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      /  AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
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freeaks 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 13:43:58
#941 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Jan-2010
Posts: 225
From: Unknown

@fab

before i would consider even just looking at the sdk,
i'd want :
- resource tracking (freeing resource of dead progs, allow killing dead progs)
- memory protection (allow killing dead progs and also progs not allowed to behave badly cause system crashs or kill other tasks)
- system complete support for unicode (allow international language display)
- and finaly, idealy, the system would be opensource

now some of this is more or less implemented in fragments scatered on the 3 different OSes:
os4 is doing some ground work on memory management
aros is opensource
the 3 of them allow only partial support for unicode
none have proper memory protection nor resource tracking yet.
;)

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 14:16:18
#942 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@kas1e

Quote:
You need not refer or saing about any of your crashes of beta-very-alpha-buggy-unfixed-beta-alpha version which you have. All the problems which you can have there, can be already fixed or not present at all anymore.


Yep Roman infact that question was for you. this SVG is already implemented (aka you compiled MUI-OWB on OS4 with SVG enabled) or not

@freeaks

Quote:
join and help aros ? no thanks.
amigaos and clones are unusable as operating system.
useless. crashy, no software, no modern standards, it's the 3rd world of computing.


How childish ... what the point to stress our developers with such off topic crap ?

If you don't like AmigaOS or clone go away and use your preferred OS but don't stress us, that's it, so difficult to understand ??

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itix 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 14:23:26
#943 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@freeaks

Quote:

none have proper memory protection nor resource tracking yet.


And they never will unless you rewrite it from scratch. Those issues are built-in feature in Amiga.

Just like this OpenLocale() bug kas1e and Deniil found. There was no resource to free because no application did quit. Memory protection would not help either because the system did what it was designed to do. To make it fail safe you really have to redesign the API from scratch.

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Samwel 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 16:04:04
#944 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@tonyw

Quote:

What is this "Update 3" you are talking about? Are you expecting or hoping for Hyperion to make a new release of OS4.1?

AFAIK Hyperion have not even suggested that there might be another Update.


That's not what Steven Solie said in December.

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Tomppeli 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 17:25:04
#945 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1646
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@kas1e
+1

Quote:
Just like this OpenLocale() bug kas1e and Deniil found. To make it fail safe you really have to redesign the API from scratch.

When the counter goes around the function could return null for failure instead of returning a valid memory pointer. No need to change API at all.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 17-Apr-2011 at 05:27 PM.

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Tuxedo 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 17:38:55
#946 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2327
From: Perugia, ITALY

@freeaks

mmm...
Since your statements I tought:
Why he is still around if no fun in OS4/MOS/AROS?
Why simply dont left the scene insstead of blaming everything and everyone?
Wasnt useless?

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itix 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 21:21:28
#947 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Tomppeli

Quote:

When the counter goes around the function could return null for failure instead of returning a valid memory pointer. No need to change API at all.


First of all, OpenLocale(NULL) is guaranteed to return valid locale. Then another problem, if open counter reaches its maximum then other programs would also stop working. And finally, it does not fix for(;;) CloseLocale(loc); problem.

Same problem applies to libraries not having application specific library bases (or interfaces). When open counter reaches zero (due to OpenLibrary() or CloseLibrary()) nasty things can happen.

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tonyw 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 17-Apr-2011 22:54:22
#948 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3229
From: Sydney (of course)

@kas1e:

Let's just assume that this is what happened: after too many Open() calls, the function's Open count wrapped around to a negative value or zero and the resource was marked for expunge. The function returned the same address (although perhaps it should have returned NULL).

But then, by the time the app received it, the structure had been freed and the data had been destroyed.

If you had been using the debug kernel and the MUNGE keyword in the OS4 command line, the program would have crashed immediately and you would have got a DSI to address DEADBEEF.

Using the debug kernel when developing software is highly recommended. It will help you catch situations like these.

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 1:29:01
#949 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12343
From: Norway

@tonyw

The API does not need to be redesigned, way not simple do some thing like this.
this simple code will make it impossible for lib_count to run out of control.


void *OpenLib()
{

task = FindTask(NULL);

if ( ! resource_list_check(task) )
{
resource_list_add(task);
lib_count++;
}

return libbase;
}


void CloseLib()
{
task = FindTask(NULL);

if ( resource_list_check(task) )
{
resource_list_remove(task);
--lib_count;
}
}

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Apr-2011 at 01:40 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Apr-2011 at 01:36 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Apr-2011 at 01:35 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Apr-2011 at 01:34 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Apr-2011 at 01:31 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 18-Apr-2011 at 01:29 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 1:51:44
#950 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12343
From: Norway

@tonyw

Quote:
AFAIK Hyperion have not even suggested that there might be another Update.


I think people are expecting an update for Sam460 as drivers are missing for sound and SATA2.
the product can't be considered complate, of cause it might be ACube update or Hyperion update.

we are also hopeing for update for USB, waiting for a long time for USB2 support for Sam440/460 (and PCI cards).

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 7:54:50
#951 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@Tonyw
Quote:

If you had been using the debug kernel and the MUNGE keyword in the OS4 command line, the program would have crashed immediately and you would have got a DSI to address DEADBEEF.

Using the debug kernel when developing software is highly recommended. It will help you catch situations like these.


We do all of this back on the few pages ago in that thread. And munge, and debug kernel, and everthing. And yes, with munge option for kernel or with mungwall on backgorund its almost all the time give us DEADBEEF or DEADFACE or DEADxxxx , but no stack trace, not any kind of info where this happens , and because of it , all that DEADxxxx and other stuff among with kernlel.debug was not very helpfull.

ps. Tonyw, can you really just say for us, did you finish your work on shell stuff or its still in progress ? Or its already done and in beta-testing for now ? Why we need to get all that info from by tons of the same questions ?:) NDA there for sure mean nothing, if you just can say "yeah its in betatest" , "sorry, not everything done" or "nope, its not done at all, just at begining". Why you in silence and just ignore questions ?:)

And as we already in offtopic, did you yourself agree or not, that current politic of hyperion = loosing of users (who are not beta-testers, i.e. all plain users) , or you think they do everything right ?

Imho answering on that questions not put you in jail :)

Last edited by kas1e on 18-Apr-2011 at 08:09 AM.

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tonyw 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 8:53:59
#952 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3229
From: Sydney (of course)

@kas1e

OK, didn't realise you had been using the debug kernel already. And, I agree, when you get no stack trace, you are back to using printfs to find out how far it's got.

As to the console, it's no secret that it's just like every other OS component. The first version of the updated console went out to the betatesters some time ago, but work continues and it evolves with every release. Betatesters suggest improvements and find bugs, and new features are added, etc. When the management decide to release it, everyone will get a snapshot of the current state (just as with every other OS component). That version will probably be called "complete" until it is updated...

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 9:02:18
#953 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@tonyw
Aha, thanks for answer. Sadly that its still not released through ..

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:14:15
#954 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12343
From: Norway

@tonyw

Thanks for the information, tiny updates like this should be posted on Hyperion blog please

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samo79 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:36:35
#955 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3445
From: Italy, Perugia

@NutsAboutAmiga

Agree

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Deniil715 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 8:56:50
#956 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4226
From: Sweden

@NutsAboutAmiga

Agree.

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> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

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kas1e 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 9:24:51
#957 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3535
From: Russia

@samo79 & all

SVG enabled: acid3 test

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nexus 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 10:50:27
#958 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Feb-2005
Posts: 429
From: Germany

@kas1e

because of your screenshot and just out of curiosity, my question:

Is it possible to freely re-arrange the "controling elements" of MUI-OWB, like "navigation-buttons, url bar, quicklinks, etc"? I just wonder because there's so much space "wasted" next to the navigation buttons and it would be nice, to locate the complete line with the url-bar, google-search, etc. there.
As I said, it's just curiosity -- I don't want to complain

Anyway, good job @ all involved

Thanks,
nexus

Last edited by nexus on 19-Apr-2011 at 10:50 AM.

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Mrodfr 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:06:47
#959 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Posts: 1396
From: French

Hello,

Just one question:

- How fast is this version (when scrolling an internet page with the mouse whell) ?

(like Ibrowse -> instantly, or like Netsurf -> move more slower).

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DAX 
Re: AmigaOS4.1 OWB Development whilst we wait?
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 11:11:22
#960 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@kas1e (and team)
He he getting far getting far, you'll start being pestered with "give us a beta" demands very soon

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