@HammerD

SWAP works (some applications wouldn´t even run without it) - memstat command shows its usage. However, once all "normal" RAM is consumed, it leads in most cases to OS freeze.

@pavlor

OS freeze by a software issue? ;) Try the ram copy test...that just tests OS components.

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AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!

@eliyahuQuote:

even the old ibrowse.

IBrowse is fast but totally unusable these days. Yeah two or three Amiga pages still looks correct but thats all. OS4 version of Netsurf is better option, too bad there is not better Netsurf for 68K.

@SeverinQuote:

WinUAE as far as OS4 is concerned is a toy

Well for some of us WinUAE with PPC support may be the only way how to try OS4. And it is portable.
We just need a little love by OS4 devs and they will see it was worth it when they count sold OS4.1FE classic copies.

@HammerD

Quote:

OS freeze by a software issue? ;)

Well, eg. Odyssey freezes and I can´t do nothing more in the OS (eg. run commands in CLI).

Quote:

that just tests OS components.

OS may be perfect, but is useless without applications.

@ExiE

Quote:

We just need a little love by OS4 devs and they will see it was worth it when they count sold OS4.1FE classic copies.

Exactly!

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @umisef Quote: So I take it that AddMemList() is somehow no longer supported under OS4.1? It is turned off by default - OS4 can use this RAM only as SWAP (AddMemList() is not solution there). Change must be done in OS4 Kernel (trivial - they betatested this option already).

IF it's possible to disable the usage of Z3 RAM as swap, umisef is right. It means that any developer can create a small utility that simply calls AddMemList to add such memory to the list of the (normal) memory. Add it to the Startup-Sequence, and you can have up to 1,8GB.

So, no kernel patch is needed, but only if OS4 don't use Z3 for swap. Then you can play with your favourite programming language to write the small application. ;)

@cdimauro

Tried, failed.

@pavlor: so there's no way to disable the swap, right?

Then a kernel patch is needed. At least to disable the Z3 usage as swap.

@cdimauro

Quote:

Then a kernel patch is needed. At least to disable the Z3 usage as swap.

If that is the problem, it should be fairly trivial to get WinUAE to provide the memory, yet to not provide the autoconfig info which identifies it to the OS. Or to get WinUAE to simply provide some other, "non-Z3" mapped RAM.

But if AddMemList() simply doesn't do anything useful anymore in OS4.1, then manually adding memory won't work, of course.

Could someone who has tried clarify which of the two is the problem?

@cdimauro

Quote:

so there's no way to disable the swap, right?

Of course, there is way, but OS refuses to use that RAM even after adding it to memory list. It is intentionaly disabled in kernel, I was told (by OS4 betatester).

@wawa

Quote:

funny, that for instance aros in its unoptimized state takes about full 7 mb to boot to wanderer (1024x768, default decoration) and aros owb takes another 25mb to load.

It seems like ppc files are always at least around twice in size compared to 68k or x86.

Last edited by Ancalimon on 26-Dec-2014 at 01:01 PM.

@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Then a kernel patch is needed. At least to disable the Z3 usage as swap. If that is the problem, it should be fairly trivial to get WinUAE to provide the memory, yet to not provide the autoconfig info which identifies it to the OS. Or to get WinUAE to simply provide some other, "non-Z3" mapped RAM.

That change is simple to be made, but I don't think that Toni will provide a "Hide ZorroIII RAM from autoconfig" option on WinUAE.
Quote:

But if AddMemList() simply doesn't do anything useful anymore in OS4.1, then manually adding memory won't work, of course.

It also means that 68K applications which do it or manipulate the memory list don't work.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: so there's no way to disable the swap, right? Of course, there is way,

Good.
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but OS refuses to use that RAM even after adding it to memory list. It is intentionaly disabled in kernel, I was told (by OS4 betatester).

Damn. It's getting harder, if there's no way for an application to add memory to the o.s., because a kernel patch / hack is needed.

@Ancalimon

Quote:

Ancalimon wrote: @wawa Quote: funny, that for instance aros in its unoptimized state takes about full 7 mb to boot to wanderer (1024x768, default decoration) and aros owb takes another 25mb to load. It seems like ppc files are always at least around twice in size compared to 68k or x86.

It's normal: RISCs usually have less code density than CISCs. x86 and 68K are well known for their very good code-density. That's one of the advantages of a variable-length opcode structure.

@cdimauro

PPC code is typically taking twice as much space compared to 68k code bit executables are only about 1/3 larger. There is lot more than just op codes in executables. PPC cant be used to explain higher memory consumption.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@pavlor

Quote:

Quote: OS freeze by a software issue? ;) Well, eg. Odyssey freezes and I can´t do nothing more in the OS (eg. run commands in CLI).

Exactly. It always happens after swap has been used. It seems to freeze most often when a swapped out piece of memory is freed. I made a program that demonstates this very clearly, including source and a detailed description, but it seemed ignored by the OS devs. This was 2-3 years ago I think. I've disabled swap since then.

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- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

@Deniil715

i get OWB freezing in (also cannot do anything) MOS3.7 (i use Pegasos 2) sorry offtopic but someone if knows which reason can tell me if its related this program. Btw i wait AmigaOS4.1 final edition which is reason why are there.

@pavlor
If you are trying to squeeze every bit of memory, you could try stripping Odyssey to get another 10 MB of free memory when Odyssey is running. The downside is that you won't get as much information in Grim Reaper if Odyssey crashes.

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X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @cdimauro PPC code is typically taking twice as much space compared to 68k code bit executables are only about 1/3 larger. There is lot more than just op codes in executables. PPC cant be used to explain higher memory consumption.

Can be. However it's not only a question of opcodes. RISCs are unable to load arbitrary constants, like CISCs, so usually they load the from the data section. So the PowerPC code be 1/3 larger than 68K, but without taking into account such data which should be considered part of the code when comparing code sizes.

Anyway I don't think that it justifies doubling the size.

@cdimauro

Quote:

RISCs are unable to load arbitrary constants, like CISCs, so usually they load the from the data section.

I have never seen GCC generating code that load constants from the data section, not on 32-bit targets. If it fits to 16 bits (many constants do) it is encoded to op code and full 32-bits is "only" two op codes.

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Anyway I don't think that it justifies doubling the size.

If you are lazy to not strip executables (most OS4 developers dont) you get large executables.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Quote:

If you are lazy to not strip executables (most OS4 developers dont) you get large executables.

Have you got some examples of this? AFAICR the release builds that you create using Codebench are automatically stripped so unless people are distributing the debug builds it doesn't seem likely to me. One thing I would love to see in Codebench would be the ability to have separate debug and release builds with debug symbols and optimisation respectively. Of course if you're using makefiles directly, it's easy to add a BUILD= type switch

cheers

billy

@Xenic

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you could try stripping Odyssey to get another 10 MB of free memory when Odyssey is running.

Thanks. Seems to work.

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The downside is that you won't get as much information in Grim Reaper if Odyssey crashes.

I don´t think kas1e is interested in crash reports from WinUAE.