Pixie first posted this news in the 68k code density thread which was maliciously spammed by the usual troll and was mostly off topic anyway.

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44169&forum=17&start=420&viewmode=flat&order=0#883102

The NeoGeo AES+console has been big retro gaming news. Where Amigaworld.net has page after page of malicious spam that is never moderated and is otherwise dead, AtariAge.com has a thread with 15 pages of posts about the NeoGeo AES+ and growing.

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/389647-the-neo-geo-aes-thread/

There are claims of NeoGeo AES+ market success already.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/lars-wingefors-a366314_as-we-reflect-on-how-neo-geo-aes-has-been-activity-7453047159429472257-WBzW/ Quote:

As we reflect on how Neo Geo AES+ has been received over the past week, it’s hard not to pause for a moment. The reception from the global retro community over the past week has been nothing short of overwhelming. Within the first 24 hours, we took more paid preorders than our entire annual forecasted volume of the Neo Geo AES+. Since then, sales have continued strongly through our own channels, online retailers, and specialist stores. Seeing the console currently ranked #1 on Amazon US across the entire Video Games category is both humbling and deeply inspiring. The team are now updated our production forecasts ahead of the launch Nov 12. But what makes me happiest isn’t the numbers themselves, but what they represent. Neo Geo AES+ is a clear example of how passion, cultural heritage, and business can come together. The retro business is very close to my heart, and there is something special about projects where history is not only preserved but allowed to live on and create new value. In this context, the role of the Embracer Games Archive has been crucial. Its work is a prerequisite for projects like this to even be possible, and I want to particularly highlight the importance of that contribution. A big and heartfelt thank you to 株�会社SNK（SNK CORPORATION） (below picture is when the former SNK CEO Kenji Matsubara-san visiting the archive in Karlstad last year) for trusting us to take this journey in bringing back the Neo Geo AES. When stewarding an iconic brand, genuine trust and a shared long-term vision is vital and that is exactly what this project has been built on. Special thanks to Ben Jones, Martin Lindell, CRAIG MCNICOL and everyone else who made this happen. The continued journey of Neo Geo AES+ particularly the ongoing conversations around which additional titles may follow the first ten releases is something I follow with great anticipation. This truly feels like the beginning of something new. It was long-time ago I got such excited for a new product. Ordered my Ultimate set last friday. Anyone else that has pre-ordered?

Other NeoGeo AES+ related resources follow.

https://presse.plaion.com/en/NEOGEO-AES

Within 24-hours Neo Geo AES+ Preorders surpassed entire yearly estimate
https://www.reddit.com/r/neogeo/comments/1su5xag/within_24hours_neo_geo_aes_preorders_surpassed/

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1sr4zlp/plaion_replay_neogeo_aes_a_hardwareasic_based/

https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=122681
https://www.arcade-projects.com/threads/new-neo-geo-aes-will-be-released.37134/

https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/retro-gaming/snk-revives-the-mighty-neo-geo-in-modern-form-new-aes-system-plays-classic-games-without-emulation

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2026/04/the-neo-geoplus-will-be-better-than-emulation-says-modding-legend-furrtek

https://www.gamesradar.com/hardware/retro/fpga-dev-claims-the-neo-geo-aes-is-basically-the-mister-core-broken-up-into-separate-chips/

https://www.notebookcheck.net/FPGA-developer-claims-Plaion-s-NeoGeo-AES-is-effectively-a-bait-and-switch.1279381.0.html

https://affectionatediscourse.substack.com/p/the-neo-geo-aes-the-definitive-review

The major tech advancement for retro gaming hardware is the upgrade to using ASICs. Most Mini retro gaming hardware so far, including from Plaion, has used emulation on ARM SoCs which provides the lowest quality in hardware accuracy.

1. ASIC hardware (original hardware mostly used ASICs and now so does the NeoGeo AES+)
2. FPGA simulation (accurate simulation for low performance hardware but expensive vs emulation)
3. emulation usually with ARM SoC

It is interesting that ASICs are used for the low volume NeoGeo but not higher volume retro gaming systems.

Neo Geo AES (Home): ~410,000
Neo Geo CD: ~570,000
Neo Geo Pocket Color: 125,000-200,000
Neo Geo MVS (Arcade): ~1,000,000
---
NeoGeo: ~2,130,000
Genesis/MegaDrive: ~35,000,000 + Sega Genesis Mini: ~1,500,000
Amiga: ~5,000,000-7,000,000
C64: 12,500,000-17,000,000 + C64DTV: 250,000-600,000

The C64DTV designed by Jeri Ellsworth is one of the few ASIC using retro gaming hardware designs. The major reason to use ASICs for the NeoGeo and C64DTV is cost reduction with mass production. Obviously, volumes of millions of units are not required as the C64DTV was considered a commercial success and the NeoGeo AES+ may not reach volumes in the millions either. ASICs can provide a huge performance boost as well as major cost reduction but the C64, Genesis and NeoGeo lose compatibility quickly with performance upgrades while the Amiga/CD32, X68000, Atari ST, 68k Mac and Sinclair QL already support a 68060 which could be clocked to GHz frequencies using a modern ASIC. The value of an ASIC designed just for cost reduction is incomparable to an ASIC that increase performance by many times (NeoGeo: 68000@12MHz to 68000@20MHz vs Amiga: 68000@7MHz to 68060@1-3GHz). Retro gaming fans appear to like the use of ASICs, even though recreations from MiSTer cores rather than original designs, modern features added like HDMI and overclocking capabilities. The cheap money grab days of retro gaming emulation using ARM SoCs may be over as retro gaming fans demand more faithful hardware, which should have been used for at least high volume consoles like the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive and Nintendo (S)NES Minis.

I will now repost some messages from the other Amigaworld.net thread before continuing it.

Repost of https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44169&forum=17&start=420&viewmode=flat&order=0#883118

pixie Quote:

Still no Zorram for you, but you may get a new Neo Geo made with new asics. NEOGEO AES+ – Plaion Replai EU https://share.google/JvBX0lmm8wcpKqiZW

If this thread was not vandalized with hate speech and anti-free speech censorship by the mentally ill, the Plaion NeoGeo may be of interest to Amiga fans.

https://plaionreplai.us/pages/faq Quote:

PLAION REPLAI is a brand by PLAION dedicated to bringing classic gaming experiences back to life. Through partnerships with Retro Games Ltd. and Atari, we recreate iconic consoles and accessories with modern technology while preserving their original charm and design.

RGL tried to get Jeri Ellsworth to produce an Amiga ASIC which she had almost completed through reverse engineering after completing a successful C64 ASIC. The primary goal of these ASICs was cost reduction for increased competitiveness which is likely similar for NeoGeo ASIC(s).

https://plaionreplai.us/products/neogeo-aes Quote:

Gameplay on the NEOGEO AES+ is not achieved through emulation - instead the console is powered by its legacy ASIC chips, re-engineered by modern standards to accurately replicate the original machine's hardware and software. The system natively plays game software from both new and old game cartridges for the most authentic retro gaming experience. Not emulation, not FPGA approximation, but true console reincarnation etched back into silicon. ... No emulation - Powered by re-engineered ASIC chips

Affordable FPGAs have no problem accurately simulating a 68000@12MHz and Z80@4MHz. With the large for the time NeoGeo chipset, a FPGA more expensive than ~$10 FPGAs which can be used to simulate a 68000 Amiga is necessary. MiSTer simulation of the NeoGeo is "near-perfect" but the FPGA is relatively large, similar size and cost to the V4SA FPGA. There was supposed to be a $99 MiSTer FPGA board on the way and the 128MiB SDRAM would run another $75. Considering what looks like high quality NeoGeo AES+ hardware, cases and power supply, the $249.99 price seems reasonable, especially considering likely licensing costs. The NeoGeo AES hardware looks like it would offer more value than MiSTer except that this base hardware does not include games which require expensive cartridges and MiSTer can simulate other systems. The NeoGeo may need more modern features than HDMI and "Quality-of-life features" but the console is not nearly as upgradeable as the CD32 with AmigaOS which supports a 68060@100MHz and likely could support a 68060@1-3GHz ASIC SoC allowing semi-modern FPS game ports too. Why settle for a cheap ASIC with minimal feature upgrades when a better ASIC still using affordable auto layout and many modern features can provide so much more value? Why not add features which more easily support other retro hardware at the same time to improve value?

The mentally ill censor will likely spam this thread making this post practically unreadable. He considers my ASIC discussions so absurd and unrealistic that he is doing the Amiga community a favor by censoring me but he may just be doing the opposite and sabotaging the people who could help make it happen. I never considered financing an ASIC to be the obstacle. Post Commodore, it was always the roadblocks and saboteurs of the Amiga that were the problem. For such a friendly computer, the remaining Amiga leaders and community are too often unfriendly and lack cooperation. Many remaining are invested in niche of niche Amiga markets that only divide the Amiga market while sabotaging competitor Amiga camps. The result is horrible value non-faithful niche of niche Amiga hardware transitioning to better value EOL emulation while the smaller market NeoGeo with less than half the number of units sold compared to the Amiga gets better value and "Hardware-faithful reimplementation" hardware using ASICs. Time is running out to Make Amiga Great Again.

Repost of https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44169&forum=17&start=440&viewmode=flat&order=0#883130

cdimauro Quote:

I wonder which 68k softcore are they using. Usually those systems require a 100% compatible implementation because games can rely on specific timings. Having a perfect reproduction of a 68000 is mandatory in the "retro market", and this is especially true for our beloved Amiga.

From advertising, I expect there is no "68k softcore" used but rather a 68k core.

https://presse.plaion.com/en/NEOGEO-AES Quote:

Uncompromising gaming machine Gameplay on the NEOGEO AES+ is not achieved through emulation - instead the console is powered by its legacy ASIC chips, re-engineered by modern standards to accurately replicate the original machine's hardware and software. The system natively plays game software from both new and old game cartridges for the most authentic retro gaming experience. Not emulation, not FPGA approximation, but true console reincarnation etched back into silicon.

The "Not emulation, not FPGA approximation, but true console reincarnation etched back into silicon." implies no FPGA simulation in the console, which I interpret as derogatory negative connotations for FPGA simulation. This is propaganda as FPGA simulation can provide as accurate of logic and timing as an ASIC. There is likely no advantage to using ASICs for low clocked CPUs and custom chips in the NeoGeo except to reduce costs for mass production. The ASIC(s) provide a cost advantage over the MiSTer. A 68k Amiga ASIC SoC could provide much more value as even the CD32 has the AmigaOS which already supports a 68060@100MHz with much higher clock speeds possible. The NeoGeo 68000 core does appear to support likely limited "overclocking" though.

https://presse.plaion.com/en/NEOGEO-AES Quote:

Retro gaming of the future While maintaining the original look and feel, the NEOGEO AES+ implements modern-day quality-of-life features such as low-latency HDMI display output (whilst also including the original AV output for CRT enthusiasts), DIP switches for language selection, overclocking and different display modes, and the ability to store permanent High Scores (Memory Card accessory required).

The 68SEC000 CPU is still available from NXP but, as I recall, it used a fully static embedded version of the 68000 core which is incompatible due to "MOVE to SR" becoming privileged. It is too bad NXP did not make the newer 68000 CPUs configurable to select "MOVE to SR" to be privileged or not from supervisor mode. Considering the resurgence of 68k retro hardware, such a 68000 CPU may still be viable today instead of EOL. The NeoGeo AES+ will likely sell hundreds of thousands of units alone. The more popular Sega Genesis/MegaDrive Mini sold over 1.5 million units and could have used a 68000 and small FPGA for chipset if compatible 68000 CPUs were still available in quantity. I doubt the NeoGeo AES+ will reach 1 million units sold due to the high cost of cartridges but I would not be surprised to see half a million unit sales for the NeoGeo and X68000 each. The 68k Amiga market is likely larger than the NeoGeo, X68000, Atari 68k and Mac 68k markets but likely not as large as the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive market. The 68k Amiga, X68000, 68k Atari and 68k Mac markets allow significant upgrades, as they already support the 68060 at much higher clock speeds, which increases the value more. It is likely the NeoGeo AES+ uses a 68000 core in ASIC. Advertisements say "ASIC chips" implying more than one while the best cost reduction would be a single chip 68k ASIC SoC like single chip ARM ASIC SoCs, often used instead with cheap emulation for Mini consoles. The retro competition appears to be heating up. Too bad the Amiga IP squatting road blocks increase uncertainty for the Amiga market and people with foresight who tried to steer Amiga development toward max cost reduction and value mass market 68k ASIC SoCs were not listened to. Amiga developers could have led the way with the use of ASICs but instead we get no Ultimate 68k Amiga. Sadly, there were millions USD spent on niche of niche PPC bastard Amiga markets instead and these Amiga IP squatters still sabotage the much larger 68k Amiga market.

pixie Quote:

for this very same reason, the content i want to put got diluted by his posts, so i wanted to clear the page. Neo Geo is about to launch a neo console based on a new asic, which goes showing somewhat that a new 68k asic could also be possible.

The NeoGeo AES+ is being launched with the collaboration of SNK, the old NeoGeo developer.

https://presse.plaion.com/SNK-and-PLAION-Announce-the-Return-of-the-King-The-NEOGEO-AES-Comes-Ho Quote:

With pre-orders opening today, and the launch date set as 12th November 2026, the NEOGEO AES+ has been produced in collaboration with SNK, the producers of the original hardware.

I expect SNK licensed NeoGeo related IP to Plaion and not much more. It is likely not much different than Amiga Corporation licensing Commodore/Amiga IP to RGL, a partner of Plaion. Amiga IP uncertainty due to hostile Amiga IP squatters and lawsuits means we get cheap emulation using ARM ASIC SoCs instead of 68k Amiga ASICs, not even FPGAs for the Amiga market from pros. The amount of investment often directly correlates to the amount of uncertainty. Amiga is like a 3rd world country with many shenanigans that normal investors and developers avoid.

By the way, you should have started a new thread about the Plaion NeoGeo with ASICs. The few PPC AmigaNOne fanboys do not read this thread and their sabotage of the 68k Amiga turned off the retro 68k Amiga masses killing Amigaworld.net. That leaves only a few 68k Amiga stragglers and many are not interested in development but are more likely to be interested in retro gaming. The healthy AtariAge site has 5 pages of info and comments about the Plaion NeoGeo in contrast.

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/389647-the-neo-geo-aes-thread/

Only Atari makes it possible.

Reply to https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44169&forum=17&start=440&viewmode=flat&order=0#883186

cdimauro Quote:

The page should be cleared by moderators: please, write them, signal the page and the troll.

There are no moderators here and it is a troll free for all. The site is abandoned despite Trevor's commitment to maintain it for all Amiga fans when he took it over. The failed Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate need to get out of the way of the Amiga before there is nothing left. The 68k Sinclair QL with 150,000 units sold looks like a success compared to the PPC AmigaNOne and the ARM A600GS maybe outsells the C64GS with 2000 units sold because it has better retro 68k Amiga compatibility than the AmigaNOne and much better value with a relatively low price. Still missing the faithful hardware mark by a mile for the 68k Amiga where most fans thought of the hardware and easy system programming made possible by the 68k before the AmigaOS.

cdimauro Quote:

Makes sense. Especially if 68000 is cheap.

Plaion said there is no FPGA or emulation. They likely started with a soft core which was turned into a hard core. From articles above, they likely started with the MiSTer soft core for the NeoGeo and turned it into a hard core, perhaps with a FPGA to ASIC conversion. I still do not know why there would be multiple ASICs unless they were using an old stock of custom ASIC chips. The 68000 core is likely the cycle exact FX68K used by the MiSTer NeoGeo core.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NeoGeo_MiSTer/tree/master/rtl/cpu

A Z80 core is also located there. I expect new ASIC(s) contain both CPUs. The Amiga MiSTer core has the option of FX68K or higher performance but less compatible TG68K which includes 68020 compatibility.

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Minimig-AGA_MiSTer/tree/MiSTer/rtl

I believe the MiniMig/Amiga MiSTer core contains and supports FX68K CPU, TG68K CPU, OCS/ECS/AGA, RTG, USB, etc. Despite all this support, it only uses about 1/3 of the MiSTer FPGA and less than the NeoGeo core.

MiSTer Core Utilization
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wHetlC0RqFnBcqzGEZI8SWi6tlHFxl_ehpaokDwg7CU/edit?gid=0#gid=0

1 ao486
2 SNES
3 TurboGrafx 16 / PC Engine
4 TurboGrafx CD 16 + PC Engine
5 MegaCD
6 Genesis/Megadrive
7 NES
8 GBA
9 Altair 8800
10 ZX Spectrum
11 Commodore 64 / Ultimax
12 NeoGeo
13 TSConf
14 MoonPatrol
15 MultiComp
16 Amiga

The Amiga has simple logic despite all the support. I expect this is partially aided by a unified memory system which most other consoles and computers of the day lacked but which became the standard for consoles later. The 68k Amiga core with 2 CPU cores and OCS/ECS/AGA/RTG chipset support use less of the FPGA than the NES, C64 and ZX Spectrum cores. The C64 has multiple 6502 family CPUs as each disk drive requires a copy of the CPU. The 68k Amiga would blow away the NeoGeo with the addition of a much higher performance CPU. Even expensive gaming hardware like the NeoGeo can not compete with a 68060@100MHz Amiga and a modern ASIC could support GHz frequencies.

cdimauro Quote:

Indeed, but then it's not fully compatible. MOVE SR isn't a rare instruction on old software, so this core can't be used as a full replacement.

Right, and the reason why I expect a FX68K in ASIC.

cdimauro Quote:

But I doubt that the original Neo Geo chips are still available. Likely, they produced ASICs out of the original schematics. And kept the 68000 core from NXP. It makes sense invest on ASICs with good enough numbers (which is expected for this product). ... All relevant Amiga IPs are under Amiga Corporation. However, the main problem is that important schematics are missing, so it's not possible to perfectly reproduce the old chips. AFAIK only Alice schematics are available. Without schematics there's no way to faithfully replicate the operation of the original chips --> problems with the retromarket.

I suspect the original NeoGeo RTL (code) and perhaps schematics were lost or they would be preferable to use. I believe the Amiga schematics are still around but I do not know about the RTL. Starting with the original RTL/schematics would increase appeal, compatibility, faithfulness and legitimacy as a successor.

a whole page of matthey talking to himself.
true taxi driver vibes

_________________
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--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote: Reply to https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=44169&forum=17&start=440&viewmode=flat&order=0#883186 cdimauro Quote: The page should be cleared by moderators: please, write them, signal the page and the troll. There are no moderators here and it is a troll free for all. The site is abandoned despite Trevor's commitment to maintain it for all Amiga fans when he took it over.

I've talked with Matthew at the Amiga 40 in Germany, and he promised to add another moderator and fix the problems with the site. Unfortunately, nothing changed after half a year, and the only way is to contact Steve (which isn't much active).

The site is really abandoned to itself...
Quote:

The failed Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate need to get out of the way of the Amiga before there is nothing left. The 68k Sinclair QL with 150,000 units sold looks like a success compared to the PPC AmigaNOne and the ARM A600GS maybe outsells the C64GS with 2000 units sold because it has better retro 68k Amiga compatibility than the AmigaNOne and much better value with a relatively low price.

I've to say that I've seen a lot of interest around the A600GS when I was at the Amiga 40. Incredibly, there were some in the "corner" reserved for the largest die hard Amiga fans (which usually sport all kind of modded Amigas), and one of them said that it was a nice a comfortable to use.

Maybe something is changing around retrogaming. People like to spend less time tinkering and just want to immediately use what they like.
Quote:

Still missing the faithful hardware mark by a mile for the 68k Amiga where most fans thought of the hardware and easy system programming made possible by the 68k before the AmigaOS.

That's more a niche market, unfortunately. There are still many Amigans which like it (EAB is constant reference), but the majority of people just like to grab the joystick or mouse and play one of our beloved videogames.

I also like the same, but honestly speaking I'd prefer to play to "enhanced/remastered" versions. I mean: same business logic, but with HD graphics and sounds, more buttons support, save states, etc. etc.. I supe-rdoped Amiga running those games will certainly get my attention (however, there should be someone taking the originals and rework them accordingly. But I'm pretty sure that our, still vast, community would take care of it).
Quote:

cdimauro Quote: Makes sense. Especially if 68000 is cheap. Plaion said there is no FPGA or emulation. They likely started with a soft core which was turned into a hard core. From articles above, they likely started with the MiSTer soft core for the NeoGeo and turned it into a hard core, perhaps with a FPGA to ASIC conversion. I still do not know why there would be multiple ASICs unless they were using an old stock of custom ASIC chips. The 68000 core is likely the cycle exact FX68K used by the MiSTer NeoGeo core. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/NeoGeo_MiSTer/tree/master/rtl/cpu A Z80 core is also located there. I expect new ASIC(s) contain both CPUs. The Amiga MiSTer core has the option of FX68K or higher performance but less compatible TG68K which includes 68020 compatibility. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Minimig-AGA_MiSTer/tree/MiSTer/rtl I believe the MiniMig/Amiga MiSTer core contains and supports FX68K CPU, TG68K CPU, OCS/ECS/AGA, RTG, USB, etc. Despite all this support, it only uses about 1/3 of the MiSTer FPGA and less than the NeoGeo core. MiSTer Core Utilization https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wHetlC0RqFnBcqzGEZI8SWi6tlHFxl_ehpaokDwg7CU/edit?gid=0#gid=0 1 ao486 2 SNES 3 TurboGrafx 16 / PC Engine 4 TurboGrafx CD 16 + PC Engine 5 MegaCD 6 Genesis/Megadrive 7 NES 8 GBA 9 Altair 8800 10 ZX Spectrum 11 Commodore 64 / Ultimax 12 NeoGeo 13 TSConf 14 MoonPatrol 15 MultiComp 16 Amiga

I see, thanks. And makes sense.
Quote:

The Amiga has simple logic despite all the support. I expect this is partially aided by a unified memory system which most other consoles and computers of the day lacked but which became the standard for consoles later.

But Amiga hadn't a unified memory system. We had two different types of memory, with fully independent buses.

Not so much useful for the games of the time (I always preferred 1MB+ of Chip Mem), but that's the case.
Quote:

The 68k Amiga core with 2 CPU cores and OCS/ECS/AGA/RTG chipset support use less of the FPGA than the NES, C64 and ZX Spectrum cores. The C64 has multiple 6502 family CPUs as each disk drive requires a copy of the CPU. The 68k Amiga would blow away the NeoGeo with the addition of a much higher performance CPU. Even expensive gaming hardware like the NeoGeo can not compete with a 68060@100MHz Amiga and a modern ASIC could support GHz frequencies.

An Amiga ASIC requires 3 CPUs, IMO: a 68000 (FX68K), a 68020 (TG68), and speed demon 68k core.

The Amiga chipset can be set in the stone and shouldn't take much for OCS/ECS, AGA, and RTG. The rest could be a small FPGA block which allows evolutions of the platform.
Quote:

cdimauro Quote: All relevant Amiga IPs are under Amiga Corporation. However, the main problem is that important schematics are missing, so it's not possible to perfectly reproduce the old chips. AFAIK only Alice schematics are available. Without schematics there's no way to faithfully replicate the operation of the original chips --> problems with the retromarket. I suspect the original NeoGeo RTL (code) and perhaps schematics were lost or they would be preferable to use.

Likely. But even having the RTL would require a lot of work.

If MiSTer has a very good soft core, then it might be worth using them.

At then, Neo Geo hadn't many games, and having accurate soft cores just for them is certainly good enough for the purpose.
Quote:

I believe the Amiga schematics are still around but I do not know about the RTL. Starting with the original RTL/schematics would increase appeal, compatibility, faithfulness and legitimacy as a successor.

Yes, but it might be difficult to move them to modern RTL (VHDL, Verilog, SystemC, ...).

Toni Wilen is making a great job at trying to accurately reproduce our splendid machines. If the code isn't hard to read, maybe it can be taken as the reference for implementing the chipset.

P.S. No time to read it again.

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

a whole page of matthey talking to himself. true taxi driver vibes

Which 99% of the time are more interesting, informative than what's been thrown around here, my posts included... you might not agree with the vision he's presenting, but then that's what arguments are for, instead you choose to focus on him personally, that goes on just showing how you roll.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@matthey

Quote:

The retro competition appears to be heating up. Too bad the Amiga IP squatting road blocks increase uncertainty for the Amiga market and people with foresight who tried to steer Amiga development toward max cost reduction and value mass market 68k ASIC SoCs were not listened to. Amiga developers could have led the way with the use of ASICs but instead we get no Ultimate 68k Amiga. Sadly, there were millions USD spent on niche of niche PPC bastard Amiga markets instead and these Amiga IP squatters still sabotage the much larger 68k Amiga market.

If the C64 Ultimate was able to cause such a stir, imagine what a good Amiga, true to its cause, product, could have done. Obviously, I’m not talking about something like a regular Pi board glued into a custom case running emulation, but something like the C64 Ultimate that could build a bridge between the old and the new. It would allow tapping into all those cool hardware hacks for the A1200 that one never had the opportunity to try back then—like those using the clock ports—and even enable new ones using modern fab facilities like PCBWay. It could create a nice ecosystem for people to mess with. There are those who want a finished product and those who just want something to tinker with.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@pixie

Friend Pixie I have nothing against our dearest companion Matthey.

"How I roll" is having a laugh at the people, a larger group than just our tender rim peddlers, who regard themselves as major authorities in a broad range of fields, by the mean of vomiting avalanche after avalance of numbers, benchmarks, and tech documeny copypastes.

With all their biblical sized writings, have Matthey, Cdimauro, Hammer and others ever really sent any meaningful messqge through? Have they carved in stone any significant epiphany for the members of this amigaworld of ours to nod upon? HAVE THEY?

At best, they have succeeded in being regarded as pedantic.
So, the ridicule seems a gentle, moderate measure to take on their posts.

Signed and Stamped,
Mega RJ Mical, Esquire

_________________
I HAVE ABS OF STEEL
--
CAN YOU SEE ME? CAN YOU HEAR ME? OK FOR WORK

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

Quote:

a whole page of matthey talking to himself.

My thoughts exactly.

Then a couple of the other usual suspects show up to spam more drivel.

@cdimauro

Quote:

I've talked with Matthew at the Amiga 40 in Germany, and he promised to add another moderator and fix the problems with the site.

Obviously he never got aroung to doing anything, because it seems you are still allowed to post !

@BillE

Quote:

My thoughts exactly. Then a couple of the other usual suspects show up to spam more drivel.

It's like you felt almost compeled to click on the thread and comment just to prove the point you've just done it... Spam drive. Irony was your own contribution, and we thank you for that.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@BillE

Quote:

BillE wrote: @cdimauro Quote: I've talked with Matthew at the Amiga 40 in Germany, and he promised to add another moderator and fix the problems with the site. Obviously he never got aroung to doing anything, because it seems you are still allowed to post !

Coherency isn't something found in your land.

I see much hatred and impatience with me. I don't know the reason, but I certainly know that I'm here to stay since I'm doing nothing against the TOS and I'm one which at least brings some value in this almost empty forum.

If you don't like me, well, you can always ignore me, right? But if you aren't even able to do this simple thing, then you can carry on drowning your anger in your own blood: enjoy!


@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote: @BillE Quote: My thoughts exactly. Then a couple of the other usual suspects show up to spam more drivel. It's like you felt almost compeled to click on the thread and comment just to prove the point you've just done it... Spam drive. Irony was your own contribution, and we thank you for that.

*

cdimauro Quote:

I've talked with Matthew at the Amiga 40 in Germany, and he promised to add another moderator and fix the problems with the site. Unfortunately, nothing changed after half a year, and the only way is to contact Steve (which isn't much active). The site is really abandoned to itself...

The HypeA-EonKit syndicate leaders talk the talk but they do not walk the walk. They are good at lip service and hype but lie, cheat, steal, sabotage others and stab in the back. From everything I have seen, they are selfish bad actors acting in bad faith. The secret funding of criminal lawyers using lawfare to coerce business partners in duress at their most vulnerable time should result in an illegal bad faith contract but was just the start of these parasites digging in. The best hope around these parasites is only because Ben received some karma for his criminal behavior, even though far short of prison time, and Trevor may not be funding Hyperion enough to stay alive for his long dead AmigaNOne hobby where Amiga Corp is so close to taking any such funding in another lawsuit win.

cdimauro Quote:

I've to say that I've seen a lot of interest around the A600GS when I was at the Amiga 40. Incredibly, there were some in the "corner" reserved for the largest die hard Amiga fans (which usually sport all kind of modded Amigas), and one of them said that it was a nice a comfortable to use. Maybe something is changing around retrogaming. People like to spend less time tinkering and just want to immediately use what they like.

The HypeA-EonKit syndicate sabotaged the competition. They tried to keep RGL out of the Amiga market, reduced their competitiveness and caused uncertainty reducing Amiga market investments. The NeoGeo market, which is smaller than the Amiga market, gets faithful hardware recreations and the most accurate ASIC hardware while the Amiga market gets the worst accuracy emulation and no support for original storage media or I/O. Take away the competition, and sure, RPi like hardware is one of the cheapest ways to provide stand alone emulation of the Amiga. I previously suggested that it was cheap and easy to do but also mentioned anyone else could do the same and that it is the wrong way to go. The real beneficiary of this type of hardware is RPI which I expect outsells the A600GS for retro 68k Amiga use by at least 100:1 and perhaps more like 1000:1. Like THEA500 Mini, the A600GS relies on bundled software to provide value. There is also some value from convenience in an assembled ready to use product.

cdimauro Quote:

But Amiga hadn't a unified memory system. We had two different types of memory, with fully independent buses. Not so much useful for the games of the time (I always preferred 1MB+ of Chip Mem), but that's the case.

Amiga standards used a unified memory architecture. Fast memory was an option on high end systems and became somewhat important because Commodore failed to adequately upgrade the chip memory bandwidth and chip addressable memory. Ranger chipset SRAM as Jay wanted could have made the Amiga a true unified memory architecture but it was also possible with chipset upgrades using SDRAM interleaved memory accesses even though there is sometimes a performance advantage for accessing separate memory banks. Commodore certainly preferred the hardware simplification and cost reduction of a unified memory architecture over the performance advantage of adding fast memory.

Let's compare the Amiga to NeoGeo with a discreet memory architecture like most console and computer architectures of the time, and the N64 using one of the early unified memory architectures.

NeoGeo Memories
RAM: 214 KiB SRAM
- Main 68000 RAM: 64 KiB SRAM
- Video RAM: 84 KiB SRAM
- Main VRAM: 64 KiB SRAM
- Palette memory: 16 KiB SRAM
- Fast video sprite RAM: 4 KiB SRAM
- Z80 sound RAM: 2 KiB SRAM
- Battery-backup save NVRAM: 64 KiB SRAM
ROM: 512 KiB on board
- Zoom look-up table: 128 KiB
- Fix layer graphics: 128 KiB
- Z80 sound: 128 KiB
- 68000 BIOS: 128 KiB
- cartridge: 41.25 MiB max

Amiga Memories
RAM: DRAM
- Chip RAM: 256 KiB - 2 MiB (OCS-AGA)
- Fast RAM: variable
ROM: 256 kiB - 1 MiB

N64 Memories
RAM:
- Main RAM: 4 MiB RDRAM (expandable to 8MiB)
- PIF RAM: 64 B SRAM (peripheral interface controller commands)
ROM:
- Cartridge ROM: 64 MiB max
- PIF ROM: 1984 B

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64#Technical_specifications Quote:

The Nintendo 64 was among the first consoles to implement a unified memory architecture, eliminating separate banks of random-access memory (RAM) for CPU, audio, and video operations. It features 4 MB of RDRAM (Rambus DRAM), expandable to 8 MB with the Expansion Pak. At the time, RDRAM was a relatively new technology that provided high bandwidth at a lower cost.

The 68k Amiga more closely resembles a unified memory architecture even if some purists may not consider it so. It gains most of the advantages including reduced memory copying, more efficient use of memory capacity, easier to program, simpler and more scalable hardware, etc.

cdimauro Quote:

An Amiga ASIC requires 3 CPUs, IMO: a 68000 (FX68K), a 68020 (TG68), and speed demon 68k core.

A FX68k/68000 core makes sense for max retro compatibility and can be used as a low power I/O core. I am not sure a TG68k/68020 core is necessary although it would improve compatibility, for example for A1200/CD32 compatibility. It may be possible to improve 68020 compatibility of 68k high performance cores by reducing clock speeds, disabling caches, cache snooping, etc. Many Amiga retro games have been patched with WHDLoad for a 68060 already and most OS friendly software should work without reducing performance, or at least without reducing more than the core clock frequency. A few more PLLs than most SoCs for clock timing and fully static cores to adjust clocks from 0 to max would be useful. Including a low performance 68020 core would not be a problem either if deemed valuable enough. As can be seen from the MiSTer project, it was the more deeply pipelined and larger cache 68040 and 80486 (81% of MiSTer FPGA logic) that start using more than a negligible amount of space in an ASIC. I expect some 68k Linux and 68k Mac users would be pushing for a 68040 core too, as it would save them work, but the less common 68060 is a better design for a 68k future.

cdimauro Quote:

The Amiga chipset can be set in the stone and shouldn't take much for OCS/ECS, AGA, and RTG. The rest could be a small FPGA block which allows evolutions of the platform.

The flexibility of FPGA support for chipsets is compelling and doesn't required too much FPGA space with hard CPU support of the more advanced CPUs.

cdimauro Quote:

Likely. But even having the RTL would require a lot of work. If MiSTer has a very good soft core, then it might be worth using them. At then, Neo Geo hadn't many games, and having accurate soft cores just for them is certainly good enough for the purpose.

Some RTL is better programmed and further prepared for an ASIC. RTL cores which have already been used for ASICs are further along in the testing and verification. Starting with a fully sythesizable core saves time. ColdFire chips used synthesized CPU cores and auto layout design tools for professional commodity chips. This reduced performance compared to using custom blocks but it was simpler and easier to move to new processes.

MOTOROLA THAWS COLDFIRE V4
https://www.cecs.uci.edu/~papers/mpr/MPR/2000/20000515/142001.PDF Quote:

The larger caches are the biggest reason that the die didn’t shrink dramatically. Another reason is starkly visible in Figure 2, the die photo. ColdFire is the only family of processors from Motorola that’s entirely synthesized from high-level models with automated design tools. There’s no custom circuit layout at all. Compiled chips are bigger, slower, and less power-efficient than full-custom designs, but they are much quicker and cheaper to create. Where a hand-packed design typically has neat blocks of function units inside a Piet Mondrian grid of buses, the 5407 has an amorphous mass of compiler-generated circuits on a Jackson Pollock canvas of silicon. The only semblance of order comes from the caches and on-chip memories around the periphery of the die. They’re compiled too, but SRAM arrays obediently fall into dense rows and columns, even without a guiding hand. Fortunately, the mess of logic circuitry isn’t as inefficient as it appears. Based on Motorola’s upper-range power consumption estimate of 700mW, the 5407 delivers a whopping 367 mips per watt, nearly four times better than the 5307’s 94.6 mips per watt. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but performance can be measured.

ColdFire designs still delivered good CISC integer performance even with a castrated 68k ISA and full auto layout tools reducing core design work.

cdimauro Quote:

Yes, but it might be difficult to move them to modern RTL (VHDL, Verilog, SystemC, ...).

Many of the old HDL core designs are in Verilog including 68k and ColdFire cores. Some of the buss standards are newer but even ColdFire uses AMBA busses developed by ARM and still in use today. Some file formats for ASIC like GDSII are still used today even though OASIS is now used for large ASICs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Microcontroller_Bus_Architecture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDSII
https://wdc65xx.com/intellectual-property

Early Amiga chipset, 68k CPU and 6502 family CPU designs used hand layout, but despite huge tech advances, some of the basic early tech is still used. The NeoGeo was released in the 1990s, approximately 5 years later than the Amiga chipset. The 68000 was released in 1979. The 68020 would have been too expensive for an Amiga console but not for a high end NeoGeo console considering all the expensive SRAM used. Some NeoGeo games experienced slow downs which is why there are over clocked NeoGeos and the NeoGeo AES+ supports over clocking. My point is, that the NeoGeo was late enough that it should have had regular HDL files, likely written in Verilog.

cdimauro Quote:

Toni Wilen is making a great job at trying to accurately reproduce our splendid machines. If the code isn't hard to read, maybe it can be taken as the reference for implementing the chipset.

Toni would be a valuable developer, or at least tester, if a 68k ASICs SoC was developed.

Last edited by matthey on 27-Apr-2026 at 09:52 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 27-Apr-2026 at 09:29 PM.
Last edited by matthey on 27-Apr-2026 at 09:10 PM.

pixie Quote:

If the C64 Ultimate was able to cause such a stir, imagine what a good Amiga, true to its cause, product, could have done. Obviously, I’m not talking about something like a regular Pi board glued into a custom case running emulation, but something like the C64 Ultimate that could build a bridge between the old and the new. It would allow tapping into all those cool hardware hacks for the A1200 that one never had the opportunity to try back then—like those using the clock ports—and even enable new ones using modern fab facilities like PCBWay. It could create a nice ecosystem for people to mess with. There are those who want a finished product and those who just want something to tinker with.

Right. A 68k Amiga is so much more than a 6502 family C64 with very limited compiler and OS choices. It is amazing that the C64 was once used in businesses but it feels like a limited toy today. Even a moderately enhanced 68k Amiga feels surprising modern, responsive and useful in comparison. A modernized 68k Amiga Ultimate would be more like a RPi 2 or 3 than a C64 Ultimate. Most legacy I/O could be available through a plug on the board or GPIO (a PS2 keyboard/serial port and A1200 clockports may be worth retaining on SBC). A low price would allow people to play with SBCs and just throw away the burn outs. Make them so that some of the RPi hats work with them for hobbyists allowing to easily turn into handheld gaming devices, tablets and notebooks. Some embedded use would likely come with it. There is not much competition using standard hardware at the small footprint a 68k Amiga can scale down to. Small footprint ARM/Thumb2 Linux flavors do not scale down to the 68k Amiga footprint, are not standard or are being discontinued for much larger footprint AArch64. The 68k Amiga has some challenges when scaling up, the most difficult being lack of SMP support, but the Amiga does not need to scale up far if it is cheap, easy to use and fun.