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      /  Amiga.com down?
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PosterThread
Cool_amigaN 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 13:50:40
#221 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1204
From: Athens/Greece

@Jacken

Quote:

Jacken wrote:
@Cool_amigaN

No it wasn't. We can arguee about this, buy actually you can read this contract.


Contract


OK, the first design goal of OS4.0 as stated p. 47 (p.8 of teh pdf) was to make OS3.9 running on AmigaOne and CS ppc without using 68k code.

So, what is different from what I said? The goal was to port OS3.9 to ppc and name it OS4.0. OS4.0 would use as much possible ppc native code, not using a single line of 68k, and JIT developed by a third party.

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Jacken 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 14:03:08
#222 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jul-2004
Posts: 150
From: Glimma / Sweden

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:
Honestly, I don't believe that Hyperion are angels. They surely took advantage of the financial state and inability of Amiga Inc. to make anything right.


Thanks. Thats one of my points.

Quote:
On the other hand, I very much doubt that OS4.x would have resorted to AA as a layer between thus becoming hardware independent although it sounds cool as an idea. AA was in an amateurish level since not a single useful app was created in-house, demonstrating its usability. Look, the best example is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2bofFSjPEc&feature=related There are no words to describe it... :(


Actually, at the time when this was "on the road and rockin" I was not very happy with all this DE, but now, after reading old documents, asked developers, companys (that are gone from our community, not because of AmigaInc but for another one) I do belive that they had a vision of something that could have been unique. On this matter I have changed my point of view, today I don't see any future in AA, sadly.

And I don't think or belive that is so hard to understand or try to understand why AmigaInc at that point wanted their product (that they bought from Gateway) back.
I really can't understand why it's so hard to see that?

We know that IT(computer, imformation technology) sector back then had a crash, that affected us to.
How.? We know that they where involved with Nokia, Sharp and others.

Even if some us here don't share the same point of view in this matter, there is no reason at all to hang individuals for this, and call them yadda yadda.

_________________
AmigaOne G4 800Mhz, A1200TPPC 040/33 240Mhz, 2 A2000, A600,A600HD
A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
And yeap, it's my dog...16 years old in 2015

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Jacken 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 14:11:51
#223 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jul-2004
Posts: 150
From: Glimma / Sweden

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:
OK, the first design goal of OS4.0 as stated p. 47 (p.8 of teh pdf) was to make OS3.9 running on AmigaOne and CS ppc without using 68k code.


Humm... no read that line again, please.

It says:
OS 3.9 running on the AmigaOne and CyberStorm PPC without using the 68k CPU, using a 68k Emulator.

Do you see the difference?

Last edited by Jacken on 10-Feb-2010 at 02:12 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne G4 800Mhz, A1200TPPC 040/33 240Mhz, 2 A2000, A600,A600HD
A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
And yeap, it's my dog...16 years old in 2015

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Cool_amigaN 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 14:32:07
#224 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1204
From: Athens/Greece

@Jacken

Quote:

Jacken wrote:
@Cool_amigaN

Quote:
OK, the first design goal of OS4.0 as stated p. 47 (p.8 of teh pdf) was to make OS3.9 running on AmigaOne and CS ppc without using 68k code.


Humm... no read that line again, please.

It says:
OS 3.9 running on the AmigaOne and CyberStorm PPC without using the 68k CPU, using a 68k Emulator.

Do you see the difference?



But right afterwards it clearly says that the exec must be ppc native (not to mention ... ppc code as much ... and ... ppc native file system). So, it was a mixture of ppc + JIT. And you still don't consider that porting of AOS? They were moving from 68k machines to ppc cpus, they were shifting hardware platform entirely. The goal was that 3.9 will be have ppc exec (the core of OS), using as much as possible ppc native code on the rest of the parts, it won't be using a single line of 68k and the parts that won't be replaced by ppc will be under JIT.

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Jacken 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 14:50:29
#225 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jul-2004
Posts: 150
From: Glimma / Sweden

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:
But right afterwards it clearly says that the exec must be ppc native So, it was a mixture of ppc + JIT.

Exec must be PPC. But not the rest.

Quote:
And you still don't consider that porting of AOS?

No, not the entire OS.
As I wrote before, the firts goal was to make a quick port of AmigaOS.

That is why it says that the exec must be in PPC. Not the rest, because that would be handled through the 68k emulator.

But if there is time to do more, do it. But the the main thing was the exec.

I states that:
As much PPC-native as necessary as soon as possible.

And the timeline was March 2002.

Last edited by Jacken on 10-Feb-2010 at 03:16 PM.

_________________
AmigaOne G4 800Mhz, A1200TPPC 040/33 240Mhz, 2 A2000, A600,A600HD
A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
And yeap, it's my dog...16 years old in 2015

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 15:27:35
#226 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@graffias79

Quote:
I thought Gateway was purchased by Acer a few years ago?


Yes and no. I think mostly NO, in terms of what would interest amigans.

Quote:
7:23 AM EDT Wed. Sep. 05, 2007 PC maker Gateway continued the frenzied pace of wheeling and dealing on Wednesday, saying it agreed to sell its profitable professional unit to system builder MPC.


(the week before was the agreement with Acer, but not the execution itself of the purchase)

then almost a year later...

Quote:
Jul 25th 2008 7:54PM -
Gateway ditches direct sales model, goes purely indirect


All of which is dwarfed by news FOUR years earlier regarding the illustrious amiga patents and Hewlett-Packard.

Quote:
July 2, 2004
Amiga Development LLC v Hewlett-Packard Company

Quote:
According to the terms of the definitive patent cross-license agreement, each party was granted a limited cross-license to the patents of the other party covering specified products in specified product categories, which license will terminate after a period of seven years with respect to all but seven of the cross-licensed patents and will continue for the life of the remaining seven patents.


Added:
At Amiwest 2006 Carl Sassenrath touched on this subject.
He was asked whether he still had Amigas.
He answered basically what he used them for at that time.
He said the main motivator for turning them on is "lawyers", who contact him regarding what is known as "prior art in patent cases"
An example he noted was current 1/2 billion dollar lawsuit over patents involving Amiga technology.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 10-Feb-2010 at 03:39 PM.

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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ddni 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 15:50:48
#227 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

email to webmaster@amiga.com

bouncing

Reporting-MTA: dns;blu0-omc4-s12.blu0.hotmail.com
Received-From-MTA: dns;BLU109-W11
Arrival-Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 07:48:14 -0800

Final-Recipient: rfc822;webmaster@amiga.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.5.0
Diagnostic-Code: smtp;554 The mail could not be delivered to the recipient because the domain is not reachable. Please check the domain and try again (672060295:329:-2147467259)

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AmigaOne X1000

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Chuckt 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 15:58:17
#228 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2008
Posts: 445
From: Unknown

@Dandy

Quote:

I wasn't really talking about the website.
I was more aiming at the ownership of the rights to the name "Amiga".

Up to now they were exclusively licensed to AInc by Gateway, IIRC.
If AInc now would get dissolved, I would assume that the rights to the name fall back to the owner - Gateway.

And if someone wants to use the name legally, I'd think he would have to approach Gateway to obtain a similar license as AInc had.


I am willing to donate $10 for Amiga users to buy back the IP from those guys.

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ddni 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 16:01:06
#229 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

@Chuckt

lol maybe you have overvalued it by a factor of $10

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AmigaOne X1000

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Troels 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 21:20:59
#230 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1994
From: Unknown

@Jacken
Short answers please.
Did Amiga Inc ever deliver the needed sourcecode for Hyperion to do the port?
Did Amiga ever finish AmigaDE?
Did they ever finish AA2?
Did Amiga inc (through the voice of Bill McEwen) promise insane things like AmigaOS5 will be better than OSX etc...
Did Amiga Inc respect their costumers when they did the coupon scam?

@Linnar
Yes AA2 comes with a nice manual but that doesn't help as no developers is interested (for good reasons).

Also for a company of the size that Amiga Inc is/was (in McEwen's own words) AA2 is NOT impressive at all.

Last edited by Troels on 10-Feb-2010 at 11:10 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 22:27:40
#231 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9254
From: Unknown

@Troels

Quote:
Short answers please.


No, not all.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
I don´t know.

Quote:
Also for a company of the size that Amiga Inc is/was (in McEwen's own words) AA2 is NOT impressive at all.


I agree.

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 22:29:10
#232 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Troels

Quote:

@Linnar
Yes AA2 comes with a nice manual but that doesn't help as no developers is interested (or good reasons).

Also for a company of the size that Amiga Inc is/was (in McEwen's own words) AA2 is NOT impressive at all.

AA2 is in beta stage. It has not made much noise there is or was. For now it has changed its focus and "moved people to OS5. Therefore, do not use so many of this suite. However, I know that at least some 20 have tested it.

I've tested it a few nights (limited time) and I must say that the 150MB that you get is really good, high quality and makes great programs. I can see in the code that you have prepared AA2 for at least 6 different operating systems if I remember correctly.
The functions and macros are very uniform named in a way that is easy to understand what they are for.
The negative is just that it is an early beta version. There is no editor to get a program with a similar dos window when you enter manually, what is compiled and to which the hosted OS / hardware. The code must be write in any editor.
Jamie Krueger perhaps worked / works with become an integrated editor AA2 (a guess).

What I set and tested by AA2 is surprisingly good and made operational. The programmers behind seems to be good. At several places, I can see the comments type "Should be done", etc. signed by name. Count one of the names I come up to 4 or 5 different people. I am writing from memory so some information may be incorrect.
I have worked in various C dialects, so I know what it is about and can say that AA2 is professional and competent so far.

I would like to see a continuation of AA2!

To you and more with you think AA2 is bad garbage is not surprising because it is a law of nature to dislike it as Amiga Inc. did. I think those who tested the AA2 and those not tested or even seen AA2. I would probably say that those who are not even seen AA2 are those who think least of AA2. Nothing strange about it because it's a law of nature. I am constantly tripping over the law here on the forum.

Last edited by linnar on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:39 PM.
Last edited by linnar on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:31 PM.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 22:46:38
#233 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

I found a picture of the game Brix, which I compiled with the attached sample code. picture is taken directly from the programs I compile and test played on and is life-size. The size can change how it wants the code. do they want it in full screen write just enter it into a function. In my example is compiled for windows32, which means all the windows from Win95 onwards. I tested without problems on WinXP, WINNT4, 0, Win2000, and WinVista.
The far right sees the ball as soft and nice moves gracefully across the screen after it bounced on the gray plate under the ball in the picture. Every time it hits something one hears a matching sound. The plate is controlled with the arrow keys.



You may be content with this for so long. I've found a bug in my accounting software so I have little to do the next few days. Have to work with, otherwise, I get angry customers to me.

Last edited by linnar on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:54 PM.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Jacken 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 23:24:50
#234 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jul-2004
Posts: 150
From: Glimma / Sweden

@pavlor

Thank's for the answers.

_________________
AmigaOne G4 800Mhz, A1200TPPC 040/33 240Mhz, 2 A2000, A600,A600HD
A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
And yeap, it's my dog...16 years old in 2015

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 11-Feb-2010 6:19:33
#235 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

A note:
We often see people here write about derogatory statement as "AmigaOS5 will be better than OSX". The reason is that this forum has concluded that this is not true, right?
The answer is actually much more interesting than Bill McEwen's claim.
To determine if "AmigaOS5 will be better than OSX" should reasonably have been tested "OS5". My interest is based sg on the question of where one can test "OS5"? I also want to try this mythical operating system because I throw out the question, where can I test it?

Very many here've proven that when tested the same number must also be able to show me where you can test, or am I wrong?

For it can hardly be that they throw out a lot of rumors to further discredit the Amiga Inc? No, I do not think, so up to the evidence, show where I can test 'OS5'!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Caveman 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 11-Feb-2010 7:12:17
#236 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@linnar

You are in fact testing it right now,as we speak. AmigaOS 5 IS the matrix!

_________________

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 11-Feb-2010 9:08:09
#237 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Caveman

Quote:

Caveman wrote:
@linnar

You are in fact testing it right now,as we speak. AmigaOS 5 IS the matrix!

OK, you have not tested "OS5".

Someone else?

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Caveman 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 11-Feb-2010 9:36:52
#238 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@linnar

Nobody has. How do you expect A.inc would be capable to deliver a OS better than OSX,when A.inc had/has 10 employee at the most. At the best,it's nothing more than some line of code,with 99.99% more to go... But personally i don't think it excist at all.

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polka. 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 11-Feb-2010 10:19:24
#239 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote:
OK, you have not tested "OS5".

Someone else?


How to test something that doesn't exist at all?

_________________
This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 11-Feb-2010 11:44:53
#240 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Caveman

Quote:

Caveman wrote:
@linnar

Nobody has. How do you expect A.inc would be capable to deliver a OS better than OSX,when A.inc had/has 10 employee at the most. At the best,it's nothing more than some line of code,with 99.99% more to go... But personally i don't think it excist at all.

It is possible that you are right but just possible. Nobody knows, and then no one can know whether something is better or worse than anything else.
The possibility of "OS5" does not exist at all, but is also the possibility that it really exists is a bit larger than the opposite when it demonstrably has developed AA2 and that there is much proof that it worked at least one person with Amiga Inc. as a programmer. Has it worked a person may also have been working more. it may also be that other companies with the same owner has been working at Amiga Inc.

Now that there is a possibility that we worked on a "OS5" we must not deny it categorically. By contrast, express their doubts to it.

About Amiga Inc dissolution perhaps Mr. Kruger can tell you what it was for the "OS5".

Somewhere deep inside, I have also a doubt that it really exist. Might have started the job but are far from a complete operating system. That said Bill McEwen also a few years ago.


Quote:
But personally i don't think it excist at all.

I respect that. We do not know the truth about this os so, it is the right way to express themselves.

Last edited by linnar on 11-Feb-2010 at 11:47 AM.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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