@matthey

Quote:

By your logic we should ditch the AmigaOS too.

I think so, but maybe for different reasons. At this point AmigaOS has almost zero market share -- there's nothing to lose that hasn't already been lost. It would be better to start top-down on an existing system.

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@matthey
Quote:

Assign LIBS: Sys:Classes ADD

I never grasped the point of this, so I always move content of sys:classes to sys:libs to make them available without the above assign, and then let sys:classes be a softlink to sys:libs to satisfy installers.

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@bison

Why? We're not writing on a Linux or Mac forum we're here so there must be some magic left in the old OS

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@BigD

For me, the "magic" is in the user experience, whether real or emulated, I always have a *ix OS either under or beside the Amiga. The Raspberry Pi zero has been a blessing in that it fits into any Amiga to "fill the gaps".

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Quote:

matthey wrote: Assign LIBS: Sys:Classes ADD

Quote:

kolla wrote: I never grasped the point of this, so I always move content of sys:classes to sys:libs to make them available without the above assign, and then let sys:classes be a softlink to sys:libs to satisfy installers.

It would have been simpler yet organized to have created Sys:Libs/Datatypes, Sys:Libs/Gadgets and Sys:Libs/Images so the assign was unnecessary. The current AmigaOS 3 structure predates ClassAct though. C= was using modular library classes like this before ClassAct (the ClassAct installer prompts to replace the C= V42 "button.gadget" with a compatible but upgraded version). There were a few other 3rd party classes as well. ClassAct was a more complete version of the extendable BOOPSI GUI system that C= had started but failed to complete.

@matthey

Quote:

ClassAct was a more complete version of the extendable BOOPSI GUI system that C= had started but failed to complete.

Exactly. One other plan Commodore outlined but never got done was a BOOPSI wrapper around GadTools which would allow using GadTools elements within Intuition's object-oriented framework.

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@matthey
Quote:

It would have been simpler yet organized to have created Sys:Libs/Datatypes, Sys:Libs/Gadgets and Sys:Libs/Images so the assign was unnecessary.

That's what I'm saying, there's no good reason for the sys:classes IMO.

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Please guys could you take this GADTOOLS discussion to a new thread?

I just want to hear how the Amiga.com/Cloanto thing turns out, and what it gives Cloanto of opportunities in the future.

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@Hondo
Oportunities to give us the best software that make Cloanto :

A new Emulator based in a Free Emulator, and the next year.
A new Emulator based in a free Emulator v 9.5, so in 2021 , Cloanto give us ?
A new emulator based in a Free Emulator v 10.

It's fantastic

@Hondo

Quote:

I just want to hear how the Amiga.com/Cloanto thing turns out, and what it gives Cloanto of opportunities in the future.

That remains murky at best.

What we do know is that Mike and Trevor are closely acquainted and that is a positive.

Hopefully (and finally) there is some form of detente amongst all of the players and things can start moving forward for the first time in a decade.

And forward doesn't just mean resolving legal squabbles and pushing out infrequent maintenance releases.

The Amiga needs a new OS.

They better do something with it other than a fancy front end to a free emulator. Good start would be to mass produce vampire standalone with fully licensed version of OS3X

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@BigD

Quote:

Why? We're not writing on a Linux or Mac forum we're here so there must be some magic left in the old OS

There is, but no-one can see it except for those of use who used it back when it was a viable system. To anyone else it just looks quaint and kind of rickety, which, unfortunately, is an accurate perception.

I just hit 1222 posts, a curious number.

Last edited by bison on 09-Feb-2019 at 10:29 PM.
Last edited by bison on 09-Feb-2019 at 10:28 PM.

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@bison

Quote:

There is, but no-one can see it except for those of use who used it back when it was a viable system. To anyone else it just looks quaint and kind of rickety...

What?! Are you telling me you don't view taking a Snapshot of every window change during using it's 'cute' spatial navigation system as a killer feature?

Having to tell the machine that you'd actually like to see the file/project that you just copied rather than browse a deceptively empty drawer is the future paradigm surely?! And yet despite all this kookiness here are are and it is actually satisfying (if slow and frustrating) getting this ridiculous windowed AmigaOS environment into a semblance of order.

Maybe it's the fact that we can define these little things within the OS giving us a sense of power and control in a seemingly chaotic world? AREXX, Userstartup, WBStartup, Datatypes, Libs etc all give us control other systems lock down! System Integrity Protection anyone

_________________
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@matthey

Quote:

AmigaOS 3.5 introduced the resource.library which is poorly documented. I'm not sure what is going on there. Reaction/ClassAct is very simple and easy to install though. The classes are regular Amiga libraries which go in SYS:Classes. After installation, the only assign necessary is the normal AmigaOS 3.x S:Startup-Sequence assign which is also necessary before using DataTypes.

I think the resource.library is a too generic name. What if they wanted to implement an actual library to manage system resources? Oops.

Also, regarding OS 3.5, 3.5 is greater than 3.1.4. So I would have never expected it to include any BOOPSI based Prefs programs. Since Hyperion didn't have any OS3.5+ source that I know of they would have had to back port 4.x code to OS 3.1. And since 4.x is greater than 3.1...

The problem with assigning is that it doesn't work out of the box in a boot shell. However, if they adopted my idea of auto assign this wouldn't be an issue. My idea is to have an ASSIGNS dir in the program dir and/or under DEVS where files could be stored that contained an assign list. Or a softlink pointing to a dir named after the assign name. Should have done a FR years ago.

Quote:

By scalable I mean relative objects in resizable windows. GadTools is severely lacking here

GadTools is really just an Intuition gadget builder. Sitting at a level just above Intuition providing the programmer with things like buttons, checkmarks, cycle gadgets and so on in an easier way with a standardised look. It does of course use absolute positioning so the programmer must still calculate the positions. It also came with an OS1.3 version to assist programmers writing software for both OS1.3 and OS2. For that it was good. It was a bridge. It was walked over and we crossed it. I also liked the fast clean look it provided. As the minimum GUI supported I think it's good. The early startup menu wouldn't be there without it.

I wrote my own layout engine for it also. I think it is best for a simple GUI. One that only needs to be static with no resizing needed.

Quote:

GadTools does some primitive font sensitive adjusting but without relative objects it is quite poor. The GadTools menu system isn't too bad but should have been replaced with a BOOPSI menu system which I believe AmigaOS 4 did. Unfortunately, Hyperion kept updating the unprofitable market while they left the larger profitable market behind. Hyperion deserves the Darwin Award in business which may be coming soon.

GadTools primary use became building menus and nothing much else. But this is interesting. As I haven't yet read OS 3.1.4 should have MUI yet.

The main problem with BOOPSI, from a programming point of view, the way I see it, is that BOOPSI is a hack. Like Dayatypes. It forces OOP concepts into a procedural programming language style, and it looks like a mess. Before I learnt about OOP I didn't know why it had this weird non sensical API. It's putting C++ ideas into a C API. Some macros would have helped here or using C objects with a set of function pointers embedded as the API. But if Commodore really wanted to introduce C++ concepts they should have provided a C++ API. They had a chance to fix this in OS4 since they introduced OOP with interfaces, providng a basic OOP abstraction layer, but they didn't build on these as a base (except with Expansion) and so in OS4 BOOPSI is still a mess.

Last edited by Hypex on 11-Feb-2019 at 01:37 PM.
Last edited by Hypex on 10-Feb-2019 at 03:10 PM.

@Hypex

I've played with the idea of a rom module that sets up more assigns. I want something more akin to what MorphOS has, with AMISYS: contacting the OS install and SYS: containing user added OS files.

Btw, Zune works. But boo hiss open source!

Last edited by kolla on 10-Feb-2019 at 03:42 PM.

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@g01df1sh

Quote:

They better do something with it other than a fancy front end to a free emulator. Good start would be to mass produce vampire standalone with fully licensed version of OS3X

They don't even have to do that.

If there is some interest, some 3rd party can contact them, get license agreements done, and start production. Maybe even include Cloanto's own setups of various OS versions.

Something that many people seem to miss is, that's something that hasn't been really possible during Amiga inc. times. They've mostly just been "sitting on their IP" not doing anything relevant, maybe to blackmail investors to giving more money. In vain.

So, I can't see how in any way this would be "worse than before" really. Now, if Cloanto doesn't do something, but thinks it's worth doing, I can't see why they wouldn't let someone else do it. And I have hard time believing that licensing costs would be significant part of f.ex. proposed Vampire boards.

@kolla

LOL.

It is a good idea to keep the system seperate from the user. That is how it should be. Certianly it makes it easier for system updates without wiping the whole system and starting again.

@ribdevil

I'm actually hopeful with this development.

The reason? The C64 Mini.

An interested third party (Retro Games) with enough money and know-how to actually produce a consumer-priced computer was able to cut a deal with Cloanto and deliver the goods.

At this point, I don't care "who wins" I just want some kind of Amiga, that I can plug into an HDMI monitor and a USB drive, available for a reasonable price. It's been so long, I don't care if it's a Vampire Standalone or an Amiga-Mini, or an AmigaOne X-500. We need a reasonably priced, widely available product.

It seems Cloanto may be the ones who understand that the best. The fact that they continue to have active meetings with Retro Games is great, IMHO.

@Dave73

Based on your mention of Amiga-Mini and

Quote:

It seems Cloanto may be the ones who understand that the best. The fact that they continue to have active meetings with Retro Games is great, IMHO.

The last public information on this topic was Cloanto's response here on AW:

Source

If there really is public information that indicates meetings have continued with Paul Andrews, please supply a link. Thanks.

Obviously to the layman reading:
this
It reads more like constant never ending legal issues.

#6

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@number6

The IndieGoGo updates blog for The C64 has a February 1 2019 posting of a meeting between Paul Andrews, Mike Battilana and David Pleasance (ex CBM UK.)

Link:
IndieGoGo The C64 updates blog