@Gunnar

Quote:

Gunnar wrote: @Hammer Quote: According to DP, Commodore Germany has caused scope creep on the A300 project with laptop PC-compatible I/O chips which led to the A500's cancelation. I think the A500 time was simply over. The A500 used the old through hole soldering technique. It made sense to plan to go to the new SMD soldering. The A500 has no IDE. Adding IDE to the A600 gave it a nice advantage over the A500 Adding PCMCIA to the A600 was nice. (what you maybe call PC IO?) This allowed to use a lot inexpensive PC network cards, even WIFI cards. I think the A600 has in many ways very nice features.

A300's goal was to replace the C64.

Adding IDE and PCMCIA should be another A500 revision (e.g. Rev 9) which is effectively A1200 with A600's chips. A600 lacks the Zorro I expansion slot which hurt A500's 3rd party addon market e.g. GVP.

A600 can't be expanded into poor man's A2000 i.e. A500 with 3rd party Zorro II bus board.

With AA3000+ competed in Feb 1991, AGA should be released in Q4 1991/Q1 1992 when instead of the A300/A600 project and time-wasting with "A1000 Jr" 020/ECS project.

Last edited by Hammer on 13-Mar-2024 at 03:56 PM.

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@HAMMER

Quote:

The blames are in DP's book.

The book is nice ... but what is the book really?

Its a collection of statements of different people,
These post were assembled and collected by David who at Commodore times was Marketing /Sales person.

I would take the book as what it is ... a collection of post of some Amiga people...
All these posts are personal opinion.. Some of these posts are motivated by "vendettas" of people ...
Some of the post are even written by NOT the people in charge of the project.


Think of it as Yellow press of Amiga... with stories of Princess Diana and Charles ...
Take it with a pinch of salt.


TO MAKE THIS CLEAR:
Some stories in the book are not written by the people involved ... but by others ...
Someone even an enemy of the person / a former competitors wrote a store about the topic.

You need take this in account ....

Last edited by Gunnar on 13-Mar-2024 at 04:00 PM.

@Gunnar

You're not a Commodore insider. You're from IBM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

You're not a Commodore insider

I am not omniscient; but I am aware of a lot.

@Gunnar

Quote:

Its a collection of statements of different people, These post were assembled and collected by David who at Commodore times was Marketing /sales person.

DP is involved in logistics, marketing/channel management, and 3rd party game developer relations.

DP identified sales rot ping-pong game between Commodore Germany and Commodore Netherlands.

Canceling A500 has a direct relation with Commodore's large-scale revenue drop in 1992.

Last edited by Hammer on 13-Mar-2024 at 04:12 PM.

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@Gunnar

Quote:

Gunnar wrote: I am not omniscient; but I am aware of a lot.

Do you think your Commodore situation awareness is superior to Dave Haynie's and David Pleasance's?

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@Hammer

Quote:

DP is involved in logistics, marketing, and 3rd party game developer relations.

I know David personally.

@Gunnar

DP's book contains DH's repeated story against the time-wasting "A1000 Jr" 020/ECS project.

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@Gunnar

Quote:

Gunnar wrote: @Hammer Quote: DP is involved in logistics, marketing, and 3rd party game developer relations. I know David personally.

Do you know HK to PH factory transfer fackup?

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@Hammer

Quote:

Do you think your Commodore situation awareness is superior to Dave Haynie's and David Pleasance's?

Me feeling is that you Hammer, misread / misunderstand some parts.


Dave Haynie is a great engineer and developer.
If you read Dave then you can feel his passion.
And you can also feel his disappointment - when his idea to make the best Amiga computer - where rejected by some manager..
I can fully understand his disappointment as engineer.

But there are always two side of the coin
and there are two vies on the same story....

In real world project have
- goals
- time line
- budget

The manager job is to keep the project in the timeline and the budget
and his job is to REJECT proposals from engineers which risk going over budget or over timeline...

And sometimes the manager even knows more ...
e.g. knows about financial trouble of the company
but is NOT allowed to tell the engineers.
So he will be forced to deny some ideas of engineering - without being able to explain them the reason.

I'm sure you can understand this.



if you recall the "story" with the game developer.

Lets think about it ..

There were some motivated game developers asking Amiga management for 3D acceleration of Amiga.



Can you imagine how the talk could have been?

Gamedev : "Can you make a new Amiga mainboard with 3D acceleration?"
Manager : "sorry I can't do" - .oO(I can not tell we have no $$. hope we can pay salaries for some more month)

Gamedev : "Why cant you do this? SONY can do this."
Manager : "sorry we can not do this "

Gamedev : "What is wrong with you? Is Commodore not as good as SONY? If you not give us 3D we write games for SONY only!"
Manager : "Fuck off!"


Disclaimer : I was not at the meeting.
But I think you can understand my point.

Sometimes management can not do something. But at the same time can not explain why. Because they are not allowed to.

Last edited by Gunnar on 13-Mar-2024 at 04:26 PM.

@Gunnar

Quote:

Gunnar wrote: @Hammer Quote: Do you think your Commodore situation awareness is superior to Dave Haynie's and David Pleasance's? Me feeling is that you Hammer, misread / misunderstand some parts. Dave Haynie is a great engineer and developer. If you read Dave then you can feel his passion. And you can also feel his disappointment - when his idea to make the best Amiga computer - where rejected by some manager.. I can fully understand his disappointment as engineer. But there are always two coins to a story.... In real world project have - goals - time line - budget The manager job is to keep the project in the timeline and the budget and his job is to REJECT proposals from engineers which risk going over budget or over timeline... And sometimes the manager even knows more ... e.g. knows about financial trouble of the company but is NOT allowed to tell the engineers. So he will be forced to deny some ideas of engineering - without being able to explain them the reason. I'm sure you can understand this.

AMD's Bulldozer chief architect and CEO Hector Ruiz almost led the entire company into bankruptcy.

Zen's chief architect mentioned upper management purging after Bulldozer's debacle.

The leadership team selected the wrong CPU architecture. Sometimes, project managers are ignorant fools.

There is a price for major fukups.

------------
For Commodore:
C65's 256-color (8-bitplane) chipset was completed in Dec 1990.
AGA's 256-color (8-bitplane) chipset was completed in Feb 1991.

We know Commodore's large revenue drop in 1992. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/01/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-10-the-downfall-of-commodore/

A500 was discontinued in early 1992.

HK to PH factory transfer debacle occurred about after A500 was discontinued. DP's Filipina maid -story against factory director.

PH factory struggled with the production output.
A600 was a sales flop.

"A1000 Jr" ECS time wasting is on Commodore's upper management. Imported IBM Jr's leadership sucked and was fired i.e. He promised lower cost A300 and failed to deliver.

The blame is on Commodore's upper management.

Commodore offered a mid-priced 486DX-25 PC instead of a mid-priced 040-based Amiga.

Last edited by Hammer on 13-Mar-2024 at 05:31 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Mar-2024 at 05:28 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 13-Mar-2024 at 05:25 PM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

We know Commodore's large revenue drop in 1992. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/01/a-history-of-the-amiga-part-10-the-downfall-of-commodore/

I think you misunderstand what really happened.
The Commodores Amiga business was going very well.
But Commodore tried to compete with DELL and others in PC(intel) segment.
And in the (intel)PC-segment they lost a lot of money.

Commodore struggled for several years before going bankrupt.

That Commodore had no $$ for several years also hindered the production of the A1200 and CD32..
When the AGA machines came out ... Commodore was already close to the end.

@Hammer

Quote:

The blame is on Commodore's upper management.

I dont know how old you were in the 80th and 90th
maybe you recall the time?


I recall it as very exciting time with companies rising from garages to billions,
with companies opening dozens or hundreds of new shops.
But also with big companies dying like flies.


Every decision you make has a risk.

So only can make no mistakes if you do nothing.


Looking back with 20/20 hindsight ... is easy.
Making the right decision without knowing the future is very difficult.

@Hammer

Quote:

The leadership team selected the wrong CPU architecture.

They did something. So they took a risk.



Quote:

Sometimes, project managers are ignorant fools.

I did many mistake in my life.
As more you try and as more you do - as more risk you take to make mistake.
I would never blame people for doing mistakes.

What motivates you here to write 100 post full of blame other people for doing mistakes?
Do you never make mistakes?

Last edited by Gunnar on 13-Mar-2024 at 06:48 PM.

@Gunnar

Quote:

Do you never make mistakes?

Only every time he posts 3 pages of intel/and related architecture gubbins on a thread about anything else whatsoever. He's obsessed, even his username is an AMD reference...

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@Gunnar

but that was the problem. They wanted to be everything but they were nothing really. There was no real idea behind the company. They would have sold lean hogs if a manager woukld have thought it is a good idea

@Gunnar

if a company makes so many wrong decisions as Commodore it deserves to disappear. As I wrote no idea what to do, no idea of the future

@Gunnar

Quote:

Gunnar wrote: I think you misunderstand what really happened. The Commodores Amiga business was going very well.

According to DP's book, A600 was a sales flop.

Quote:

But Commodore tried to compete with DELL and others in PC(intel) segment. And in the (intel)PC-segment they lost a lot of money.

PC clones that survived have highly integrated I/O chips which led to the PC's north bridge and south bridge layout.

Old-school PC clones who didn't commit to highly integrated I/O chips will drop off.

Tseng Labs' major failing is their failure to integrate major chips from their SVGA chipset, hence they can't beat the likes of S3 Trio's cost structures.

S3's Trio name refers to the three major chip integrations.

Like Commodore, IBM didn't survive the PC clone business, but Lenovo's PC business survived. IBM is large enough with diversified business units.

Quote:

Commodore struggled for several years before going bankrupt.

Who's using Commodore as their personal bank account?

Quote:

That Commodore had no $$ for several years also hindered the production of the A1200 and CD32.. When the AGA machines came out ... Commodore was already close to the end.

Commodore had profitable national divisions.

What's the point of switching to SMD when the Philippine factory's production rates are fuked?

Commodore had a death spiral when two revenue pillars were wreaked by management.

Philippine factory couldn't match the Hong Kong factory's production rate.

When our non-profit org tried to ship crates of printed materials to and from the Philippines and it got stuck in the docks. That country's customs are corrupt. One of my distant relatives works in the Philippines customs and I heard the stories of the corruption. "Grease the wheels" needs to be employed.

When I heard Commodore established a factory in the Philippines, I laughed.

The Philippines may have low-cost labor, but it's not business-friendly for exporters.

This is before President Duterte's administration. My story's time scale stretches from the 1990s to the early 2000s.

Last edited by Hammer on 14-Mar-2024 at 05:16 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Mar-2024 at 04:24 AM.

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@Gunnar

Quote:

They did something. So they took a risk.

Advocates for Bulldozer architecture were purged from the company.

Quote:

I did many mistake in my life. As more you try and as more you do - as more risk you take to make mistake. I would never blame people for doing mistakes.

If a lead architect strongly advocates a certain direction after warnings from knowledge base specialists, the risk is on the advocates.

AMD's Hector Ruiz didn't learn from Motorola. AMD could been another Motorola 2.0 i.e. another dead CPU company.

Learn from Boeing 737 Max's MCAS debacle i.e. management was warned by knowledge base specialists.

Minor mistakes happen, but there are major mistakes that affects a company's ongoing concern.

If you're not the CELL architect, I wouldn't blame you.
Quote:

What motivates you here to write 100 post full of blame other people for doing mistakes?

This topic is a deathbed vigil.

Certain people repeated the same mistakes from "IBM Jr" to "A1000 Jr". In the end, Mehdi Ali fired "IBM Jr" manager, but it was too late.


When a company’s engineers don’t just hold their executive team in contempt, but feel actual, bona-fide loathing for their chieftains, something’s wrong. By the time Commodore went bankrupt, Commodore’s engineers really didn’t like the last executive team, led by CEO Mehdi Ali. It could be said some of them hated him. In Dave Haynie’s Deathbed Vigil video, they burn an effigy of him.

Mehdi Ali was the last CEO to be appointed by Commodore’s board of directors. Some of the blunders he and his highly paid (Ali was said in the video to have been paid something like $2 million a year)

From Commodore to Amiga Inc – Executive Slaughterhouse

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @Gunnar Quote: Do you never make mistakes? Only every time he posts 3 pages of intel/and related architecture gubbins on a thread about anything else whatsoever. He's obsessed, even his username is an AMD reference...

Let me remind you that AMD is still an active participant in the desktop computers.

AMD is almost another dead CPU company with ex-Motorola Hector Ruiz's Bulldozer administration.

For my desktop PCs, I didn't buy AMD CPU products after K8 until the Zen 2 era.

My Ryzen 9 3900X/ASUS ROG Strix X570 replaces my Intel "SkyLake X" Core i7-7820X/ASUS ROG Strix X299-based PC. I keep track of Intel W790 in my purchase list's second source.

My Hammer name also refers to Star Wars Expanded Universe's Super Star Destroyer.

Try again.

Last edited by Hammer on 14-Mar-2024 at 05:07 AM.

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