In honour of Jeff Bell!

Microsoft announced today revenue of $13.37 billion for the quarter ended June 30, 2007, a 13% increase over the same period of the prior year. The earnings met analysts' expectations while sales were slightly better than the target of $13.27 billion, according to Reuters Estimates...

this includes $1.1 billion loss in the quarter ended in June as a result of the extension of the Xbox 360 warranty...

The software giant said today it still aims for its Entertainment and Devices division to turn profitable in fiscal 2008, with a boost expected from the September release of Halo 3. ...

EDIT: Further info...

For Microsoft's fiscal year ending June 30 the division which includes the Xbox posted a $1.9 billion loss -- $1.2 billion of that was from the fourth quarter alone when Microsoft owned up to the Red Ring of Death issues. The division actually climbed 28% over the year and may even be profitable soon according to Microsoft entertainment division lead Robbie Bach,

Last edited by BrianK on 20-Jul-2007 at 02:51 PM.

@BrianK

The console was designed to be cheap to manufacture very quickly from after launch. Unfortunately that possibly resulted in the RRoD. If the 65nm process fixes that issue, then there is no cost increase. If they still have to add heatsinks and what-not then there is some minor added cost.

However, they just got class-action sued again this time in California for scratched discs. If they write-off future legal fees to the "legal department" then they can still claim profitability - I guess.

Also, with sales slowing, they have less units to fix. Software sales have been what's keeping the platform alive. An analyst recently predicted that the 360 may sell about as well as the original Xbox. That would not be good for MS. If that is the case, the 360 could still be a net loss.

How much !Live content do they need to push/sell to remain afloat in this industry. That does seem to be there ultimate goal. They moved towards this with the release of the Elite and the 120GB HDD.

edit for spelling case as cast

Last edited by Lou on 20-Jul-2007 at 07:35 PM.

Based on comments from Chris Liddell Microsoft's Chief Financial Office. 400 million USD of the 1.15 Billion USD write-off was used to cover costs relating to XBox 360s which couldn't be repaired and send out as refurbs.

So that must account for well over a million XBox 360 units before consumer sales actually hit 10 million, all this within a 18 month timespan and a large chunk of units bought less than half a year ago. IMO simply amazing!

@MikeB

Quote:

So that must account for well over a million XBox 360 units before consumer sales actually hit 10 million

That'd be 12-15% well far under the 50%+ number you've tried to push. Luckily Microsoft has deep pockets so the 360 will be around tomorrow.


@Lou
Not sure what was redesigned after launch to cheapen the consoles. But, we all know that even launch consoles had issues so it seems the issues are longer lasting. The one hard thing to tell is what % of new 360s or Elites are issues compared to what % of say launch consoles.

Quote:

If they write-off future legal fees to the "legal department" then they can still claim profitability - I guess

Or they could include the DVD player in the 3 year recall which would likely kill the lawsuit but unfortunately not replace the games. Obviously they need to do something about damaged games.

Quote:

Also, with sales slowing, they have less units to fix.

If one looks at vgcharts the 360 slowed last summer too. Also looking at graphs the rate of sale is at or slightly above the PS3. Since summer is the slow time for everyone I'd put more weight into Jan08 results of this Holiday season then July/Aug. The later are important but they aren't the power sales that the holiday and spring seasons are for consoles. Check vgcharts again onthe 360 and you'll see the large upswing last holiday season. They've a good bunch o' games coming this fall I think everyone is expecting console upswings this holiday of sizes clearly outstripping July sales.

Quote:

Software sales have been what's keeping the platform alive. An analyst recently predicted that the 360 may sell about as well as the original Xbox. That would not be good for MS. If that is the cast, the 360 could still be a net loss.

Actually that could be good forthe 360. Don't forget Microsoft makes money off the games. The 360, it's claimed, has the highest attach rates out of any console. As long as more games sell this gen then last gen Microsoft will consider it a win. Heck they've considered it enough to commit to their 3rd console.

Quote:

How much !Live content do they need to push/sell to remain afloat in this industry. That does seem to be there ultimate goal.

Live is currently the #1 HD content online reseller in the world.

@MikeB

Nooooooooo... MikeB... you of all people shouldn't know NOBODY does anonymous posting to hide their true identity on Moobunny, sorry, NeoGAF. Saying about pot kettle?

Having said that, I'd prefer Jeff not doing that if that's what he did. I dislike also the alleged Hydra project from the Blu-ray backers which does similar things on a more organized level, if those reports are true. Our own Amiga community saw recent example when allegedly Hyperion posted about the Amiga Inc. lawsuit in alias. Seems to be a way of the world and I'd rather live without it.

Last edited by jtsiren on 20-Jul-2007 at 07:38 PM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 20-Jul-2007 at 07:35 PM.

@jtsiren

Well, I've been a Moobunny poster since during its golden years, when there still were many in depth technical messages being posted.

The general IQ drop due to a mass troll flood happened much later. I am not a shy guy feeling in no need of hiding, but when people respond maliciously off topic just because a posting is signed MikeB, nomatter the actual content IMO it's not such a strange idea.

Quote:

Saying about pot kettle?

I don't make millions a year for being a spokesman for a multi-billion mammoth company. The guy should be more professional than that. And BTW what Master Ninja said was pretty harmless (calling him to be a comedian), nowhere near the abuse people receive over at Moobunny.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Jul-2007 at 08:04 PM.

@jtsiren

Quote:

Seems to be a way of the world and I'd rather live without it.

You can never tell who's posting on forums, companies do it all the time, we know because they are occasionally caught. Occasionally you see them catching themselves out, I seen a guy on OSnews give himself away once. This seems to be something similar.

_________________
Whyzzat?

@MikeB

Quote:

The general IQ drop due to a mass troll flood happened much later. I am not a shy guy feeling in no need of hiding, but when people respond maliciously off topic just because a posting is signed MikeB, nomatter the actual content IMO it's not such a strange idea.

Without really wanting to approve anonymous debating in order to hide your identity and position within the debate (which I don't really approve of at all, I do approve and understand the need for anonymity otherwise though), have you ever thought that the Microsoft guy might have been in a similar position to yours - meaning not being taken as he would like if his true identity was known?

If I remember correctly you used several aliases on Moobunny as well, this clouds things even further because it creates the illusion of multiple discussion participants. But true, you are not a spokes-person for a multi-billion dollar company - only the unofficial ex-spokes-person for the third most known brand in Europe... (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

What this Microsoft guy did, not cool at all even though I guess it happens all around all the time.

Last edited by jtsiren on 20-Jul-2007 at 08:42 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

In honour of Jeff Bell!

You're slipping Mike, some of the old pictures were actually funny. This was just pointless.

@jtsiren

The devil is in the details, notice the terminator eye.





I can't imagine Sony execs like Jack Tretton or Phil Harrison sending out messages like this to PS3 users.

Last edited by MikeB on 20-Jul-2007 at 09:10 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

The devil is in the details, notice the terminator eye.

How cute, you must really adore the guy!

@jtsiren

XBox 360 user jumping off the sinking ship

Article on the lawsuit in California:

"Microsoft did not comment, but when asked about the Florida filing last week, spokesman Jack Evans said: "Out of the millions of Xbox consoles in use, Microsoft has not received any widespread reports of Xbox 360s scratching discs."

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=10167

Amazing......

Here in the Netherlands hundreds of users submitted complaints to a consumer protection agency. In reply to the TV program investigating the issue, over on thousand additional complaints followed.

I think that's pretty significant for a small country like the Netherlands!

Just because the web is overcrowded with Red Ring of Death stories doesn't mean this isn't a severe issue to deall with as well...

Regarding disc scratching, I think it's amazing how long this is known to be a problem and still Microsoft denies everything and still ships consoles years later without having properly addressed the issue.

Article from 2005:

"According to reports obtained by Gamasutra, a number of subscribers to the North American GameFly video game rental service have received messages regarding an Xbox 360 hardware fault that potentially scratches game discs, making them unplayable.

The issue has previously been discussed at length on a number of fan websites, with the problem being particularly pronounced if users move the Xbox 360 while it is in use. However, some consumers are reporting that their Xbox 360 hardware will scratch discs without being moved.

The disc scratching problem is evidently widespread enough that GameFly has prepared a 'form letter' to send to all consumers who return Xbox 360 discs with defects on them, commenting:

"We have received reports that certain XBOX 360 consoles have caused damage to GameFly videogames. Unfortunately, we have been notified that you recently returned a damaged XBOX 360 game.

As a precaution, we have removed all XBOX 360 games from your GameQ. Please contact Microsoft at 1-800-4MY-XBOX. Please do not rent XBOX 360 games until you have resolved this issue.

In the future, should GameFly receive XBOX 360 games from you that have been damaged, you will be charged a replacement fee."

Representatives from GameFly had not returned calls inquiring about the extent of the problem by press time. Microsoft itself has previously commented to VNUNet regarding post-launch Xbox 360 technical issues: "We have received a few isolated reports of consoles not working as expected. The call rate is well below what you'd expect for a consumer electronics product of this complexity."

Amazing.... I wonder with what "complex" electronics product they are comparing the XBox 360 with? Can't be DVD players or the PS3.



5 minute search on google, 10 comments out of many thousands:

"My XBOX60 scratches my discs without moving the console. After a few hours of playing a game (random times), the game freezes and will not reboot. In some instances, only certain boards/options won't work - in others, the game is completely unplayable. When the disc is removed, it has a bunch of small scratches along the outter 1/4-1/2 inch of the disc.

4MY-XBOX was kind enough to tell me that it just doesn't do it by itself, and that the new 1-year warranty doesn't cover this problem - which somehow is not under "manufacturing defects".

Everyone keeps talking about scratches as a result of moving the console. My Madden 07 (twice) and Call of Duty 3 (three times) have each been scratched, yet my other games have not. Best Buy has been kind enough to replace my games (no questions asked at the exchange counter). Provided I return my games w/in 3 months, I can keep doing this forever. But what happens if an old game gets scratched?"

"Ok, I play Oblivion every now and then when I have time, and randomly the disc just stops moving you can hear it, the game freezes for a slight moment and then the 360 becomes silent. The game seemed fine so I just play on and when I am done playing, I look at the back to see if the disc is fine. I look and damn 1 big ass scratch and like 4 small scratches..."

"My Xbox 360 has been leaving scratches on my discs. On some of my discs it is leaving small scratches which don't effect gameplay at all. On one of my discs, which happens to be Halo 2, has left a large, deep, circular scratch around my disc. Now my game is unplayable," EthanDM said. "Supposedly Microsoft will not cover my game, but they say they can take my Xbox 360 to run tests and fix what they can. This Xbox 360 has really ticked me off, it also randomly freezes and crashes."

"I was playing Gears of War in the verical position as well. 1/2 way through the training mission the drive starts vibrating like crazy and I get a can not read disc. I ejected it and behold, a nice ring. I called up support and was told they have NEVER received one complaint of this happening unless you move it while its running. So I am screwed. Cost me $12 per min to play for 5 min. Thanks Microsoft! Complain people or nothing can be fixed with this issue!"

"So Im not the only one..Bought Gears of War yesterday, played it for 1hr and by disc drive starts hauling but and then game stops and tells me the disc is unreadable and clean with cloth. So I take the disc out and behold a scratch all the way around on the outer part of the CD. Well I say its a fluke, thought maybe it was there when I bought it. Took it back and got the game replaced with a new one. Played that one 30min and stopped just to check the disc. Same scratch in the same place and never touched the 360."

"I have had Gears of War for about 3 weeks. Up until yesterday it was playin great. I took the 360 and the game to a friends house, they knocked it over a few times, but the game played fine. Then today, after playing the game for 2 hours, I get that same unreadable disk screen, NOT KNOCKING IT OVER in that period of time, and open the drive to find a huge white ring close to the outer rim of the disk. Don't have the original receipt either... go figure."

"I purchased my 360 a month after launch and have had 9 discs rendered unreadable with the circular scratches. At first I thought, perhaps, it was user error, and that somehow I must have moved the 360 while it was running. 8 discs later I now know it's not me. I was told by 360 support that I should stand the unit up-right as apposed to horizontal... still the thing scratches my discs. Most recently my GH2 disc was ruined... totally ticked me off, and on top of that I have one of the guitars that have the whammy bar issue. My luck sucks."

"My 360 has put perfectly circular scratches on four of my disks, rendering each of them unplayable. NEVER has the xbox been moved from the well ventilated position it started in. I've owned many gaming councels since Atari, and I assure you this is not a result of user error."

"Microsoft have just replaced my 360. The 3 games I got for it were unplayable after a few weeks with disc scratches. I replaced 2 then they both became unplayable after another few weeks with the same scratches (not full circular ones but little rounded ones like in that video). Hope I have more luck with the new one! (and I never once moved the box either, always been horizontal)"

"man. this is effing ####. mine stays horizontal and I NEVER move it, but the 360 scratches my games. I just got off the phone with MS, and the guy literally kept repeating "Honestly dude, this would only happen if you move the console itself, or if there are vibrations around it such as sound from nearby speakers." He was basically saying it was my fault when it wasn't. #### THIS"

Again, impressive customer care there M$.......

Last edited by MikeB on 23-Jul-2007 at 02:05 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Regarding disc scratching, I think it's amazing how long this is known to be a problem and still Microsoft denies everything and still ships consoles years later without having properly addressed the issue.

Reading on this problem appears to be limited to 1 of the 4 different DVD manufactures. Even then it seems some with that drive type are impacted or not. Unlike the 3 red ring problem it appears that this problem doesn't come later but comes out of the box this way and scratches all discs slowly. Definitely something that needs to be addressed and those discs replaced.

@BrianK

Quote:

Most everything at E3 for the 360 had already been announced. So yeah nothing new but I think most anyone paying attention would realize Microsoft wouldn't really have anything new to show. They definitely should have kept a project or 2 under wraps.

It appears they thought they had......

From an interview with Shane Kim, Corporate Vice President, Microsoft Game Studios:

Quote:

Kim: Yeah, but here’s the thing: I think one of the most important, subtle announcements at the Xbox 360 briefing is that Resident Evil is coming to Xbox 360. Yes, it’s from Capcom, who’s been a great supporter of us. GI: But we knew that two years ago. Kim: What? GI: Resident Evil. It was shown at TGS two years ago. Kim: No, but coming to Xbox 360. GI: Yeah. It was at the press event. Kim: I don’t think so. GI: I’m positive. I was there. Kim: Really? GI: It was shown at both press conferences. Kim: That RE5 was coming to…? GI: Yep. Kim: I’m going to have to confirm that. That was supposed to be the big announcement

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200707/N07.0720.1230.26535.htm?Page=4

@MikeB

Good humor. But IMO, the important part
Quote:

...every major Japanese publisher is supporting the Xbox 360. That was not the case in Xbox v1. I think every Japanese publisher, they’re business guys, too. They’re like, “Look, we need to support Xbox 360,” because outside of Japan, we’re the leader in the next generation. And Wii’s not a great platform for them to do Final Fantasy epic-level types of titles, and PS3 doesn’t have a big install base and lacks momentum of their own. I think you’re going to see more and more Japanese content for Xbox 360....Ultimately, it’s going to be content that sways people....

But I think it's telling this generation that we're seeing exclusives such as Resident Evil and Devil May Cry going multiplatform. As these sell on the 360, and they will, it'll show Japanese Developers that the 360 is a viable option, especially if they want to push their games outside of Japan. If a company wants to make a big budget and big graphics game they need big sales. The Wii can't cut the big graphics. Right now neither the PS3 nor 360 can cut the big budget exclusive, IMO. This all points the way that the 360 will continue to be a popular option.

@BrianK, MikeB

You guys are off-topic.

@BrianK

Quote:

But I think it's telling this generation that we're seeing exclusives such as Resident Evil and Devil May Cry going multiplatform.

Telling what? They are both Capcom games. Resident Evil 4's main target platform was the GameCube and was also ported to the PC just like Devil May Cry.

Quote:

show Japanese Developers that the 360 is a viable option

The Japanese have gone Wii for now. For Epic RPG games it's telling Japanese developing companies enough that in Japan the PS3 already has more than double the XBox 360's marketshare in about a third the timespan. Don't expect exclusive Japanese fireworks to come to the XBox 360 unless Microsoft pays for it. The XBox 360 really performs well in the US and surprisingly the UK, don't expect Japanese companies to release Madden, NHL, NBA-type sports games or a new macho Ateam-like Gears of War-type shooter.