Poster | Thread |
ChrisH
 |  |
shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 21:53:08
| | [ #1 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 Posts: 6679
From: Unknown | | |
|
| Rogue wrote this Quote:
Quote:
jahc wrote:
If this plan goes ahead, does that mean current OS4 apps will run under a sandbox with the older kernel, and that the newer OS4.x apps will have enhanced features, and maybe a better form of memory protection? |
I wouldn't call it a sandbox, rather a virtual environment. The old system will run in its own address space as a separate task. It's not like a UAE or anything like that. It might or might not be able to become aware of the outside world, we still need to clear up the details. |
To which I have to say I am *stunned*. Never mind that this is very close to how MOS was designed, he's basically saying that OS4 (as it exists now) is a dead-end design, that will be relegated to a sand-box. It means they've given-up on the core OS4 idea of extending AmigaOS in a compatible way, and future changes will be highly incompatible. They might as well call it OS5..._________________ Author of the PortablE programming language. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue... |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
billt
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 21:58:07
| | [ #2 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 24-Oct-2003 Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA | | |
|
| @ChrisH
Quote:
he's basically saying that OS4 (as it exists now) is a dead-end design, that will be relegated to a sand-box. It means they've given-up on the core OS4 idea of extending AmigaOS in a compatible way, and future changes will be highly incompatible. |
I don't think there's enough quotes here for us to see to make those conclusions. We need some more context to wrap around what is quoted, and more relevant information before I can consider to agree with your assessment._________________ All glory to the Hypnotoad! |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Samwel
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 22:03:49
| | [ #3 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 7-Apr-2004 Posts: 3404
From: Sweden | | |
|
| @ChrisH
Are you for real??? Why *stunned*?
If we want modern features like support for multiple processors and memory protection then plenty has to change. I thought everyone understood this?
I even remember Rogue stating as much before here on AW. A bit more subtle than this statement but the same meaning.
Do you want to have OS3 features forever? Don't you want AmigaOS to evolve to something better?
_________________ /Harry
[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case
Avatar by HNL_DK! |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
pixie
 |  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 22:06:41
| | [ #4 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 3411
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal | | |
|
| @Samwel
Quote:
Do you want to have OS3 features forever? Don't you want AmigaOS to evolve |
Hard one... I would want him evolving, but I would want him to remain AmigaOS. If both can be attained all fine and dandy, if not I've got lot's of other windows to pick from..._________________ Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home. The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
adiaux
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:13:06
| | [ #5 ] |
|
|
 |
Super Member  |
Joined: 1-Jun-2006 Posts: 1249
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @ChrisH
(First, I also wrote a reply to you here.)
It's quite hilarious to see how Hyperion is actually "inventing" MorphOS in 2007, after all they said and all they did against MorphOS in general and this feature in particular. What can one say? Now they are copying a core idea of MorphOS they have been mocking for so long. Well, I can't say I'm surprised, not anymore. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
adiaux
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:16:17
| | [ #6 ] |
|
|
 |
Super Member  |
Joined: 1-Jun-2006 Posts: 1249
From: Unknown | | |
|
| |
Status: Offline |
|
|
jorkany
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:22:38
| | [ #7 ] |
|
|
 |
Cult Member  |
Joined: 1-May-2005 Posts: 922
From: Space Coast | | |
|
| @Samwel Quote:
If we want modern features like support for multiple processors and memory protection then plenty has to change. I thought everyone understood this? |
Apparently not, because why spend six years messing around with OS4? Why not just go right to the real OS? I think that's the "shocking" part, at least for some.
_________________ Here for the whimpering end |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
stew
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:24:01
| | [ #8 ] |
|
|
 |
Regular Member  |
Joined: 26-Sep-2003 Posts: 453
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Samwel
Quote:
Are you for real??? Why *stunned*? |
For one thing that is certainly far outside the original license. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
number6
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:25:42
| | [ #9 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 25-Mar-2005 Posts: 11662
From: In the village | | |
|
| @all
Discussion and [poll] from 2005
Lots of comments in the thread from developers, beta testers, engineers. Interesting stuff for those who missed it.
#6
_________________ This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author. *Secrecy has served us so well* |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Legion
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:28:02
| | [ #10 ] |
|
|
 |
Cult Member  |
Joined: 21-Apr-2003 Posts: 820
From: Fargo, ND, USA | | |
|
| @takemehomegrandma
Quote:
after all they said and all they did against MorphOS in general |
You really need to substantiate... no, wait. Nevermind. I no longer have the patience for this sort of thing. I'll simply whack the abuse button instead.
_________________ ...wait... what? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Hans
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:43:43
| | [ #11 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5116
From: New Zealand | | |
|
| @ChrisH
The differences between the new OS and old one don't have to be as drastic as people think. I have no idea how they plan to implement this, but it doesn't have to be like MacOS. MacOS X is essentially a whole new OS (a Mach kernel + BSD code) with a compatibility layer for old software. Amiga OS 4.x could still use essentially the same API, but just have more restrictions.
The key problems holding the current OS back that I can think of are: - Programs are allowed to read the OS structures directly - For some things you have to look in the OS structures as no accessor functions are available - The message passing method assumes that all memory is accessible to both tasks - Forbid()/Permit() is a real performance killer on multi-processor machines, and not a nice API in general
These problems could all be fixed with relatively minor changes to the Amiga OS API. However, if you fix any of the above issues, many old programs won't work anymore. Putting the old programs in a virtual machine of some sort will allow the rest of the system to move ahead and allow old programs to run.
Hans
_________________ Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
A500
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 0:17:45
| | [ #12 ] |
|
|
 |
Regular Member  |
Joined: 24-Feb-2006 Posts: 352
From: Ontario, Canada | | |
|
| I will be very happy should OS4.0 actually be available. There are a few of you fortunate enough to have the OS. For the rest of us, its vapourware and it is getting rather humid in here. It still stuns me why Amiga Inc is in business with so little income or products.
Three cheers to the eventual release of OS4.0 to the rest of us and three cheers to developing the OS into the future. _________________
|
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Toaks
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 0:23:52
| | [ #13 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com | | |
|
| @takemehomegrandma
Quote:
takemehomegrandma wrote: @ChrisH
(First, I also wrote a reply to you here.)
It's quite hilarious to see how Hyperion is actually "inventing" MorphOS in 2007, after all they said and all they did against MorphOS in general and this feature in particular. What can one say? Now they are copying a core idea of MorphOS they have been mocking for so long. Well, I can't say I'm surprised, not anymore. |
So OS4.x will become morphos now? , i simply cannot follow you now....
Oh, so morphos is AmigaOS with 1 extra feature now? , i bet the morphos core team would love to have seen your comment, ah yeah...i am not suprised anymore either.
_________________ See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
samface
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 0:40:52
| | [ #14 ] |
|
|
 |
Super Member  |
Joined: 10-Apr-2003 Posts: 1161
From: Norrköping, Sweden | | |
|
| @takemehomegrandma
Quote:
takemehomegrandma wrote: @ChrisH
(First, I also wrote a reply to you here.)
It's quite hilarious to see how Hyperion is actually "inventing" MorphOS in 2007, after all they said and all they did against MorphOS in general and this feature in particular. What can one say? Now they are copying a core idea of MorphOS they have been mocking for so long. Well, I can't say I'm surprised, not anymore. |
Excuse me but... Wasn't it *exactly* the other way around? I remember back when the plans for AmigaOS4.x up to AmigaOS5 was announced by Amiga Inc. and when I had to explain the AmigaOS4 sandbox for AmigaOS5 idea to certain MorphOS supporters who mocked it without realizing that the so called "A-Box" in MorphOS was exactly the same thing. Oh well..._________________ Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"
MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.
Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish) |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
minator
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 0:42:03
| | [ #15 ] |
|
|
 |
Super Member  |
Joined: 23-Mar-2004 Posts: 1015
From: Cambridge | | |
|
| Quote:
he's basically saying that OS4 (as it exists now) is a dead-end design, that will be relegated to a sand-box. |
It's been a dead end OS design since desktop OSs started getting memory protection, that's was well over 10 years ago now.
Quote:
It's quite hilarious to see how Hyperion is actually "inventing" MorphOS in 2007 |
Don't you mean "inventing" OS X.
Anyway, I don't see what all the fuss is about, this change has been a long time coming, and I don't believe this is the the first it's been talked about, didn't they same something like this at AmiWest a few years back?_________________ Whyzzat? |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Darth_X
 |  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 0:50:34
| | [ #16 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 1-Jun-2003 Posts: 2997
From: Vancouver Island, Canada | | |
|
| Quote:
samface wrote:
Excuse me but... Wasn't it *exactly* the other way around? I remember back when the plans for AmigaOS4.x up to AmigaOS5 was announced by Amiga Inc. and when I had to explain the AmigaOS4 sandbox for AmigaOS5 idea to certain MorphOS supporters who mocked it without realizing that the so called "A-Box" in MorphOS was exactly the same thing. Oh well... |
Attention AmigaWorld moderators and readers: What Samface is alleging here is completely FALSE and cannot back up what he says with evidence. _________________ Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen! |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
debrun
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 0:57:42
| | [ #17 ] |
|
|
 |
Regular Member  |
Joined: 1-Oct-2006 Posts: 347
From: New York | | |
|
| @ChrisH
You're right! All those AmigaOS's were all MorphOS's being copied ALL ALONG! Hyperion stole the Morph team's ideas and well heck, you might as well say it took 6 years of AOS development because Hyperion had to reverse engineer everything MorphOS did.
So... EVERYONE, AmigaOS 4 and its future developments are all pirated ideas from the genius of the Morph team. Everyone line up behind MorphOS! Its the reall AmigaOS and they did ALL their OWN work.
Yawn.... _________________ If you're going through hell, keep going. -Winston Churchill |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
Mr_DBUG
 |  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 1:26:14
| | [ #18 ] |
|
|
 |
Regular Member  |
Joined: 12-Dec-2005 Posts: 180
From: South of Oslo | | |
|
| @ChrisH
Im happy as long as their is ANY plan and ANY AMIGAOS development continues .. |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
ChrisH
 |  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 1:46:39
| | [ #19 ] |
|
|
 |
Elite Member  |
Joined: 30-Jan-2005 Posts: 6679
From: Unknown | | |
|
| @Samwel, etc I'm not stunned because this wasn't inevitable, because many said it was (just ask Ralph or Bernie...), but rather: I am stunned because the whole *design* of OS4 so far has been aimed at maintaining compatibility withOUT using a sand-box. It was also a key differentiator between OS4 & MOS, in the stupid red vs blue war.
If you had said 1-2 years ago that OS4 would use a sand-box, you would have been lynched. This is a COMPLETE turn-around in the design philosophy. Just the fact that a sandbox was not planned until OS5 should show you how big a change this is. _________________ Author of the PortablE programming language. It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue... |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|
samface
|  |
Re: shocking OS4 news from Rogue Posted on 15-Aug-2007 2:01:22
| | [ #20 ] |
|
|
 |
Super Member  |
Joined: 10-Apr-2003 Posts: 1161
From: Norrköping, Sweden | | |
|
| @Darth_X
First of all, I didn't claim to know anything *as a matter of fact* in that post. As should've been clear by the way I expressed myself, it was about how I remembered a certain scenario of events. That's about as subjective as it gets and really cannot be proven "wrong" to begin with. Even if I would have incorrect memories, they are still my memories.
Secondly, even if you insist that my post consisted of false claims, evidence that the AmigaOS4 sandbox was a part of the original development plans for the next generation AmigaOS can be found here:
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amigaosdev1.html
Quote:
AmigaOS4 sandbox - Similar to the MacOS X approach to previous MacOS software. |
As for the claim that Hyperion mocked the idea of a "sandbox", don't try to shift the burden of proof on to me. Takemehomegrandma made that claim and it's up to him to prove it.
The above makes YOUR post completely false on three counts. Would you like to announce this to the world in bold text too?_________________ Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"
MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.
Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish) |
|
Status: Offline |
|
|