

The amschines shown at the 2008 CES were mock ups due to some repoerts. PCs underneth the desk were providing the signal tha appeared on the screes.

Also you haven't answered teh question whether current LimeOS actually uses AXE or not...
Last time I checked AXE wasn't used at all.
And what about the cache choerence issue? You refused to comment on taht thing, too.
All in all I don't trust your efforts. I doubt you know the procuct well enough, neiteh r you have the salesman's skills to sustain.

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@GuruMeditation

The 5121 is a bit different. The AXE unit is kind of an own processor. It has it's own private little memory. Definitely more than Altivec or such.
Nevertheless to call the 5121 Tricore is kind of misleading. Especially since everyone thinks by calling a thing multicore about symetrical multicore. Which absolutely isnt't true for the 5121.
Also it has it's issue because simultaneous maximum usage of all three subunity becomes highly problematic, because the mpc5121e is not hardware coherent, because of the multi-port D-RAM controller it uses.
I.e. every subunit has an own bus to the mem controller and can poll it. The Multiport controller can handle several polls simultaneously. But this is on eth price of losing a hardware controlled cache. Threads must take care about the validity of the chache by themselves.
A major problem for Linux and probably the reason why the AXE unit is not yet used by LimeOS.
The 5121 is absolutely *not* intended for desktop/netbook usage!

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@Zylesea

I know, no such thing of PC's under the desk in 2008! How sure are you of this claim?

In 2009 Jan I saw on 2 separate days several running machines.

I know no such thing of Cache problems but yes I know there was a Cash/Money problem, and of course there would be if you plan on selling items way bellow a sustainable margin. Less than $300 has no chance!
Less than $400 has no chance!
$500 has a chance!

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@Zylesea

AXE - You mean the audio unit? If it still has problems in 2009, I doubt it would be making it into mass production.

This is what the developer testing rounds will confirm.

All i know and have been told is, it plays videos and audio and does word processing.

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@meet.mrnrg

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That sounds like a good plan... For either these two machines or more machines that I hope to order. That's what the bounty should be for, raise $1,000 - then send these babies to each of the Blue and Red teams.

I was under the impression that Hyperion's fee to port (coding labor alone, not including licensing etc.) OS4 to a new platform was quite a bit higher than $1000. Have you talked to them about their process for this, or are you hoping that someone else will buy one of these two auctions and do all that for you? If I were to take up that task on your behalf, why would I buy the laptops from you at $500 instead of direct from cheaper sources?

P.S. I'm very interested in an OS4 laptop, have tried bringing iBook presentation to Hyperion, and later investigating a new PPC laptop design as well. I just don't understand your methodology with this.

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@billt

$1000 would be to raise money;
1 Laptop for Core OS4 Developer
1 Laptop for MorphOS or for AROS depending on who has more interest...
But we should probably raise another $500 more for a grand total of $1500.00 so that each team has a machine. NO Obligations, No Strings attached, just giving them something to use, play or experiment with.

Cheaper sources??? Not sure what you mean! Most likely not the same setup/spec or warranty. Whole sale you could get a little bit cheaper one-day, can't speculate on when commercial models for domestic US consumption approved by the import / export people / The Federal Communications Commission (FCC).

Methodology nobody understood; (Its going to be pot luck, spray and pray)
1-SAM440
2-Peg
and now
3-LimeBook

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@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

meet.mrnrg wrote: @opi Were getting professional Photographers etc for Photo's / Video's of the product, and will appear on the main site. Sorry it's a wait and wait and wait thing! Did you not see the picture on eBay? YouTube.com and search for LimeBook or LimePC, did you see this?

The picture on your ebay auction is a stock photo of the product. The Youtube video is from a trade show. No one disputes that they have shown prototypes at trade shows.

On ebay for hard to find electronics it is common practice to post a picture of the actual item you have to re-assure potential bidders that you actually have the item in stock. Never needs to be a professional photo. Just one that shows you actually have what you say you have.

What else could opi possibly have meant besides photos that show you really have the two units? Please stop playing games and show us something concrete that you have these items.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 06-Apr-2009 at 03:10 PM.

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@meet.mrnrg

You really don't to be seem very well informed about the product you want to promote/sell.


About the cache coherence issue let me cite the inventor himself of the memory controller of the 5121:

Quote:

The mpc5121e is not hardware coherent, because of the multi-port D-RAM controller it uses. The multi-port D-RAM controller was designed in, to increase memory bandwidth. The multi-port controller means that the D-RAM controller itself listens to incoming requests on multiple busses: the display controller, the graphics engine, the PowerPc core at the same time, and always accepts this request that has highest priority and can be serviced at the given time by the D-RAM. As the D-RAM has different banks, 8 of them most of the time, and each of these banks may be in a different state, the requests pending on the different busses are many times for different banks. Some of these requests hit open banks, and can advance, others hit closed banks, and must wait. The multi-port will give priority to these requests it can advance, while opening the banks for the requests it cannot service now. A single port would arbitrate between the requests before entering the D-RAM controller, and then the requests that hit closed banks would require the D-RAM controller to wait, without the possibility to do any useful work in that time. Moving to a hardware cache coherent mechanism means that a multi-port D-RAM controller cannot be used, because all traffic must pass first on the snoop bus, this is the PowerPc coherent bus. Making the 5121e hardware coherent, would make a bottleneck of the PowerPc bus, and on top would mean a normal D-RAM controller needs to be used, not a multi-port any more, leading to considerable loss of bandwidth. (...)

The CES 2008 issue is well discussed by some folks acutally involved inside the entire THTF debacle.

Last edited by Zylesea on 06-Apr-2009 at 02:55 PM.
Last edited by Zylesea on 06-Apr-2009 at 02:54 PM.

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Hmm, maybe I should make a bounty for PPC-Macs and then give them to Core-developers. Of course, it´s very unlikely, that they ever port AOS4 or MOS to it, but at least I will make profit.

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@meet.mrnrg

When I talked to Hyperion about laptop hardware (iBook or a new design), there was a great deal more involved regarding just giving them a computer to play or experiment with. I'm not sure who or how the Peg2 port tame to be, but I've not heard of any change in Hyperion's business plan and methodology.

***Have you talked to Hyperion about this at all and been told how they do things currently for a port to new hardware??***

Do you have a list of all chips that would require drivers to be made, and full documentation for all of these parts for the work to be done? If not, where do the teams go to get it? Is documentation in their required form missing or not available for any part? (realize that open-source Linux driver source code has int eh past NOT been acceptable form of documentation by itself, consider Hyperion's refusal to port to Mac PPC computers without "real" documentation and them brushing off open-source code as insufficient)

Your "methodology" of numbering different systems and placing yours next to a confused smiley face with them isn't very convincing. You of course are not obligated to share intimate details of your privately held business with the public, but the things you have said here have left some of us scratching our heads wondering...

You need to talk to Hyperion. Find out what their fees are, then reconsider your bounty amounts based on that conversation. I really encourage you to do that much yourself, talk to Evert, find out how they do things, what they require from you (and any other hardware supplier) for a port to be made, licensing, support, etc. Email is cheap, so you won't go bankrupt learning how those companies choose to do business.

Who do you expect to buy your Ebay auctions? The Friedens? Hyperion corporate? The MOS team members themselves or Genesi? (Genesi didn't sound very happy with the whole situation in their forums at powerdeveloper.org) Some fanatic user with lots of spare cash to light his cigars with to buy these and give as gifts to developers? What if I buy one, what do you expect me to do with it? I don't understand.

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Cheaper sources??? Not sure what you mean!

A lot of people in this thread seem to feel the thing should cost $250, not $500... I'm going from that, assuming they know more than I do about this.

Last edited by billt on 06-Apr-2009 at 03:02 PM.

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If someone wants to play with Amiga-like OS on a PPC portable, I would recommend simply finding a nice ,older Apple Powerbook or iBook.

The Powermacs and iBooks range from practically free 68xxx models to G4s for a couple hundred dollars.

I am looking at an iBook G3 466MHz with 576 ram ,asking price of $100.Seems it should be enough to run E-UAE ,etc.

I don't get paying $500 for a "maybe machine".

@Zylesea

Speculation...Speculation...Speculation...
I also heard from another unverified source that the "inventor himself" as left the company!
So when did he leave? Why? Where is he now? Do you know him? Do you trust him?

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@AP

You could try! If you gave it to them no-strings attached... They might just use it for fun and productivity at first, and then later who knows!

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@billt

Nice commentary and then same old story:
Quote:

A lot of people in this thread seem to feel the thing should cost $250, not $500... I'm going from that, assuming they know more than I do about this.

That's Speculation! It's not going to happen, unless they are second hand items, or working but surface damaged items. What your talking about is a price point for mass production and mass consumption and mass pre-orders of many thousands of units, with huge shipping and insurance costs.

To add to that, if all units were not sold, and there were even 1% returns due to faults during long term real world use, that would mean == "Bankruptcy"

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@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

Nice commentary and then same old story:

At least attempt to respond to the "nice commentary" part of it too.

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@BigC

How much are these second hand items? What if they break?
OS 3.x yes..
OS 4.x maybe
MorphOS rumors
AROS maybe

I recently had to fork out $160+ for repairs to my G4 MacMini, they are showing there age.
Let me tell you, that was just the bottom part of the case, and just to fix the power button and off which was flaky and then stooped working altogether.

Besides why should we support old Apple stock when they don't even make PPC models anymore.

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