@Crumb

Quote:

I already have a PegasosG3/600 (and it's slow for some tasks, as the 750FX/800 will be).

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. The 750 CXe is NOTHING like a 750FX. They are a world apart. That is the typical perceptiong that G3 equals G3. This is completely wrong.

Let me ask you, have you *ever* seen a 750FX running?

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@Crumb

Quote:

666? is too expensive for a 750FX. I would pay it for a 7447/1Ghz, but for a 750FX/800? bah!

I'm sorry to say so but you start sounding like a broken record...

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@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @Bodie_CI5 "Hang on a second. Eyetech had said that they would be releasing the MicroA1 after they had secured (IIRC) an order for ten thousand units.... that exceeds the user base on this website alone, by 4-5 times. They can't all be Amigans can they?" What do you call people who buy Amiga branded products? Lunatics? Perhaps. But IMO the phenomenom is a "Amiga market enlargement", anyway.

You've totally mistwisted my wording. What I am saying is, as has been brought up elsewhere in this thread, that new markets may have possibly opened up, China for example (not exactly reknowned as a traditional Amiga market). It is not necessarily a fact that those who purchase x86 systems are M$ supporters, now is it.

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gregthecanuck wrote: @Null Neither the Discovery II nor the Discovery III document any AGP support. They are not aimed at desktops - they are 'communication controllers' - hence the 3 ethernet ports and no AGP - even on the Discovery III

True, but a close competitor product (which i consider superior to mai hardware) is using it and have an agp 4x port, im not sure but i think the discovery supports agp.

Quote:

If MAI could actually ship working product it appears more suitable for a typical desktop environment than the Marvell Discovery series

Actually that is incorrect, articia is an embedded platform chipset controller, im
sure you havent read a PPC debian linux porter comments about it (it wasnt pretty) :)

Articia DMA, afaik, works in a different way from every other desktop chipset, which is what is causing problems on linux (which doesnt like that mode), while on OS4 Hyperion can just use DMA how they want.

I heard MAI will have news on the linux problems soon though, let's see how it works. :)

Quote:

olegil wrote: @Null Duh, the Teron PX is the AmigaOne XE, the AmigaOne SE was the CX.

I stand corrected :)

Quote:

USB2.0 doesn't mean higher speed. It's not the USB revision that is 2.0 it's the USB _specification_ which is 2.0. So 2.0 means "as per USB standard 2.0 specification document", and ALL USB devices which were compliant with the 1.1 specification revision are compliant with 2.0

True, i have looked at the specs quickly, indeed it doesnt mean high 2.0 usb speed, infact many memory stick makers are playing this game too, "256MB 40? USB 2.0 stick!" and its low speed usb which works on 2.0 protocols :) how lame.

@Bodie_CI5

Ok you were talking about traditional Amiga markets etc.


Also before, Amigas has been used in various niche uses that (IMO) are part of the Amiga market any way (military, space, multimedia terminals, music, TV/film production, etc, etc.). But ok, surely those sub niches of Amiga market have disapeared by now.

Some broadband richmedia server/client would be a totally new thing to enlarge the traditional Amiga market.



Other than that, referring to my "lunatic" part of the post.
IMO, we all are somehow lunatics because we use these weird machines, especially so if you ask from any outsider.

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Like this has become a lunatic thread eh?!

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@Crumb

Are you impying that the average pc assembler sells as much as the avarage Amiga dealer? And many of the new pc builders go bancrupt relatively soon after they go in to buissness btw...

@Null

A hacked on AGP 1x, not 4x...

Sheesh!!!!!!!

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A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

@Null

"competitor product (which i consider superior to mai hardware)"

Argh, the P word is lurking around the corner.

It does have faster northbridge to RAM -bus and a few extra ports.
Otherwise it is equall, not superior. (not just IMO, but a fact)

" is using it and have an agp 4x port, im not sure but i think the discovery supports agp."

AGP is a PCI bus derivate.
Peg2 AGP 1x port is build from 66Mhz (32bit) PCI port of the discovery (or from the 64bit 33mhz port). The port use AGP v2 compliant voltages, etc, but the speed is AGP 1x (66mhz).

(perhaps some compareable, thorough 2D+3D GFX benchmarks appear someyear, but I really think it takes a while before we really put any real stress to those new GFX buses)


(if I have incorrect P information, feel free to provide corrections to my personal mail, otherwise this thread ends up locked ... just a prediction)

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @Null Argh, the P word is lurking around the corner.

Heehe :)

Quote:

It does have faster northbridge to RAM -bus and a few extra ports. Otherwise it is equall, not superior. (not just IMO, but a fact)

but... ok let's skip the argument :)

Quote:

Peg2 AGP 1x port is build from 66Mhz (32bit) PCI port of the discovery (or from the 64bit 33mhz port). The port use AGP v2 compliant voltages, etc, but the speed is AGP 1x (66mhz.

That's interesting, it does make sense since the marvel specs dont list AGP.

Quote:

(if I have incorrect P information, feel free to provide corrections to my personal mail, otherwise this thread ends up locked ... just a prediction)

Well i hope thread end locked only when ppl troll, i dont think this is the case.

@Null

Quote:

True, but a close competitor product (which i consider superior to mai hardware) is using it and have an agp 4x port, im not sure but i think the discovery supports agp.

Pft.

If you mean the Pegasos II, they have an AGP x1 port which isn't really an AGP port but a different connector on the PCI port.

The Marvell Discovery series doesn't support AGP. Search their site for "AGP" or "Accelerated Graphics Port" and you will come up with zero hits every time. I would guess that if they supported it there would be some mentioning.

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@Rogue

Yeah well, now i see it in a different way, guess both chipsets have advantages and disadvantages against each other, sure the agp on pci bus sorta suck (manly not because AGP is magic but because at least it's a separate bus for the video card alone).

@Rogue

Quote:

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. The 750 CXe is NOTHING like a 750FX. They are a world apart. That is the typical perceptiong that G3 equals G3. This is completely wrong.

It would be interesting to see some real-world 750CXe vs 750FX benchmarks, because IBM's published performance figures do not back up the idea that there is some kind of huge gulf between the 750CXe and 750FX.

In their product briefings for the two families, IBM publishes SpecInt, SpecFP and Dhrystone figures for the 750FX @ 900MHz and for the 750CXe at various speeds up to 700MHz. If we take the results for the 750CXe/600 and compare them to a 'virtual' 750FX/600 created by scaling down the 900MHz results, we get:

750CXe/600
Dhrystone : 1392
SpecInt95 : 25.6
SpecFP95 : 16.3

750FX/600
Dhrystone : 1392
SpecInt95 : 26.6
SpecFP95 : 14.5

So the FX would seem to be no quicker than the CXe on a clock-for-clock basis.

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@Rogue

"I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. The 750 CXe is NOTHING like a 750FX. They are a world apart. That is the typical perceptiong that G3 equals G3. This is completely wrong."

So you can assure me that I can convert a DVD to DivX as fast as a 7447A using Altivec? Or as fast as a PIV? I seriously doubt it.

"Let me ask you, have you *ever* seen a 750FX running?"

No I haven't, but I've used the 750CX and the 7447, and Altivec is the only thing that can boost the performance enough in brute force tasks so we don't lag badly after an Ahlon XP or PentiumIV.

"I'm sorry to say so but you start sounding like a broken record..."

Just like the people who say that a 750FX is wonderful and that the MicroA1 is cheap...

I've been waiting for the MicroA1 just to find that there's not even a G4 option and that it's overpriced.

@DrBombcrater
Interesting comparative

@Eyetech
I don't want to repeat what others have said, but don't you think that if I can buy a very similar product like Pegasos2/g3 for 350? (OS and VAT included) and a Pegasos2/g4 for 570?(VAT and OS included) and a full eMac for the price of an A1/g4-800Mhz Eyetech may be charging us too much money? Your low end machine is more expensive than the high-end ones of other companies...

What do you think that east-countries people will buy? The price of a MicroA1 is the full salary of 3 months in Poland!

You are shooting yourself in the foot by not giving the user the option of buying G4s!

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@Null

Pegasos2 has AGP build on top of PCI-X - it's not shared with PCI, so transfers on AGP don't affect PCI bus. And IIRC AGP on Articia has shared bus with PCI, but I'm not sure.

@Crumb
Quote:

You are shooting yourself in the foot by not giving the user the option of buying G4s!

Please, let it go already. The boards are designed, manufacturered, prices set, etc. so all you are doing is arguing about what could have been. Let it go.

Repeat after me, "Calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean, ..."

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@KimmoK

> competitor product [...] does have faster northbridge to RAM -bus

Nonsense. We made extensive uncached memory bandwidth tests on a1, peg1, peg2.

Short story :
- peg1 does in the 75 MB/s
- peg2 does in the 350 to 400 MB/s
- a1 does exactly the same as peg2
- cached bw is the same on all machines at the same clock speed of course.

Apart from peg1 being very slow, thats of course no surprise, peg2 uses a 133 MHz memory interface, so does a1 with the same CPU.

Details and bench source & binaries can be found on an old & lengthy thread at http://www.amigaimpact.org/

Regards,
--
Stéphane

@Crumb

Quote:

Crumb wrote: @Uncharted: "As for your whole Altivec argument, that again is totally flawed, as there are still more G3 users out there than G4, but that's not an issue in the Apple market, so why would it be here?" LOL! Most of Mac users left the G3 land years ago.

Do you have any idea how many CRT iMacs and G3 iBooks are still in use? No I didn't think so. If G3 is so dead, why would Apple (not known for thier backward thinking) support G3 machines in Panther and (so I've heard) Tiger?

Quote:

"And you really think a consumer will notice the difference between G3 and G4 speeds? I couldn't tell any difference between a G3 iBook and my G4 eMac which both had a similar clock." That's funny, because most of users notice it.

Define most users. I'm a Mac user, I couldn't see much difference for everyday tasks. I got some processor zealot telling me exactly the same #### when I was looking at getting a G3 iMac originally. It's all total crap. The only people that really care about this are the hardcore apple zealots spewing PPC properganda, and the sad-cases who orgasm over hardware stats. A G4 will struggle with some stuff that a G5 pisses all over, does that mean we should dump the G4 and just go straight for the G5?

Quote:

When Amiga was sold in quantity it was technically capable of doing everything other consumer computers could do more or less equeally well.

It's not available in quantity anymore, apples and oranges mate.

Quote:

If you leave Altivec out you are restricting users to do SLOW stuff. You can't compare the speed of a G3 converting a DVD to DivX with the speed of a let's say 1Ghz G4 or a 2.8Ghz PIV. Or the speed when you apply an effect with photoshop or when you filter an old vinile disc to take the noise out. Or

By slow I gather you mean, normal everyday operations that 99% percent of the computer using population use thier machines for. In all honesty how many normal folk would convert a DVD to DiVX? How many people actully know what DivX actually is for that matter? I bet being able to read Email is severly hampered without vector processing.

Quote:

"I can understand if you're disappointed with a product or desicions made, just point out flaws in the arguement." Sorry for my English... are you saying I'm not explaining accurately why I think that the idea of using a 750FX instead of a 7447A is a bad one?

No I meant that I understand where you are coming from on this, however I disagree with some of your reasoning. Don't appologise for your english, it's good.

Quote:

Users buy a computer to run apps, not to watch how fast the windows move. If you do serious stuff with computers you need speed (at least the same speed than the rest of the world).

If you want to do serious stuff then you need a serious computer, and need to spend serious cash on it (G5 or High-end x86). I think you're looking in the wrong place for the perfomance you need.