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TMTisFree
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 23-May-2009 6:24:50
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Joined: 6-Nov-2003 Posts: 1487
From: Nice, so nice | | |
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| @MassiveAttack
You were so predictable this is not even fun seeing your transparent face.
Bye, TMTisFree
_________________ The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer". The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source". The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts". |
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Yo
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 23-May-2009 14:57:12
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Team Member |
Joined: 8-Oct-2004 Posts: 2043
From: France, on an ADSL line | | |
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STOP bickering!!!
_________________ €€ Official Hyperion Zealot €€
(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.) |
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Interesting
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 23-May-2009 16:24:06
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Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered. | | |
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| @all
Is Co2 a "smog" gas? or does Co2 create "smog"? or would the reduction of Co2 reduce "smog"?
Still waiting for thoughts on this???????
_________________ "The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker |
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Metalheart
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 23-May-2009 16:38:18
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Aug-2003 Posts: 2969
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains.... | | |
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| @Interesting
As far as I know 'smog' is just filth and unburned particles that 'stick' around in especialy dense city areas on warm days with almost no wind to blow them away.
I dont think CO2 has anything to do with it directly.
_________________ Theres a time to live and a time to die When its time to meet the maker Theres a time to live but isnt it strange That as soon as you're born you're dying |
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olegil
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 23-May-2009 16:39:41
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Elite Member |
Joined: 22-Aug-2003 Posts: 5895
From: Work | | |
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| @Interesting
Did you Google it?
Smog isn't really related to CO2, it's related to smoke and SO2. It can be formed from sunlight hitting a mixture of things like NOx, ozone, methane etc.
So you guys can debate the effects of CO2 as much as you want, but please don't let the debate take away focus from what IS certain: Pollution is bad, mkay? Last edited by olegil on 23-May-2009 at 04:40 PM.
_________________ This weeks pet peeve: Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean. |
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TMTisFree
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 23-May-2009 17:06:57
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Super Member |
Joined: 6-Nov-2003 Posts: 1487
From: Nice, so nice | | |
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| @olegil
Quote:
So you guys can debate the effects of CO2 as much as you want, but please don't let the debate take away focus from what IS certain: Pollution is bad, mkay? | Sure. Except it is off topic and by large (see the thread's title?).
Still waiting for empirical evidences demonstrating the causative link between COČ and temperature.
Bye, TMTisFree_________________ The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer". The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source". The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts". |
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TMTisFree
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 23-May-2009 17:21:34
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Joined: 6-Nov-2003 Posts: 1487
From: Nice, so nice | | |
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| @Interesting
My though on 'COČ as smog' is that this ineptitude is likely to have followed this way to born:
The currently falsified AGW hypothesis also used this cycle except that it is now the grandma who is modelling climate in front of the computer.
Bye, TMTisFree
_________________ The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer". The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source". The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts". |
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TMTisFree
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 23-May-2009 17:44:11
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Joined: 6-Nov-2003 Posts: 1487
From: Nice, so nice | | |
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| @Yo
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Why? I am improving my sociolinguistic skill...
Bye, TMTisFree
_________________ The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer". The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source". The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts". |
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Interesting
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 24-May-2009 16:08:30
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Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered. | | |
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| @TMTisFree
I agree with the pic and you TMT. The US president is now looking for a "replacement word" for Global warming as the people are not buying into it.
Now cap and trade is in the congress, a pure mess.
_________________ "The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker |
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Dandy
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 11:11:28
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Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @TMTisFree
Quote:
TMTisFree wrote: @NoelFuller
Quote:
My answer is that warming, unfortunately for us continues.
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What is paradoxically funny is that warming is definitively a good trend is all possible directions for me: better crops,
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I bet you see this as a good trend as long as you do not happen to live in areas where this warming causes thunderstorms more frequently and with increasing intensity.
Hail e.g. can lead to complete crop losses: Hail causes considerable damage to U.S. crops
Increasing frequency of hurricanes and tornados with increasing intensity can develop the potential to destroy complete cities: hurricanes
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TMTisFree wrote:
more rains,
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More rain will lead to accelerated erosion in certain areas: Soil erosion after rain
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TMTisFree wrote:
better weather,
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I somehow fail to see how "more rains" is "better weather"... Quote:
TMTisFree wrote:
more tourists, etc. I failed to find an adverse effects of slight warmer temperatures herein.
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more tourism will cause even more problems
I'm glad to help you to find "adverse effects of slight warmer temperatures herein"... Quote:
TMTisFree wrote:
Still that does not answer the following embarrassing questions about temperature and COČ (AGW hypothesis):
1/ Earth had no acid oceans and no runaway greenhouse when the atmospheric COČ was hundreds of times higher than now, why?
2/ if COČ increases temperature, why were there past ice ages when the atmospheric COČ content was many times greater than at present?
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Unexpected growth in atmospheric CO2
Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago: "Decreasing CO2 was the main cause of a cooling trend that began 50 million years ago, large scale glaciation occurring when CO2 fell to 425±75 ppm, a level that will be exceeded within decades, barring prompt policy changes. If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, paleoclimate evidence and ongoing climate change suggest that CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm. The largest uncertainty in the target arises from possible changes of non-CO2 forcings. An initial 350 ppm CO2 target may be achievable by phasing out coal use except where CO2 is captured and adopting agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon. If the present overshoot of this target CO2 is not brief, there is a possibility of seeding irreversible catastrophic effects."
That should rebut your claim that "past ice ages" occured "when the atmospheric COČ content was many times greater than at present"...
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TMTisFree wrote:
3/ if natural forces drove warmings in Roman and Medieval times, how do we know that the same natural forces did not drive the late 20th-century warming?
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Of course they did!
But in contrary to Roman and Medieval times, mankind has "developed" since then and introduced industrialisation in the meantime. A major consequence of industrialisation is environment pollution, which partially contributes to GW by releasing GHGs to the atmosphere with CO2 being one of them.
Add the industrial contributions on top of the "natural warming driving forces" and you get the picture I'm looking at.
What annoyes me most is that you still sound like no-one else aside from you (and your sources) knows that CO2 is not the only GHG (and by far not the strongest) and that other forces like sun activity, clouds and earth's orbit equally play a important role in climate development.
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TMTisFree wrote:
4/ given that a 1% change in the amount of cloudiness could account for all the changes measured in the past 150 years, why has the role of clouds been ignored?
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That's what I meant - you still come up with things and claim they are being ignored, although it is quite well-known that they have been accounted for long ago...
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TMTisFree wrote:
When such unanswered questions left aside by alarmists will be given convincing responses, things will be clearer and this thread will lose its raison d'être.
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Why do you constantly refuse to accept that I and most of the others here are not part of the group you call alarmists?
Why do you keep accusing us of ignoring things, while we stated long ago that we accounted for those things (like clouds or like CO2 not being the only GHG and by far not the strongest)?
Why? _________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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Dandy
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 12:17:02
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Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @Interesting
Quote:
Interesting wrote: Question @ all
Is Co2 a "smog" gas? or does Co2 create "smog"? or would the reduction of Co2 reduce "smog"?
I consider Co2 a “natural” gas not a smog gas, and part of life on earth. Today the EPA and the Imperial Obama have the news media pushing the thought that reduction of Co2 will reduce “smog”. IMHO, they are pushing a view to the American people not in “fact”?
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I didn't find a single mention of CO2 when gooogling for the composition of smog..._________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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Dandy
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 12:46:17
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Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @Yo
Quote:
Yo wrote: @TMTisFree and BrianK (and thread)
... everyone MUST play fair and leave the slagging off for the x86 threads. (Joke!! ) On the other hand, ffs, grow thicker skin, will you? ...
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Hmmmmmm - according to wikipedia:
A callus (or callosity) is an especially toughened area of skin which has become relatively thick and hard in response to repeated friction, pressure or other irritation.
I understand from that to grow a thicker skin it is required to stress it. Russian Parliament appearently developed a method how to grow a thicker skin by strssing it: method how to grow a thicker skin by strssing it
(joke )_________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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fairlanefastback
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 12:57:38
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005 Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA | | |
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| @TMTisFree
Quote:
TMTisFree wrote: @Yo
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Why? I am improving my sociolinguistic skill...
Bye, TMTisFree
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Please at least try to follow the direct request of a moderator.
And if you want to use sociolinguistics as an explanation, then let me put this in related terms for you. This board, this "speech community", has a TOS that represents our "use (of) language in a unique and mutually accepted way among (ourselves)".
You have two recent warnings on your account from two different mods. My advice is its probably best not to react to Yo as you did here and try to meet her request as she in this case is the one who gets to determine the acceptable use of language here. And *please*, I encourage you, if you feel any moderator is off base in anything they ask you to do its best to PM to avoid any misunderstanding.
So in the meantime please try to avoid what you honestly feel Yo might see as bickering, ok?Last edited by fairlanefastback on 27-May-2009 at 02:34 PM.
_________________ Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0 Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS) EFIKA owner Amiga 1200 |
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Dandy
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 12:58:00
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Elite Member |
Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @TMTisFree
Quote:
TMTisFree wrote: @MassiveAttack
... Nox nocti indicat scientiam.
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The usage (usus) of latinisms should be reduced (reducere) to a minimum (minimum)... _________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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Dandy
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 12:59:26
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Joined: 24-Mar-2003 Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany | | |
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| @MassiveAttack
Quote:
MassiveAttack wrote: @TMTisFree
Oh dear, was it all a little too much for you?
Nil desperandum. I look forward to reading your next conspiracy theory with the greatest anticipation.
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_________________ Ciao
Dandy __________________________________________ If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein) |
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BrianK
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 14:25:32
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Elite Member |
Joined: 30-Sep-2003 Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA | | |
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| @Dandy
Quote:
Quote:
Interesting wrote: Is Co2 a "smog" gas? or does Co2 create "smog"? or would the reduction of Co2 reduce "smog"?
I consider Co2 a “natural” gas not a smog gas, and part of life on earth. Today the EPA and the Imperial Obama have the news media pushing the thought that reduction of Co2 will reduce “smog”. IMHO, they are pushing a view to the American people not in “fact”?
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I didn't find a single mention of CO2 when gooogling for the composition of smog |
I don't recall the Obama Whitehouse claiming CO2 caused smog? Interesting made a claim on #551 and posted an article on #552. Not sure how the article related as the word 'smog' is no where to be found within the article?
There appears 2 articles that are the same in body but different in title. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090519/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_autos and http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090519/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_autos_65 This appears to be a media problem the title on the 2nd one does not properly convey the article as no where in the article does it mention smog.
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MassiveAttack
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 15:22:24
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Joined: 21-May-2009 Posts: 17
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| @TMTisFree
A very impressive reply, your oratory skills astound me and I am immediately converted to your point of view. A tip that might help you come off as neutral and not at all cherry picking your science. That is, cut out all the politics, and adjectives describing those that debate with you in a political frame of reference.
Again, very impressed. Not remotely a "brave sir robin".
I applaud you.
In the meantime, please do put some effort into answering the questions and explaining your point of view. If not for me, do think of it as a noble obligation on your part to enlighten the general reader.
Your Friend.
@Yo
No problem. Please do tell me when I am bickering, I'm not very good at spotting it Last edited by MassiveAttack on 27-May-2009 at 03:23 PM.
_________________ Suffering pains from the belly laugh. |
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fairlanefastback
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 15:32:32
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Team Member |
Joined: 22-Jun-2005 Posts: 4886
From: MA, USA | | |
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| @MassiveAttack
Quote:
@TMTisFree
A very impressive reply, your oratory skills astound me and I am immediately converted to your point of view. A tip that might help you come off as neutral and not at all cherry picking your science. That is, cut out all the politics, and adjectives describing those that debate with you in a political frame of reference.
Again, very impressed. Not remotely a "brave sir robin".
I applaud you.
In the meantime, please do put some effort into answering the questions and explaining your point of view. If not for me, do think of it as a noble obligation on your part to enlighten the general reader. Your Friend. |
From the TOS:
Flame/Attacks: Do not flame! Flaming refers to derogatory, abusive, threatening, sarcastic, rude, or otherwise mean-spirited messages directed at members/users. Be cautious when using sarcasm and humour. Without facial expressions and tone of voice, they do not translate easily over the Internet in posts and may be perceived as flaming.
You've just earned an official warning.
Lets all reset our brains to civil mode please and bear in mind this is nothing to get rude or sarcastic about to anyone, ok??Last edited by fairlanefastback on 27-May-2009 at 03:33 PM.
_________________ Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0 Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS) EFIKA owner Amiga 1200 |
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Interesting
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 16:18:53
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Super Member |
Joined: 29-Mar-2004 Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered. | | |
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| @BrianK
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This appears to be a media problem the title on the 2nd one does not properly convey the article as no where in the article does it mention smog. |
Well the media posted the material under "smog" & I have heard the same on the TV news.
If the media no longer does its homework, well _________________ "The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker |
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TMTisFree
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Re: Global warming Volume 3 Posted on 27-May-2009 18:55:42
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Super Member |
Joined: 6-Nov-2003 Posts: 1487
From: Nice, so nice | | |
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| @fairlanefastback
It was intended to be a little ironical (hence the '...') not a disrespect or lack of compliance to a moderator's request. Anyway you're right, it is better to ignore the trolls. I have a GM script to get ride of the attention trolls on some other boards. As the number is increasing over there, it should probably be not too much work to adapt it to AW.net.
Bye, TMTisFree
_________________ The engineering approach to our non-problems: "build a better washer". The scientific approach to our non-problems: "find a new energy source". The environmentalist approach to our non-problems: "stop washing your shirts". |
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