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PosterThread
Arko 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 13:05:49
#281 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Arko

Quote:
No I have never seen any aouncement about a future Altivec support in AOS4


Announced and introduced there


So Alivec support is restricted to AOS4.0 pre release, that explains why it is not widely in use in AOS4.1 on A1 or PegII

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 13:08:46
#282 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Arko
if it was "restricted" there would be no use at all on 4.1. Mplayer uses Altivec on AOS4.1 don't know what other programs make use of it.

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pavlor 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 13:15:29
#283 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9373
From: Unknown

@Arko

Quote:
So Alivec support is restricted to AOS4.0 pre release, that explains why it is not widely in use in AOS4.1 on A1 or PegII


I hope this was joke...

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bernd_afa 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 17:09:06
#284 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@DAX
>So each core has a VMX unit that is internally divided into 2 parts?

Yes

http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/fact_sheet/MPC7448FACT.pdf

I guess thats the CPU in Mac Mini.

Here you can see the G4 altivec.it use 4 independent units and also 4 Interger Units

below stand it use 11 independent Units and pa6t only 6 as we find out

Last edited by bernd_afa on 30-Jun-2010 at 05:13 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 17:15:24
#285 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9373
From: Unknown

@bernd_afa

Quote:
I guess thats the CPU in Mac Mini.


No. Mac Mini uses 7447A...

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 18:14:43
#286 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12277
From: Norway

@Arko

No it’s not restricted.

It is available in all versions of AmigaOS4.1/4.0, but only G4 CPU’s can use it.

Most AmigaOS4 compliable hardware has PowerPC G3, AMCC440 or 604,603 CPU’s, that’s maybe way developers have not invested time in supporting Altivec in their applications.

Mplayer exists in two versions whit Altivec and whit out, also not all codec’s in mplayer uses Altivec,

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billt 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 18:49:02
#287 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3204
From: Maryland, USA

@Arko

Quote:
So Alivec support is restricted to AOS4.0 pre release


Eh? Why are you making up such nonsense?

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ChrisH 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 19:49:58
#288 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6674
From: Unknown

@billt
Probably because it's easier than actually checking the facts first...

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Arko 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 20:14:51
#289 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
@billt
Probably because it's easier than actually checking the facts first...


There is no feature list on the Hyperion WWW site. Do you have a feature list ?
What system libraries in AOS4 are using Altivec ?

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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Arko 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 20:15:05
#290 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
@billt
Probably because it's easier than actually checking the facts first...


There is no feature list on the Hyperion WWW site. Do you have a feature list ?
What system libraries in AOS4 are using Altivec ?

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 30-Jun-2010 21:34:37
#291 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12277
From: Norway

@Arko

I completely agree, it’s where annoying dig into Amigawold news and Hyperion news items to get complete feature list of the operating system.

What happened to AmigaOS4.com?

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KimmoK 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 11:07:10
#292 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

Anyone studied LSI's Axxia PPC processor?

It seems to be based on IBM PPC467 core.
http://www.lsi.com/DistributionSystem/AssetDocument/LSI-at-MWC-2010-060210.pdf
http://www.lsi.com/DistributionSystem/AssetDocument/LSI_PB_2pg_Axxia_C_LR.pdf

Still, not found details where A-Eon's / Varisys PA6T chips come from...

Old rumors.... or something:
"So, who's eager to buy these PA chips? Microsoft have contracted to begin using them in their second generation XBox 360, and Nintendo are in negotiations. The US defence industry has allegedly committed to a million units, most likely headed for use in guidance systems.
(For those who don't know, PA Semi is a small but well financed chipmaker which is essentially the same LSI design team that created the famous SPARC chip for Sun and are now a major player in the Power alliance with Freescale and IBM.)"



Power Architecture roadmap 2010:
http://www.power.org/resources/devcorner/roadmap/Power_org_PA_Roadmap_2010_.pdf

Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2010 at 11:16 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 11:46:29
#293 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4423
From: Australia

@bernd_afa

Quote:

bernd_afa wrote:
@DAX
>So each core has a VMX unit that is internally divided into 2 parts?

Yes

http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/fact_sheet/MPC7448FACT.pdf

I guess thats the CPU in Mac Mini.

Here you can see the G4 altivec.it use 4 independent units and also 4 Interger Units

below stand it use 11 independent Units and pa6t only 6 as we find out


G4's Altivec units are not symmetric and the front-end is limited to 3 instructions and 1 branch issue per cycle.

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 11:51:17
#294 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@bernd_afa
Do concentrate on this: the only area AmigaOS had troubles until now are those programs that are heavy on float/vector math (the others run nicely on a 533Mhz Sam440ep go figure), so the only concern we have is how this CPU performs in that regard (since the aforementioned "easier" software is guaranteed to go beyond lightspeed).

What we found out is that the PA6T divides the Altivec engine tasks (Permute, Simple, Complex, Float) among two discrete units for better efficiency, it also offers superior branch prediction, larger L1 cache, way larger and programmable L2 cache and the ability to execute many cisc instructions natively without the use of microcode or software traps.

It seems nicely equipped, which leads me to believe that AmigaOS and related software will be blazingly fast on this beast.

Last edited by DAX on 01-Jul-2010 at 12:54 PM.
Last edited by DAX on 01-Jul-2010 at 12:29 PM.

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kidkoala 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 12:55:22
#295 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Mar-2003
Posts: 96
From: Unknown

@DAX

Quote:
the ability to execute many cisc instructions natively without the use of microcode or software traps.


whats this mean?

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Hammer 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 12:57:36
#296 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4423
From: Australia

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@bernd_afa
Do concentrate on this: the only area AmigaOS had troubles until now are those programs that are heavy on float/vector math (the others run nicely on a 533Mhz Sam440ep go figure), so the only concern we have is how this CPU performs in that regard (since the aforementioned "easier" software is guaranteed to go beyond lightspeed).

What we found out is that the PA6T divides the Altivec engine tasks (Permute, Simple, Complex, Float) among two discrete units for better efficiency, it also offers superior branch prediction, larger L1 cache, way larger and programmable L2 cache and the ability to execute many cisc instructions natively without the use of microcode or software traps.

It seems nicely equipped, which leads me to believe that AmigaOS and related software will be blazingly fast on this beast.

CISC is usually associated with variable instruction length.

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Ryzen 9 3900X, DDR4-3200 32 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
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Amiga 500 (rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi3a/Emu68)

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 13:18:58
#297 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

In general I presume that direct handling of anything is better than work arounds (as used in G4/G5/MP970).
They say PA6T CISC handling helps with latencies (?) but alas, it's only one of its features.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 13:20:32
#298 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12277
From: Norway

@DAX

Altivec does not make programs automatic faster, programs has to be written for Altivec

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KimmoK 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 13:48:27
#299 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5209
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@NutsAboutAmiga

And not everything need to be hand written. There are SW vektoricing tools and some automated optimization in compilers and altivec enabled math libraries.
(and Altivec aware datatypes and...)

Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2010 at 01:48 PM.

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 1-Jul-2010 13:50:01
#300 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@NutsAboutAmiga
I know, and not all programs would require it anyway, but it seems that many were concerned about those that can take advantage of it (such as Video Playback and 3D Rendering) in the past, and the X1000 at least delivers plenty of capability in that regard (read:if devs need it it's there).

Anyway, think how fast mplayer will perform with Altivec, 2GHZ and all that cache

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