@Lou

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If 'gravity' is based on mass, well, the moon being round, you'd think it's mass is evenly distributed, no? Another problem for the big-bangers it seems...

It's well established and the earth's gravitational differences mapped. So, it's certainly not the problem you contend.

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Interestingly it's magnetic field is warped...who would have thunk it? Almost like it's a co-inky-dink...

Actually what happens is about ever 6 days the moon goes through the Earth's magentic field in such a way that it produces changes in effects on the moon. Magnetosphere lunar effects This includes an increase of voltage on the surface. So, if we measure the gravity effects by satellite both during and not during the event there should be noteable differences. Just trying again to give you some ideas for an experiment so you might be able to have something more useful than belief.

Last edited by BrianK on 28-Dec-2011 at 12:09 AM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: If 'gravity' is based on mass, well, the moon being round, you'd think it's mass is evenly distributed, no? Another problem for the big-bangers it seems... It's well established and the earth's gravitational differences mapped. So, it's certainly not the problem you contend.

The earth's wavers marginally so the Moon's is not the NON-problem you contend.

Quote:

Quote: Interestingly it's magnetic field is warped...who would have thunk it? Almost like it's a co-inky-dink... Actually what happens is about ever 6 days the moon goes through the Earth's magentic field in such a way that it produces changes in effects on the moon. Magnetosphere lunar effects This includes an increase of voltage on the surface. So, if we measure the gravity effects by satellite both during and not during the event there should be noteable differences. Just trying again to give you some ideas for an experiment so you might be able to have something more useful than belief.

Yes, since it doesn't have it's own geodynamo this is the case. That's also why it's tidally locked to the earth. This little "experiment" could be the cheese that will go well with gravity's whine...

Last edited by Lou on 28-Dec-2011 at 04:43 AM.

@Lou

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You are asking me to prove something that the traditionalists are confused by, yes I have given a simple logical EM-based explanation

Actually, you haven't. You so called explanations are neither simple, nor logical. Your "explanations" totally ignore inconvenient facts like the planet Uranus, or mathematics. What you have done is keep repeating the same mindless meaningless mantra, and it is no more accurate than it was back in May this year.

Just to recap:
Quote:

Quote: You have been provided overwhelming evidence that it does. Infinite repetition of the same baseless assertion does not add one iota of weight to that baseless assertion. Quote: You have been provided overwhelming evidence that magnetism plays a crucial influence in our solar system and galaxy. Correction: I have overwhelming evidence that magnetism exists within the solar system and galaxy, and also evidence of its magnitude. Quote: You have provided no extraordinary evidence that gravity (just attraction and no repulsion) is central to how our solar system or galaxy operates. Newtons laws of motion, in conjunction with his laws of gravity, provide a workable "rule of thumb". If greater accuracy is required you may refer to Einsteins general and special relativity. These equations are able to predict planetary and lunar orbits inside the solar system, calculate satellite and probe velocities required for a successful mission, and detect planets orbiting in distant solar systems. So nothing extraordinary there then. By contrast your own hypothesis of an electromagnetically operated universe fails on mathematics, fails on observed and measured magnetic fields, fails on axial tilts of planets, and fails on the contra-rotation of the planet Venus.

I would just point out that in the case of Uranus not only does the planet spin on an axis 97.7 degrees from that of the sun, but its magnetic field is tilted at 59 degrees to the rotational axis. If you really want to prove your idea, then all you have to do is produce one workable equation that can mathematically demonstrate that a magnetic field too weak to align another non captive magnetic field with itself, is strong enough to propel that magnetic field along a given path. Of course this is not the first time you have failed to demonstrate any form of mathematical basis for your inane musings.

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Yes, since it doesn't have it's own geodynamo this is the case. That's also why it's tidally locked to the earth.

Would you care to ignore the existence of Ganymede Jupiters fourth moon, which has a strong geodynamo and is tidally locked by gravity, or would you prefer to ignore Hyperion, a moon of Saturn that has no magnetic field but rotates chaotically as a consequence of gravitational interference by Titan, a close (non magnetic) neighbour. Keep on cherry-picking Lou.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Lou

Quote:

Yes, since it doesn't have it's own geodynamo this is the case. That's also why it's tidally locked to the earth. This little "experiment" could be the cheese that will go well with gravity's whine

IF Gravity is really EM then a flyby in a decreased EM state vs the increased state will map the EM difference. If it doesn't produce a change it's unlikely to be EM. Seemingly straight forward.

Came across a thought you'd appreciate. Terullian, often called the Father of Latin Chritianity, called his faith 'Credibile est, quia ineptum est'. I thought you may appreciate that saying because your faith's components mirror that of his. In case you don't know Latin this translates to -- I believe it because it is absurb. The only difference here is the two of you disagree on which is more absurb and therefore should be more believed.

@Nimrod

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Nimrod wrote: @Lou I would just point out that in the case of Uranus not only does the planet spin on an axis 97.7 degrees from that of the sun, but its magnetic field is tilted at 59 degrees to the rotational axis. If you really want to prove your idea, then all you have to do is produce one workable equation that can mathematically demonstrate that a magnetic field too weak to align another non captive magnetic field with itself, is strong enough to propel that magnetic field along a given path. Of course this is not the first time you have failed to demonstrate any form of mathematical basis for your inane musings.

You simply lack the comprehension that things right now are a snapshot in time.
In time it's rotation will align with the magnetic field. You should really look up inertia..

Quote:

Quote: Yes, since it doesn't have it's own geodynamo this is the case. That's also why it's tidally locked to the earth. Would you care to ignore the existence of Ganymede Jupiters fourth moon, which has a strong geodynamo and is tidally locked by gravity,

By gravity? That's laughable. Read the details. Ganymede sits quite firmly in Jupiter's magnosphere and induce a dipole onto Ganymede that is much stronger than its(Ganymede) own magnosphere.

Quote:

or would you prefer to ignore Hyperion, a moon of Saturn that has no magnetic field but rotates chaotically as a consequence of gravitational interference by Titan, a close (non magnetic) neighbour. Keep on cherry-picking Lou.

Your examples are child's play.
If the gravity that you think exists is real, then in theory, shouldn't such an object still rotate on it's center of mass? The fact that it doesn't is what shows you that it's rotating based on the Poynting vector interaction.

@Lou

One of the things claimed by a link you posted was how AIDS was predicted to be cured. It's wasn't cured, let alone not in the year predicted.

Thought you might be interested in year one of the big science stories of 2011 is the treatment improvements to prevent transmission 96% effectively blocked HIV transmission

Last edited by BrianK on 28-Dec-2011 at 03:33 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

In time it's rotation will align with the magnetic field. You should really look up inertia..

well its had 4.5 billion years plus, and no results so far. The important point is that EM has to align fields before it can cause movement. Aligning the fields is quicker than generating motion. If the suns magnetic field hasn't had time to align the magnetic fields then it definitely hasn't had time to cause movement. You really do need to look up Mathematics.

As you have frequently been told. If you want to replace the current theories, give us a better theory. Demonstrate that your theory can produce better results.
The differences in field strengths between EM and gravity is like claiming that a fog bank is an effective physical barrier capable of blocking a battle tank. The key term is "Orders of Magnitude" and you persistently try to tell us that the lower magnitude force can overcome the greater force, but have only once shown a mathematical equation, and that was for something completely different.

Since we are now back on to EM causes the orbits and rotations of the planets can you answer the questions I asked back in July or are your thoughts slowed by inertia?

July's questions:
1) what size magnetic field is required to lift 1kg of granite and suspend it against a local gravity acceleration of 9.8 m/s/s?
2) Why do the geomagnetic fields of planets with geomagnetic fields not align with the suns magnetic field?
3) Why to planets/moons with no magnetic fields still orbit?
4) How come the distant planet WASP17b is able to orbit against the direction of rotation of its suns magnetic field?
5) What EM equation can describe planetary orbits and motions more accurately than Newton, let alone Einstein?
6) If rotating magnetic fields cause tornadoes, why do electric motors need fans for cooling? And why is my workshop still standing as I use an electric drill.

Or are you going to duck and run again?

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @Lou Quote: In time it's rotation will align with the magnetic field. You should really look up inertia.. well its had 4.5 billion years plus, and no results so far. The important point is that EM has to align fields before it can cause movement. Aligning the fields is quicker than generating motion. If the suns magnetic field hasn't had time to align the magnetic fields then it definitely hasn't had time to cause movement. You really do need to look up Mathematics.

You really are an old dog.
You absolutely don't learn anything you didn't learn 30 years ago.

Why is it so hard to understand that on a planetary scale, inertia will not change instantly?

The fact that that planet's rotation is not aligned with it's magnetic field at this present time is the best evidence of an invader star (aka Niburu) in this solar system within the past several milenia.

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As you have frequently been told.

This has mattered to me when?

Quote:

If you want to replace the current theories, give us a better theory. Demonstrate that your theory can produce better results. The differences in field strengths between EM and gravity is like claiming that a fog bank is an effective physical barrier capable of blocking a battle tank. The key term is "Orders of Magnitude" and you persistently try to tell us that the lower magnitude force can overcome the greater force, but have only once shown a mathematical equation, and that was for something completely different. Since we are now back on to EM causes the orbits and rotations of the planets can you answer the questions I asked back in July or are your thoughts slowed by inertia? July's questions: 1) what size magnetic field is required to lift 1kg of granite and suspend it against a local gravity acceleration of 9.8 m/s/s? 2) Why do the geomagnetic fields of planets with geomagnetic fields not align with the suns magnetic field? 3) Why to planets/moons with no magnetic fields still orbit? 4) How come the distant planet WASP17b is able to orbit against the direction of rotation of its suns magnetic field? 5) What EM equation can describe planetary orbits and motions more accurately than Newton, let alone Einstein? 6) If rotating magnetic fields cause tornadoes, why do electric motors need fans for cooling? And why is my workshop still standing as I use an electric drill. Or are you going to duck and run again?

1) I don't care
2) why should they?
3) because they are induced magnets
4) an invader object
5) they are not accurate and fail with every planet outside this star system
6) if my aunt had a ####, she'd be my uncle

@Nimrod

Quote:

Or are you going to duck and run again?

I think Lou has answered this as much as he possibly can. He's done well to explain that one simply needs faith to take argument ad ignorantium to promote truth as 'Credibile est, quia ineptum est'.

'It's all turtles.' - Hawkings

Let me ask you some questions:

1) in a dark box, what happens to two light spheres
2) in a light box what happened to two dark spheres
3) how does an H bomb work?

@Lou

Quote:

Why is it so hard to understand that on a planetary scale, inertia will not change instantly?

I would hardly call 4,500,000,000 years instant.

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The fact that that planet's rotation is not aligned with it's magnetic field at this present time is the best evidence of an invader star (aka Niburu) in this solar system within the past several milenia

If that is the best "evidence" that you have for the existence of your pet fantasy then you have less than nothing.

Quote:

This has mattered to me when?

Never, because the evidence contradicts your religious ecstasy.

From your pathetic attempts at replies
1) I don't care = Lou ran out of numbers at 10 so took off his shoes. Still not enough numbers.
2) why should they? = Lou can't grasp the basic concepts of scale, or orders of magnitude.
3) because they are induced magnets. = Lou thinks induced magnets do not have detectable magnetic fields.
4) an invader object = Lou will invent anything to avoid the strange sensations of thought.
5) they are not accurate and fail with every planet outside this star system. = Lou will make really wild and unevidenced assertions to avoid having to think.
6) if my aunt had a ####, she'd be my uncle. = Lou has run out of idea so resorts to even more puerile behaviour.

Please note that in 6) I used the term idea in the singular. The thought of more than one idea at a time is an alien concept to Lou

Edit: My youngest son just reminded me that in geological history there have been many magnetic pole reversals on this planet, yet the Earth still rotates in the same direction. Shouldn't it keep changing direction and have the sun rise in the west?

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

If you don't like my answers, it's not my problem. Will you answer my questions?

or BrianK for that matter...

Last edited by Lou on 28-Dec-2011 at 08:04 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Will you answer my questions?

I already did, frequently.
One time you said I took things too seriously and you would never investigate to that level
Another time you said my armpits stink
Then you stormed off in a huff.
Most often you simply changed the subject and pretended that nothing had happened.

All of the time refusing to entertain the idea of new thoughts and insisting that the whole world is conspiring to make you look a fool. Believe me we do not need to, you are doing a perfectly good job on your own without any help from the rest of us.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @Lou Quote: Will you answer my questions? I already did, frequently. One time you said I took things too seriously and you would never investigate to that level Another time you said my armpits stink Then you stormed off in a huff. Most often you simply changed the subject and pretended that nothing had happened. All of the time refusing to entertain the idea of new thoughts and insisting that the whole world is conspiring to make you look a fool. Believe me we do not need to, you are doing a perfectly good job on your own without any help from the rest of us.

From my perspective you are the one failing to entertain thoughts. Every time you get an answer you don't like you come back with irrelevant questions.

For more relevant questions, see my questions a few posts above.

@BrianK

Have you got crystal balls or something?

The reason I am asking is because of your comment on #1128 Quote:

See this really isn't a problem. Neptune being out of alignment proves aliens as true.

After a while gets followed by Lou's post #1148 Quote:

The fact that that planet's rotation is not aligned with it's magnetic field at this present time is the best evidence of an invader star (aka Niburu) in this solar system within the past several milenia.

Proof positive of your mystic abilities to see into the future

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Lou

Quote:

Every time you get an answer you don't like you come back with irrelevant questions.

Firstly let me point out that my liking or disliking an answer has absolutely no importance whatsoever. The universe will not change how it operates simply because I am unhappy about how it works. Mathematics does not care about opinion, and therefore opinion is irrelevant.
Could you explain how a question about the alignment of magnetic fields could possibly be classed as irrelevant in an EM driven system? The only possible way the alignment, or lack of alignment of magnetic fields could be termed irrelevant, would be if the alignment of the aforementioned magnetic fields were itself irrelevant. (i.e. in a non EM system such as the gravitic model favoured by the part of the scientific community who have learned to use something called mathematics.

T o answer your latest questions
1) the question is too imprecise, and besides that, I am outside the box.
2) the question is too imprecise, and besides that, I am outside the box.
3) the simplest explanation I could find is here, but to simplify it for your personal benefit


"You push the button and it goes BANG!"

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @BrianK Have you got crystal balls or something? The reason I am asking is because of your comment on #1128 Quote: See this really isn't a problem. Neptune being out of alignment proves aliens as true. After a while gets followed by Lou's post #1148 Quote: The fact that that planet's rotation is not aligned with it's magnetic field at this present time is the best evidence of an invader star (aka Niburu) in this solar system within the past several milenia. Proof positive of your mystic abilities to see into the future

I'm happy you amuse yourself.
Interestingly you've given no evidence to the contrary (and have none).

Now I realize you are unemployed so you would have had time to do some actual research on things I've mentioned over the past couple of pages...but it seems you want to continue your chain of archaic knowledge and throwing in useless questions when you could have actually learned something.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @Lou Quote: Every time you get an answer you don't like you come back with irrelevant questions. Firstly let me point out that my liking or disliking an answer has absolutely no importance whatsoever. The universe will not change how it operates simply because I am unhappy about how it works. Mathematics does not care about opinion, and therefore opinion is irrelevant. Could you explain how a question about the alignment of magnetic fields could possibly be classed as irrelevant in an EM driven system? The only possible way the alignment, or lack of alignment of magnetic fields could be termed irrelevant, would be if the alignment of the aforementioned magnetic fields were itself irrelevant. (i.e. in a non EM system such as the gravitic model favoured by the part of the scientific community who have learned to use something called mathematics. T o answer your latest questions 1) the question is too imprecise, and besides that, I am outside the box. 2) the question is too imprecise, and besides that, I am outside the box. 3) the simplest explanation I could find is here, but to simplify it for your personal benefit "You push the button and it goes BANG!"

1) the spheres repel each other, now answer why
2) the spheres attract each other, now answer why
2) a reaction triggers an ultraviolet catastrophe which exterts radiation pressure triggering a miniature black hole, why

@Nimrod

Quote:

Have you got crystal balls or something? The reason I am asking is because of your comment on #1128 Quote: See this really isn't a problem. Neptune being out of alignment proves aliens as true. After a while gets followed by Lou's post #1148 Quote: The fact that that planet's rotation is not aligned with it's magnetic field at this present time is the best evidence of an invader star (aka Niburu) in this solar system within the past several milenia. Proof positive of your mystic abilities to see into the future

Carl Sagan wrote the truism in Demon Haunted world - "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. "

No precognition here, damn, just clear understanding on how Lou clearly fails to demand evidence and falsely inserts faith as a validating condition.

@Lou

Quote:

Interestingly you've given no evidence to the contrary (and have none).

Actually there has been a lot of evidence cited during the course of this debate, not all of it having been addressed. For example, in order to demonstrate the failings of the gravity model of the universe you pointed out that the pioneer and cassini probes currently on their way out of the solar system were not where original calculations placed them. The error in question is an acceleration sunwards of 8.74±1.33×10^−10 m/s2 and is less than the effect produced in earlier probes by firing adjusters to align the transmitter antenna for transmission. This is compared to its speed of 12.2 km/s to show just how small an error you call "broken" This error has been studied by scientists, not just written off by inventing wars between hypothetical alien civilizations, for whom there is absolutely no corroborative evidence. The scientists studying the anomaly looked for the possibility of other gravitational influences but rejected them as there were no effects on other objects nearby. They even considered the idea of "new physics" and are looking to get further data from Cassini and New Horizons when they get far enough out.

Please feel free to compare these responses with your own when much larger anomalies are pointed out in your religious beliefs. At no point have you ever looked a the potential for learning supplied by something called mathematics. Mathematics in conjunction with lex parsimoniae has enabled the scientific community to learn enough to spot an error of 400 km in a journey of 385000612km at a range in excess of 2991960000km. How accurately does your "It's all EM" maths describe what is going on, if you have to invent little green men to come along and adjust things all the time. I'm only surprised that they can find the time from this busy schedule to explode cattle, flatten corn, abduct rednecks etc. Of course I keep forgetting, you haven't actually produced any maths, have you.

As for your comment about me being unemployed, it is less than totally accurate. I will admit that I have recently changed my job as a result of the current global financial situation, and am now working fewer hours for a better wage, doing less actual work, for a different employer. Comfortable semi-retirement you might say, but will be spending most of the new free time relaxing, not trying to teach the willingly blind how to see.

Edit 14:04 Add comment about unemployment
Edit 14:14 Correct spelling error

Last edited by Nimrod on 29-Dec-2011 at 02:14 PM.
Last edited by Nimrod on 29-Dec-2011 at 02:04 PM.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.