@NutsAboutAmiga

wrong curves for li-ion.

this one should show the real problem (voltage dependent on load AND capacity):
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/246/liiondischcurve.png

THAT is why measuring the current is a good idea, but if you know roughly what ballpark you're playing in then you can get a pretty good estimate. So, if your current estimate is off by +100/-50 percent, you risk seeing a 1/3 capacity battery as being of 2/3 capacity. Or the other way around. I would advice against using that much current anyway, we're talking a difference between half hour and whole hour design capacity.

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

"Lithium-sulphur-dioxide battery" is a lab battery; I do not think it's on the market yet, so we don't need to worry about it, it has maybe 3 times the volume energy density of the ion battery's, so if they can make the battery safe, it might be what we are going to use in the future

li-ion is what everyone is using right now, so we just need to calculate volts depending on the worst case, in the graph you given that’s going to be 3.2 to 3.5 volts.

We must make shore you have fill the volt + / - requirement of the PicoPSU for as long as possible.
Quote:

if your current estimate is off by +100/-50 percent,

Well here is the thing, as AMPS changes whit resistance, as things are switched on/off (display, hard drives), and stuff is plugged in and out of USB ports, you will need to contently measure amps to get it correct over time, in the case of "Lithium-sulphur-dioxide battery" you will need a really good battery management system, If you were to use an average discharge AMP number then you most calculate in a good safety margin.

But anyway the battery's we are going to use we do not need to think about it, we can simply use the voltage and use the graph as reference to calculate the state of the battery.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Dec-2013 at 11:46 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

A bit of googling and I find the chines are selling the new battery, I guess Wikipedia is not up to date.

http://en.cellithium.com/comcontent_detail/&FrontComContent_list01-1376533749324ContId=1d242767-7ab0-499d-a414-a87f579f48e3&comContentId=1d242767-7ab0-499d-a414-a87f579f48e3&comp_stats=comp-FrontComContent_list01-1376533749324.html?gclid=CPOm_oeHnrsCFcJd3godlU8AfQ

EDIT: Okay I have been reading a few datasheats and they do not seem to be rechargeable

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Dec-2013 at 01:02 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Dec-2013 at 12:23 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

You're simply mixing up lithium-sulfur-dioxide and lithium-sulfur

The latter is rechargable, the former isn't.

But I doubt using untested battery technologies is useful to us.

I agree that knowing the current would help a lot. Do you do any micro controller programming? Making an I2C device for measuring current and making I2C drivers for it would potentially be useful even outside the scope of this discussion.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Quote:

Do you do any micro controller programming?

its more did then do, but anyway it was 14 years ago, Z80, 6802, 6804.

Quote:

Making an I2C device for measuring current and making I2C drivers for it would potentially be useful even outside the scope of this discussion.

Yes but I be surprised if you can't buy it as a premade sensor.

http://www.adafruit.com/products/904

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Dec-2013 at 12:38 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Now THAT's a neat little board. Whoever builds a battery powered Amiga device should definitely use one of those. Unless a pre-existing laptop battery can be used, of course.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@NutsAboutAmiga

You know C and have experience with the limited resources of MCUs. Then you should get yourself a kit and start plugging away on AVR or similar.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Here's open source DIY laptop project Novena. They use Arm based CPU but maybe something useful from that project could be used by somebody planning to make an Amiga laptop like their separate battery controller board.

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"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

Can I ask you guys why this thread is still active and so OT and derailed? Everytime I see the topic its a joke so we really should start a new thread.

@Tomppeli

And still no chassis/shell for Novena?

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@AmigaLaptop

We need low power, small, cheap HW designs for low end. Then it gives better ground to plan laptop/tablet ideas.

(I personally plan to do some calculations with a HW partner about cutomized x86 laptop's cost and the cost of putting a new PPC based board inside existing laptop/tablet case. The partner that I have contact with has delivered numerous HW products for vertical markets with ARM and x86 and with Windows and Android. I strongly believe there is 1% chance in success....
You know, Edison failed 11000 times before he managed to get the lamp working .... so the faster one fails the sooner ....)

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@realize

If the current discussion is OT to a thread about the need for an Amiga Laptop I dread to think what you would feel was on topic (whatever that's called in forum lingo, as OT is already allocated )

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Wake up!! there will never be an amiga laptop. Sure not by the current people in charge!

They are caught in their own traps. First unavoidable problem: There is NO portable design for ppc processors. Period.

Second: They cannot sell any portable system that, even with the lowest possible specs for current standards (just the bare minimum to surf web, use an office package, and play videos) would ashame their current and future desktop systems, as it could perform equally although they sell the other ones for much more.

@KimmoK

I hate vertical markets.

But on a serious note: What's your plan for GPU?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@vision

That was rather bombastic, I would say. Actually, all the available (and any upcoming) motherboards could EASILY be changed to fit in a laptop shell by the designers, there's nothing very "portable" about an Intel i5 that couldn't be done with any P or T series QorIQ. The CPUs used support power saving just as well (and possibly better) than the offerings from Intel. PCIe, ethernet, DDR2/3, SATA, SDHC and other things are already there.

So it was also rather wrong.

The tricky part is the graphics, which ACube already has onboard (which means the leap from desktop to laptop is easier there).

So it's not a question of technology, it's a question of cost/benefit. It's no more difficult for ACube/Aeon to enter the laptop market than it would be for any newcomers to the laptop market.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

"What's your plan for GPU?"

x86 alternative would use intel's built in. (only if there is full access to drivers)
PPC alternative would use T10x0&DIU or somePPC and RadeonMobile. (and the partner might be interested to contact Verisilicon for parts, but I think that their PPC+GPU chip is not available in low enough volumes. etc...)

Anyway... unless I mess up my current paid work project, I'll be back on this...

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@vision

"there will never be an amiga laptop. Sure not by the current people in charge!"

It can be done with or without the people in charge, especially if "the name" is not mandatory.

" First unavoidable problem: There is NO portable design for ppc processors."

There exist PPC+GPU SoC design to use for larger volume, other than that, there are good PPC CPU/SoC chips to use for mobile device with separate mobile GPU.
(not as mobile chips as ARM designs, but more usable in some ways, especially if we keep the desktop also in plans)

Also x86 design is possible. Lucrative enough offer and also AOS4 would be on x86.
(to my understanding MOS will be there anyway with AROS)

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@vision

Quote:

First unavoidable problem: There is NO portable design for ppc processors. Period.

What defines a processor as a "portable design"?

Do we have something at the current Haswell performance/power? Perhaps not. But I bet we can beat my Cure2 Duo laptop, and that was decent. We can certainly beat my mom's el cheapo POS single core Celeron 2GHz laptop from a couple years ago. That thing is terrible all around...

To me, anything that can be fit into a portable chassis, remove heat to keep ti alive, and run on battery power for an acceptable length of time with an acceptable level of performance is just fine for a portable system. The T4240 is even far lower power than the Turion in my first PC laptop, and that was considered portable... And even an embedded style T4240 surely would beat out that same Turion in performance.

Last edited by billt on 17-Jan-2014 at 10:42 PM.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@KimmoK

Quote:

and the partner might be interested to contact Verisilicon for parts

Only 32bit it seems. :/ I'd myself prefer to lock-in to 64bit. With Altivec. But that's just me.

http://www.verisilicon.com/IPPortfolio_2_17_2_PowerPCCores.html

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@thread

might be some kind of interest for the Amiga world?

http://www.osnews.com/story/27506/Building_an_open_source_laptop

http://makezine.com/magazine/building-an-open-source-laptop/

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retired