There appear to be 2 roadmap models...

- MAC model - "big surprise" - rumours and some leaks.

- PC model - "very open" - no way to keep secrets, everyone knows what is coming from open pre-release betas, RC, then RTM.

It appears both the AmigaOS and MorphOS camps are pretty much following the MAC model.

Are those of you complaining really trying to tell us "I'm a PC"? I have some Microsoft buttons for you.

Could you imagine the kind of momentum Amiga will get if they annouce something and the project makes it?

Could you imagine the kind of refueled energy in the battle scarred Amiga community after we hear what we need to hear now that the project that is AmigaOS can go ahead full speed?

There is no shame in not finishing a project if you are honest and open about it.

Why view things in negative ways? Is it just because it is Amiga related?

But in a way I can understand if you are negative developers who overreact on peoples opinions on Amiga and their work you get depressed and scared of the reality, the reality is, without us -the true Amigans who been with Amiga for 20+ years there would have been nobody who would have bought AmigaOS4.x.

I mean, I can not understand it, if all else now is the time to celebrate a new dawn of Amiga, but instead what the future holds is a secret and it is not x86. So WTF is the future if the future is going to be Amiga finally crushing Windows/OsX?

If Hyperion do no share that vision, instead their vision of AmigaOS is a pathetic "hobby-os" aimed for sub 1GHz hardware then say it so RIGHT NOW and I shall crush my 4.0 and 4.1 CD in hundred pieces right now!

@utri007

No, I strongly disagree. Some people have their own agendas and attack Hyperion but the vast majority want to know in which direction are we heading. Of course if X project is announced and fails, it is understandable that there will be many negatives comments, like in many aspects of our real lives where we fail to meet some arrangements and deadlines. Hyperion can not be an exception to that.

But especially for us, the SAM users, we must have a ####ing roadmap! We are running on a beta system for over a year and a half. With trashed usb datas, no usb 2 support, stability issues and other problems. We need to know when e.g. 4.1.1. will be released. I have seen and read about many improvements taken place on sam+OS4.x combo, it is my right as customer to know and be keen with the support and dedication which the mother companies are dedicated on investing on my platform.

Also, I am a future customer as well, I want to know if new h/w will come up or I will be left with my slow sam for the next several years. You know, as customer I have to calculate costs and start saving up or not. Any new investment of 1.000 euros or so, are a lot of money for me which I have to gather up for several months and adjust my needs.

I want to know, when 4.1. STABLE will be released for sam, when 4.1.1. will be released for sam and which exactly features will be added, if new hardware is on the way or not. OS4.x has no real competent, AROS is in primitive stages, on different h/w platform with steady but slow progression, Anubis; we know what will that be, another linux distro with an amiga feeling, however wants to run womething like that wouldn't use the AOS4.x already, MOS is already at a different platform (the apple ppc) and new version of powerbook is planned, so why being so secretive?

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 07-Nov-2009 at 10:15 PM.

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@gregthecanuck

You know just as well as we what we are complaining about. I would be careful if I was you humiliating other people and calling them PC-guys around here.

I thought this was an Amiga community but by your post, maybe I was wrong.

@Cool_amigaN

You hit spot on also what I have discussed with Amiga friends.

Your post compliments my post well and says many things I wanted to say but can not say in a friendly tone.

Off course my view can be seen as a kind of attack and maybe it is, but as I have mentioned many times here, I am passionate about Amiga and that is not something I take easy - I dont play with 20 years invested in my life like this.

As they say, you can go but never leave, it is truly a lifestyle, interest and passion, or obsession (the Amiga).

@cv643d

Quote:

Could you imagine the kind of momentum Amiga will get if they annouce something and the project makes it?

Khm... every time announcements are made you get people complain that "we don't want another announcement, we want the goods". That is why Hyperion are no longer announcing until they are 100% certain that they can deliver it, because they listened to the community, and the community said they don't want announcements of announcements, etc. And you're actually wrong. Announcing something too early makes it lose momentum, because people wait for months and months and are losing their hope that it will ever be completed.

Quote:

Could you imagine the kind of refueled energy in the battle scarred Amiga community after we hear what we need to hear now that the project that is AmigaOS can go ahead full speed?

We already know that the AmigaOS project is going ahead at full speed, we've also heard a lot of information about what is planned for the upcoming updates of AmigaOS, so I don't really see what your problem is, the community was already given a lot to look forward to.

Quote:

Why view things in negative ways? Is it just because it is Amiga related?

Yes, that is exactly the case in the Amiga community, because there have been so many announced but never finished products and plans. The only way to regain the confidence of the community is for a company like Hyperion to just deliver products, instead of announcing big plans without showing proof that you can actually pull it off.

@COBRA

Quote:

Khm... every time announcements are made you get people complain that "we don't want another announcement, we want the goods". That is why Hyperion are no longer announcing until they are 100% certain that they can deliver it, because they listened to the community, and the community said they don't want announcements of announcements, etc. And you're actually wrong. Announcing something too early makes it lose momentum, because people wait for months and months and are losing their hope that it will ever be completed.

You are right, just look at the Timberwolf anouncement, but at the same time, look at the momentum in the community Timberwolf project has brought, that kind of positive energy that comes from such an anouncement and the ability to track development in a way brings a lot to the community. IMHO if I could decide, I would rather want the project to be open as it is now than to get a surprise in December when I am wondering if it really is worth it to maintain a next-gen Amiga system.

Cobra, you forget that the gates are open now. There are no legal problems, go a head and make the most badass AmigaOS there is, and target it on respectfull hardware. It is the time in space Amiga users dreamt of for a long time, why isolate yourself and sit in a corner being afraid you can not do what you can say you would be able to do?

Hyperion is everyones 'face' now, they can afford to screw it up a couple of times (just look at amiga.inc a couple of years ago they where in the same position). They have a track record of delievering products that is very similar to the products we expect of them in the future.

My problem?

Maybe you are fine with your next-gen Amiga hardware. I am not, I want more performance, I want more applications, I want to use this OS for all there is to do. I believe in it. And then I am already running a top of the line Pegasos 2 at 1GHz and want even more power!

Why should I believe in a future of AmigaOS when the one who are showing where the future leads have shown that the future is a 733MHz SAM and maybe in 1, 2 or 8 years we get dual core and Java?

If I am wrong, what is the future then? Can you please show so that I can decide if the wait for the Amiga future we all have dreamt of was worth it in the first place because in all honesty I dont want to waste any more time if the vision at Hyperion HQ is not big, bold, bright and ready to take the world by storm. Because frankly, Amiga deserves it!

Last edited by cv643d on 07-Nov-2009 at 11:18 PM.
Last edited by cv643d on 07-Nov-2009 at 11:16 PM.

@cv643d

Quote:

You are right, just look at the Timberwolf anouncement, but at the same time, look at the momentum in the community Timberwolf project has brought, that kind of positive energy that comes from such an anouncement and the ability to track development in a way brings a lot to the community.

Have you noticed though that the Timberwolf project was announced only after they actually had something working and could show that on a screenshot, with a first usable version only a couple of months away? That is fine, but when you announce some bold big plan which could take a year or two to complete with not even any indication of a partial success, that can cause damage and bad publicity. For example such bold comments from Bill McEwen like "OS5 will be better than MacOSX"...

Quote:

Maybe you are fine with your next-gen Amiga hardware. I am not, I want more performance, I want more applications, I want to use this OS for all there is to do. I believe in it.

I do also want to use OS4 on more powerful hardware of course, and I also want more applications so that I can do more things, but why should that stop me from enjoying the current applications on current hardware? My point is: there is no reason for anyone interested in AmigaOS to "suffer" as you have put it, because we have hardware available and we have OS available which is being developed more actively than ever, with a lot of things to look forward to in OS4.1.1. Things have never looked so good for a long time, so why would you "suffer"?

Quote:

And then I am already running a top of the line Pegasos 2 at 1GHz and want even more power!

Good, have you bought AmigaOS4.1 for your Pegasos2?

@cv643d

My God I love the way you think.

I'm also fed up with the long waiting, but at least this time we know our waiting are not fruitless. This time stuff actually happens, at a reasonable pace. that is something to get excited about, but i fully understand your frustration.

But hell yeaah the Amiga shall return BIGTIME!!!! - hope hyperion has enough imagination for this to happen. If they have trouble envisioning stuff, the could always look back and see what the original amiga could do, and try to use this knowledge in their future planning. (even though it's impossible to compare) - but i'm more thinking in ideas, visions, etc.

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On Planet Boing Trevor is God

@Metalheart

That is what I told Steve Solie at AmiWest this year.Should would be nice to have just 1 code base to share between all 3 :)

@Hondo

Quote:

My God I love the way you think.

What is so special about cv643d's thinking? We all love the Amiga, we all want a brighter future with faster hardware, better apps and a more mature OS. No-one in here would want it the other way round!

What we perhaps see differently is how that future should be outlined. Optimistic and supportive as we may be, we have not completely forgotten about the dozens, maybe hundreds of premature or plainly false announcements, roadmaps and specifications. We still love anouncements but we want facts and deadlines, not pipe dreams.

For some time I was tutored by a top-level manager at an important company. One day a representative of a supplier came, claiming how good their products were and whatnot. The manager interrupted him and said, "Don't TELL me how good you are, SHOW me how good you are." The session was over.

And that's the situation here. People who have learnt a similar lesson are not interested in words but actions and products. I'm perfectly fine with a company keeping the mouth shut if they cannot promise something real within a particular deadline.

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The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@cv643d

Quote:

You know just as well as we what we are complaining about. I would be careful if I was you humiliating other people and calling them PC-guys around here.

What's humiliating about being a PC-guy. I use PCs and Windows (XP) too and I'm not embarrassed about it. If he called you an NPC-guy OTOH now that would have been been humiliating for you.

@cv643d

In the past massive damage was done to the community by bogus announcements relating to both sofware and hardware projects (Phase 5 with its Amirage products, Titan's PowerPC cards, Metabox PowerPC cards, Mick Tinker with his hardware, Escena with the original AmigaOne which interfaced with the A1200, Merlancia, Pegasos III, the list goes on.)

A company called "I Win" even went as far as to call a press conference in a hotel to announce products which never materialized and it probably was a complete hoax.

Anybody been running AmigaOS 5, the Mac OS X beating operating system lately?

Hyperion and its partners will not be making announcements until such time as we are sufficiently confident that we can deliver in a reasonable timeframe.

Note that we announced game ports in the past which we had to cancel or put on hold because of our resources being invested in AmigaOS development which is already a heavy burden all by itself. We regret this but this was inevitable to safe the platform.

But take a look at the bright side:

- Amiga - Hyperion settlement which puts AmigaOS development firmly in the hands of Hyperion

(a quick stroll through the threads of the time will learn that many did not anticipate that outcome at all)

- Firefox port in progress and progressing well (as opposed to the defunct efforts within the framework of the Amizilla bounty which did not produce anything for how many years?)

- A new substantial, free update of AmigaOS 4.1 for all platforms (AmigaOS 4.1.1.) which was shown off on several shows around the world (Amiwest, Pianeta, Alchemie 9).

- Hardware for sale with AmigaOS 4.1 (SAM - we know the complaints but many are happy with this hardware)

All in all, this has been one of the best years for the platform since may years.

And it will become better but you will need to exercise some more patience because we will NOT announce anything until we back up the announcement with tangible product.

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@Hyperionmp

Totally agreed with you!

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@Hyperionmp

good to hear and i agree with you 100%, this is the way to go. we dont need another hoax, we need real products. so this is the way to do it, even if it can take some time inbetween each news to be announced.

keep up the good work hyperion

@Hyperionmp

I do agree with you! Silence is silver but to deliver is gold. MorphOS team hasnt given any official statement about PowerMac (or eMac) releases. Though their developers doesnt seem to be as restrained as the AmigaOS-developers. They leak here and there and MorphOS community seems more involved in the progress..

But yes. 2009 is the greatest amiga-year in a long time..

Edit: Timberwolf? Is it a official Hyperion-project?

Last edited by Alkaron on 08-Nov-2009 at 10:30 AM.
Last edited by Alkaron on 08-Nov-2009 at 10:30 AM.
Last edited by Alkaron on 08-Nov-2009 at 10:27 AM.

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Classic!

@Hyperionmp
Quote:

Hyperion and its partners will not be making announcements until such time as we are sufficiently confident that we can deliver in a reasonable timeframe.

This is what I wanted to hear...thanks!

Quote:

All in all, this has been one of the best years for the platform since may years.

Absolutley!

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X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

Quote:

And it will become better but you will need to exercise some more patience because we will NOT announce anything until we back up the announcement with tangible product.

Then I suggest you stop spreading some "our biggest project ever" stuff... Since this is doing harm too.

Quote:

- MAC model - "big surprise" - rumours and some leaks.

The big difference is that Apple can afford to do that, because they are working on wonderful products, and regularly (at least twice a year) make *announcements* of products *available* and *in the works*... Also their business model is based upon this secret.

Hyperion can't say the same...

As I see it, this is doing nothing but harm.

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@Leo

Someone seems to be holding a grudge against Hyperion...

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@Leo

Quote:

Then I suggest you stop spreading some "our biggest project ever" stuff... Since this is doing harm too.

Why does it do any harm? It might be annoying to some that doesn't know the secrets but personally I just think it's fun with the competition of people guessing what the MAP is all about.

It gathers interest but honestly I can't see any harm, although I agree that it does not fit with Hyperions philosophy of no announcements until products ready.

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