@Niolator

I've read a few of Greene's books. Going by my memory his use of negative gravity was in a discussion involving String Theory. M-Theory is a superset of various combined String Theories. But, if you have the book and section you're referring to I'd be glad to review. Though to date I know of no evidence firmly confirming a negative gravity condition within our universe. It may not exist or it may simply be unobserved at present.

Thanks

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: Nope, you clearly demonstrate you will believe what the mainstream tells you is true and no more, no less, no matter the facts. At present the facts reside on the side that Gravity is 1 of the Four Fundamental forces. We clearly are not evidenced to the State where science says there's only Three Fundamental Forces. It's an important distinction that's lost on you by your acceptance of unproven postulates. Quote: Do you believe in anything that deviates from the norm? Suprise me. Belief is fairly worthless. It in no way establishes validity. Belief is the acceptance of an unproven postulate. I do my best to evidence what I accept. At the same time realize in the future better evidence will happen and I may have to change my view. Which is why I've asked you repeatedly for evidence. And also why I fail to accept your view when you return with unproven postulates, which aren't evidence. I assume by 'norm' you mean that thought which the majority in society assume to be true. In that sense I go against the 'norm' all the time. The majority believe in a Christian God. I reviewed the evidence and find the evidence lacking. So I go against the norm. Similar with Global Warming the evidence supports it even if the American public were late comers and only around 2010-2012 (depends on poll) most people didn't 'believe' in Global Warming. Again the majority of people (about 60%) believe in Wholistic Medicine. When polled they say their medical plans should cover Homeopathy (for example). Again I go against this because again the evidence that homeopathy works is weak to non-existent. Afterall if 'Alternative Medicine' worked it'd be called Medicine. Maybe you're getting at this. I do have beliefs as I, like most people, form an opinion based upon various non-factual sources. However, unlike most I try to find the group of evidences on both sides of the topic and have changed my opinion because of those. A big part of me giving up religion was accepting that evidenced based system is the best way to give us the truist understanding. It's something belief cannot and will not ever do. If you have a belief and you're right it's simply a matter of luck.

What a rebel!

@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @Lou DC Plasma is a car because it's a hobbyist project while the Rimac Concept One is not a car because it's a pre-production prototype? I'm not trying to piss on John Metric's conversion, but you really need to stop equating one 600kW electric conversion with the original production car. And yes, having an inexpensive mid-mount engine chassis to do all sorts of conversions on is very neat, but with electric motors even my '97 S210 wagon could be converted to a mid-mount chassis. I would replace the whole drivetrain with the same type of setup used in the Rimac Concept One. Petrol tank, diff, driving axle, transmission and engine goes out, a pair of electric motors with indepentent gear boxes goes in. Controller, BMS and batteries go in the exhaust/transmission/axle channel. More space for batteries can be found in the engine compartment. No weight whatsoever would be found in front of the front wheels, only the boot is found behind the rear wheels. Not saying an S210 would make a good performance EV, though

I too have mentioned that I can strap together a wooded from, engine, transmission, wheels and a steering rack and break the record. The bottom line is I can be anyone, buy a Fiero, buy off the shelf components and be that fast.

When you have schools with unlimited budgets or corporations with unlimied budgets anything is possible. When I say 'car' I mean a car that exists on the open market. Even car-builder prototypes are sometimes modifications of existiing platforms so modifying an existing platform (Fiero) to be electric is fair game...in fact it's the rule of the game...just as the Nemesis was based off an existing platform...and was still slower than the DC Plasma.

Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 05:53 PM.

@Niolator

Quote:

Niolator wrote: @thread Sorry for interupting your discussion but I found something on negative gravity in a book by Brian Greene . It is obviously accepted among scientists that such thing exist and could be reproduced in vehicles. It resembles negative pressure. Speeder a'la Star Wars here I come! edit: added authors name.

If you look into radiation pressure models for gravity like I have, "negative gravity" is simply done by creating a radiation pressure imbalance. Just as positive and negative "acceleration" just denotes a direction in 1 dimension, negative gravity can be made by generating excessive radiation pressure in the opposite direction of the desired travel direction.

Using the pressure model, gravity takes on a fluid-like behavior as observed by frame-dragging...which frame-dragging has been confirmed (as was the Casimir effect) vs. the GR/Newtownian view of which both authors of those models both deny that they were correct but just generally 'good enough'. In fact Einstein said his biggest mistake was putting in a fixed gravitational constant... Yet you find people in this thread who cling to this flawed knowledge like a religion.

You can also see this alteration of radiation pressure applied to real word rockets and planes just as the US stealth bombers and fighters. However, I will re-itterate that certain individuals here will tell you there is no 'evidence' that this stuff works, and that's the blind and retarded attitudes that I deal with here.

Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 05:56 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 05:53 PM.

@Lou

Repeating a lie etc. Noone said radiation pressure doesn't EXIST, it just doesn't DOMINATE over gravity. In our observable universe.

Yes, given enough photons you can move something out of the solar system, but you don't feel lighter just because the sun went down. So yes, radiation pressure can be used to move things, but it would take a heck of a lot more radiation than you get per unit area from a star. Also, moving CLOSER to a star the radiation pressure goes UP and the gravity ALSO goes UP. Radiation pressure TOWARDS the star hasn't changed, ergo gravity does not follow any sort of function that looks like it's pointed opposite of radiation pressure. So while radiation pressure can CANCEL gravity, it cannot BE gravity.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Lou

Actually, you can't buy off the shelf components and be that fast. He needed custom parts to couple the outputs of the two DC motors together. That's not something you'll find in an EV parts catalogue.

It's a heck of a lot better than the "siamese" system of the White Zombie (two standard stators for one custom rotor), but it still puts it out of the range of "anyone" being able to do it. Anyone who happens to have a professional workshop yes. Or anyone who has access to one. Or anyone who can afford hiring one.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Lou

Quote:

.just as the Nemesis was based off an existing platform...and was still slower than the DC Plasma.

I agree that the Nemesis was slower than DC Plasma. This is because the Nemesis tems claim that it could go faster was unsupported by the evidence.

Despite your attempts to disqualify the others it remains a fact that the Eliica and the Rimac are faster than Metrics attempt. The fact that you cannot afford a particular car, does not mean that it is not a car. A Bugatti Veyron costs $2,400,000 which makes it a bit less affordable than a second hand VW, but they are still cars. It is also a fact that the Eliica and Rimac may go into full production, which Metric is not going to do.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @Lou Repeating a lie etc. Noone said radiation pressure doesn't EXIST, it just doesn't DOMINATE over gravity. In our observable universe. Yes, given enough photons you can move something out of the solar system, but you don't feel lighter just because the sun went down. So yes, radiation pressure can be used to move things, but it would take a heck of a lot more radiation than you get per unit area from a star. Also, moving CLOSER to a star the radiation pressure goes UP and the gravity ALSO goes UP. Radiation pressure TOWARDS the star hasn't changed, ergo gravity does not follow any sort of function that looks like it's pointed opposite of radiation pressure. So while radiation pressure can CANCEL gravity, it cannot BE gravity.

And repeating claims that RP is too low/weak when you don't know the source of RP is a bigger crime. One a nimrod commits often.

Also, if a horse pulls a buggy and a cow pulls a buggy, is one horsepower, while the other cowpower? Force is force no matter the source.

Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 08:17 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 08:14 PM.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @Lou Quote: .just as the Nemesis was based off an existing platform...and was still slower than the DC Plasma. I agree that the Nemesis was slower than DC Plasma. This is because the Nemesis tems claim that it could go faster was unsupported by the evidence.

ZOMG! You admit being wrong!

Quote:

Despite your attempts to disqualify the others it remains a fact that the Eliica and the Rimac are faster than Metrics attempt. The fact that you cannot afford a particular car, does not mean that it is not a car. A Bugatti Veyron costs $2,400,000 which makes it a bit less affordable than a second hand VW, but they are still cars. It is also a fact that the Eliica and Rimac may go into full production, which Metric is not going to do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliica :
"The Eliica (or the Electric Lithium-Ion Car) is a battery electric vehicle prototype or concept car first shown in 2004 and designed by a team at Keio University in Tokyo, led by Professor Hiroshi Shimizu. " - nuff said

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/rimac-automobile/2011-rimac-concept-one-ar114155.html :
"The Concept One is the work of some of the most famous designers around the world. The carbon-fiber body is designed by Adriano Mudri, while the interior is designed by a team of former Pininfarina employees, led by Mr. Goran Popović."
Again, unlimited budget...and still in the "concept" stage. That 88 unit target for production surely makes is a car for all peoples.../fail

@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @Lou Actually, you can't buy off the shelf components and be that fast. He needed custom parts to couple the outputs of the two DC motors together. That's not something you'll find in an EV parts catalogue. It's a heck of a lot better than the "siamese" system of the White Zombie (two standard stators for one custom rotor), but it still puts it out of the range of "anyone" being able to do it. Anyone who happens to have a professional workshop yes. Or anyone who has access to one. Or anyone who can afford hiring one.

Wait! So you assumed that you can stick any engine into any car and not have to do *some* rudimentary fabrication?

@Lou

YOU said you could do it with off-the-shelf components. I'm saying you cannot. A single-motor setup can actually be done with off-the-shelf components and some welding, his setup cannot.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @Lou YOU said you could do it with off-the-shelf components. I'm saying you cannot. A single-motor setup can actually be done with off-the-shelf components and some welding, his setup cannot.

I said that conversion from gas to electric will not drop in without some fabrication. To assume otherwise is asinine.

Apparently, you have to be atleast 12 years old to work on Fieros.

Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 09:41 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 09:14 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 08:58 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 24-Oct-2012 at 08:58 PM.

http://www.ted.com/talks/boaz_almog_levitates_a_superconductor.html?utm_content=ted-androidapp&utm_medium=on.ted.com-android-share&utm_campaign=&awesm=on.ted.com_j1WB&utm_source=alienscientist.com

In the end of the above video, you see a supercoductor being guided along an orbit by magnetic fields...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028073.800-how-to-turn-the-vacuum-into-a-superconductor.html

The vacuum doesn't seem to slow EM(aka light) down, so perhaps it is a superconductor.

US Navy getting laser(direct energy) weapons:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/trending/2012/10/23/u_s_navy_lasers_directed_energy_coming_to_ships_within_two_years.html

@Lou

Quote:

Quote: I agree that the Nemesis was slower than DC Plasma. This is because the Nemesis tems claim that it could go faster was unsupported by the evidence. ZOMG! You admit being wrong!

If you used the contents stored between you ears as something other than ballast and learned to read you would be aware that at no time did I cite the Nemesis as being faster than Metrics home made car. Every time you reiterate that lie you show your own lack of honesty. I say lack of honesty because nobody can be as consistently wrong as you have been by mistake.

Quote:

"The Eliica (or the Electric Lithium-Ion Car) is a battery electric vehicle prototype or concept car first shown in 2004 and designed by a team at Keio University in Tokyo, led by Professor Hiroshi Shimizu. " - nuff said

Just out of curiosity, are you attempting to redefine the Eliica as "not a car" because the builders went to university, or because they are Japanese, and the idea of the Eliica being faster than something a Yank built contravenes some rule about your manifest density.
Quote:

Again, unlimited budget...and still in the "concept" stage. That 88 unit target for production surely makes is a car for all peoples.../fail

So that would be 87 more than Metric will produce, and again just because you cannot afford one doesn't alter the fact that it is a car that goes faster than your pet project.

Quote:

And repeating claims that RP is too low/weak when you don't know the source of RP is a bigger crime

The largest and most powerful source of EM and radiation pressure influencing the Earth is that which is closest. This is because the radiation pressure from further objects is dissipated as a consequence of the inverse square law. The Voyager space probes are only noe reaching the point where the dominant EM and radiation pressure source is no longer the Sun, but the general background level comprising input from other stars, and the vacuum energy or zero point energy.
In order to achieve what the RP fantasists claim the Vacuum energy would need to be in the order of Megajoules per cubic centimetre, not the measured level of 0.6 joules per cubic kilometre. Your entire "Gravity = EM pressure" fantasy is built on an assumption that is clearly, demonstrably, and measurably w r o n g
I will admit that the exact mechanism of how gravity is transmitted is not yet known, but one of the concepts that has clearly been eliminated is the one of EM radiation pressure.

Quote:

In the end of the above video, you see a supercoductor being guided along an orbit by magnetic fields...

Indeed, and when the magnetic field is removed the guidance ends and any object continues in accordance with Newtonian simplicity travelling in a straight line This is totally unlike all of the non superconducting non magnetic planets and moons in the solar system. I would also remind you that in order to drive a system using EM the first occurence would be an alignment of all magnetic fields, yet the solar system has planets with either no magnetic field, or magnetic fields wobbling about like drunken sailors. The observable evidence contradicts your pet fantasy yet again.

Quote:

The vacuum doesn't seem to slow EM(aka light) down, so perhaps it is a superconductor.

Or then again perhaps there is another, simpler explanation that does not require us to make ridiculous claims that can so easily be disproven. The vacuum of space is not a superconductor. This is a known and measured quantity, and once again your fantasies are cut away by Occams razor

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Lou

Quote:

What a rebel!

I guess I have to blame maturity. I realize as cool as science fiction is it is science fact that changes the world. So while my 12 year old Fiero loving self would have found things like anti-gravity in just 7 years as really cool. My real self that deals with technology day in and day out realizes that that prediction made over 10 years ago missed it's mark and is no longer impressive.

Quote:

US Navy getting laser(direct energy) weapons:

In related news China and the middle east buy mirrors

Last edited by BrianK on 25-Oct-2012 at 02:14 AM.

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote: @Lou Quote: ZOMG! You admit being wrong! If you used the contents stored between you ears as something other than ballast and learned to read you would be aware that at no time did I cite the Nemesis as being faster than Metrics home made car. Every time you reiterate that lie you show your own lack of honesty. I say lack of honesty because nobody can be as consistently wrong as you have been by mistake.

And you live up to your username with your constant mathematical faux pas'... I didn't bring up the Nemesis to begin with.

Quote:

Quote: "The Eliica (or the Electric Lithium-Ion Car) is a battery electric vehicle prototype or concept car first shown in 2004 and designed by a team at Keio University in Tokyo, led by Professor Hiroshi Shimizu. " - nuff said Just out of curiosity, are you attempting to redefine the Eliica as "not a car" because the builders went to university, or because they are Japanese, and the idea of the Eliica being faster than something a Yank built contravenes some rule about your manifest density. Quote: Again, unlimited budget...and still in the "concept" stage. That 88 unit target for production surely makes is a car for all peoples.../fail So that would be 87 more than Metric will produce, and again just because you cannot afford one doesn't alter the fact that it is a car that goes faster than your pet project.

Reading comprehension fails you again, I see. A university has [essentially] an unlimited budget. No need to throw ethnicity into the mix.
Actually, almost 400,000 Fieros were made. That's just a hair past 88, I guess...or actually it seems you failed in math again.

Quote:

Quote: And repeating claims that RP is too low/weak when you don't know the source of RP is a bigger crime The largest and most powerful source of EM and radiation pressure influencing the Earth is that which is closest. This is because the radiation pressure from further objects is dissipated as a consequence of the inverse square law. The Voyager space probes are only noe reaching the point where the dominant EM and radiation pressure source is no longer the Sun, but the general background level comprising input from other stars, and the vacuum energy or zero point energy. In order to achieve what the RP fantasists claim the Vacuum energy would need to be in the order of Megajoules per cubic centimetre, not the measured level of 0.6 joules per cubic kilometre. Your entire "Gravity = EM pressure" fantasy is built on an assumption that is clearly, demonstrably, and measurably w r o n g I will admit that the exact mechanism of how gravity is transmitted is not yet known, but one of the concepts that has clearly been eliminated is the one of EM radiation pressure.

Like the Fiero subject, if you don't know what you're talking about, you should just stop talking about it.
You haven't read Brandenburg's book, so you have no basis for touching your fingers to the keyboard.

Quote:

Quote: In the end of the above video, you see a supercoductor being guided along an orbit by magnetic fields... Indeed, and when the magnetic field is removed the guidance ends and any object continues in accordance with Newtonian simplicity travelling in a straight line This is totally unlike all of the non superconducting non magnetic planets and moons in the solar system. I would also remind you that in order to drive a system using EM the first occurence would be an alignment of all magnetic fields, yet the solar system has planets with either no magnetic field, or magnetic fields wobbling about like drunken sailors. The observable evidence contradicts your pet fantasy yet again.

Apparently you forget that the earth does wobble. You forget alot of things actually but I supposed that's old age. You apparently didn't see that the super conducting disc was fixed at a tilt independent of the magnetic field lines. I guess you are going blind too. Let me ask you a question oh rocket scientist among rocket scientists - why can't the inverse be true? Why can't free space be a superconductor and magnets be moved instead?

Quote:

Quote: The vacuum doesn't seem to slow EM(aka light) down, so perhaps it is a superconductor. Or then again perhaps there is another, simpler explanation that does not require us to make ridiculous claims that can so easily be disproven. The vacuum of space is not a superconductor. This is a known and measured quantity, and once again your fantasies are cut away by Occams razor

Please, oh nimrod, can you tell me the resistence of free space? Apparantly, light doesn't have an issue with travelling thru it. Once again your closed-box view of reality limits your feeble thoughts.

@Lou

Quote:

why can't the inverse be true? Why can't free space be a superconductor and magnets be moved instead?

Anything can be true. IS it true - is the question dealt with when we get to evidence and our interactions in the real universe.

I just remembered this famous celebrity that doesn't understand evidence either...
"I know this defies the law of gravity, but I never studied law. — Bugs Bunny"

Last edited by BrianK on 25-Oct-2012 at 02:52 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: why can't the inverse be true? Why can't free space be a superconductor and magnets be moved instead? Anything can be true. IS it true - is the question dealt with when we get to evidence and our interactions in the real universe. I just remembered this famous celebrity that doesn't understand evidence either... "I know this defies the law of gravity, but I never studied law. — Bugs Bunny"

Had he studied law, he would realize there is no law of gravity...

As more and more science fiction becomes science fact...
DARPA is looking to make mechs...