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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 12:37:58
#1281 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@amigadave: You are correct (see my post above)

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fishy_fis 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 13:04:36
#1282 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1905
From: Australia

@K-L

Oh boy.
You're not the sharpest tool in the drawer are you?
I asked a simple question.
One that you yourself said you know nothing about.

Yet because I dont know Im a troll? When you dont know however things are differnt somehow?
And I actually *do* know about HDR, the subject I made an enquiry about.

Also,... Ive been an OS4 user for many years as well.... I simply voice discontent when there's something Im unhappy with.

You're either paranoid, lack the ability to perceive correctly, or incapable of taking off blinkers when people are "mean to your precious....".
It's more than a little pathetic.
Grow up boy.
Some people have different ideas. It's life. You need to get over it.

/queue ignorant response.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 13:21:06
#1283 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@AP

The ONLY exciting Tabor reveal in the run to the Early Adopters scheme was a video of a Tabor playing two HD videos in windows. When people on AmigaWorld looked closely we could see they were 4k videos but not filling the whole screen! It would have been nice to see one video at full screen confirmed to be displaying at 4k to be honest.

No explanation has been given as official marketing material from A-EON on performance or real world features as it's all been drip feed explanations from Beta Testers and forum members. We are STILL none the wiser on the progress of the sound driver despite Trevor plugging Amiga magazines that claimed to give an update!

The 4k angle HAS been touted as a selling point because they've not shown much else. It's most likely not very impressive to show off currently other than the fancy graphics card drivers as there still isn't any sound output to fully demonstrate multimedia software!

Quote:
The main-selling point for Tabor was and is having an AOS4-system with decent power for a good price.


For those of us that are no longer impressed by having to 'snapshot' drawers and 'update all' as a major selling point for our computers, the selling point will be the ability to use great Amiga software in a native Amiga desktop environment sure. Currently we are still waiting for updated versions of ImageFX and OctaMED. In the case of ImageFX we are told that if we don't buy the Classic 'Miggy version there won't be a PPC native version! We are told to give our money up front for the chance to get the new software / hardware that WILL be a selling point eventually!!!!

We really haven't moved that far from the AmigaOne Eyetech experiment of selling the hardware prior to the OS being complete IMHO! Will we be able to buy the Tabor version of Wings Remastered when this machine is finally launched? Is the machine compatible with Deluxe Paint 5 including the animation features? All these questions that should be obvious but aren't right now. I'd also like to be able to try out Payback (is it still for sale) and Wipeout 2097 (I could Hoover a copy from eBay probably) as well as use PageStream (they would sell me and old stable version I'm sure) and TurboPrint (stuck on version 7 but still useful) but I really have no idea if these will work on the Tabor because these software products aren't updated any more!

I'm REALLY trying to be excited but I'm not just going to buy it as a kind of Xerox PARC 'proof of concept' as it has to be fun and of practical use to me beyond being able to run AOS4 with decent power for a good price.

Last edited by BigD on 23-Apr-2020 at 01:23 PM.

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 13:52:33
#1284 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD: Your impression of the "selling point" is wrong, especially the new drivers and emotion will be available fo ALLL suitable AOS4-systems.
There were various presentations touring Amiga shows on Tabor with games, OpenOffice Beta etc. There are even videos on youtube about this.

If 4k is the most important thing for you, than buy your PS5 or whatever.

Tabor is what it is: An AOS4-system, ergo a niche-computer-system with all his flaws. If you want a mainstream-system, go for it. If you want to use AOS4: Buy an AOS4-sytem. It's really simple.

Last edited by AP on 23-Apr-2020 at 01:53 PM.

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Trixie 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 14:01:13
#1285 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1948
From: Czech Republic

@BigD

Quote:
Currently we are still waiting for updated versions of ImageFX and OctaMED.

No one is working on OctaMED, and no one will. A-EON has made a costly mistake in buying the almost-quarter-a-century-old piece of software without a proper code review. The effort required to modernize the program is enormous, involving thousands of man-hours A-EON would have to pay for on top of the source code purchase. Considering the number of active Amiga musicians, and the existence of available alternatives (DigiBooster 3, MilkyTracker, and Protrekkr), such an investment does not make any sense whatsoever. Forget OctaMED please.

Quote:
Is the machine compatible with Deluxe Paint 5 including the animation features?

You cannot be seriously asking this.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 14:49:00
#1286 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@Trixie

Quote:
You cannot be seriously asking this.


Of course I'm serious as I still enjoy using it! Has there been suitable develoment of Personal Paint to include ALL the animation features taken for granted in DP5? No is the answer. No light table etc and not really suited for animation in the same way.

Unless it's actually superceeded and feature matched I'll still use it! Why shouldn't we strive to make backwards compatibility work with DP5? It might be something old Amigans remember and bring them joy when rediscovering it!

Again if you're not using NG Amigas for the likes of PageStream, TurboPrint, Lightwave, ImageFX and Bars and Pipes and are instead using Blender, Hollywood and Odyssey then why not just use Linux? Oh yeah, it's because of the unique way that you have to hunt for files without icons, clean up folders and snapshot them so that you don't have to go through the arduous process next time; killer app in the form of arduous windowed GUI mangement! Phew where do I sign to get rid of the £400+ burning a hole in my pocket?

... and on that subject is Directory Opus still available? Or for that matter Professional File System? Much as I like timing how long the FFS system takes to revalidify my hard drives after a crash!

Last edited by BigD on 23-Apr-2020 at 02:54 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 14:54:05
#1287 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@Thread

And yes I still like using Amiga programs to this day and used TurboPrint's Graphics Publisher to print a multi part A2 poster from A4 constituent poster sections only last week!

It's the software that made the Amiga great though the OS was part of the experience IMHO.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 15:02:46
#1288 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11415
From: Norway

@Trixie

They might recover the investment if they sell the source code to the community.

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K-L 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 15:59:33
#1289 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1376
From: Oullins, France

@BigD

Quote:
Again if you're not using NG Amigas for the likes of PageStream, TurboPrint, Lightwave, ImageFX and Bars and Pipes...


I've got the utimate solution for you : LINK

This is the system you want to have to use these programs a their full potential.

@fishy_eyes

Well, whatever...

Edit: typos

Last edited by K-L on 23-Apr-2020 at 04:00 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 16:05:18
#1290 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@K-L

Quote:
This is the system you want to have to use these programs a their full potential.


Great a Vampire that is only one order of magnitude faster than my 060, ok I might consider a V1200 if I inherit my friend's old A1200. What 'software' is the Tabor required to use at its full potential then?

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 17:00:14
#1291 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD: >What 'software' is the Tabor required to use at its full potential then?

There are enough sources to discover AOS4 and its software in the internet, Google is your friend, the official AmigaOS4-site could be a start.

Regarding software (in short): Of course "classic" software which uses the Amiga chipset is not working on AmigaOS4 systems like Tabor (they work under emulation although).

Other 68k classic software still works fine under AmigaOS4 (ImageFX 4.5 Studio, ArtEffect, PageStream e.g.). And there is of course a lot of native AOS4-software (you can even use GIMP or AbiWord with AmiCygnix). But as I said: With a little research in the internet you would know this.

BTW: It's not my (or) our job to convince you to buy Tabor (nor is it my intention). You are the one, who is pretending to buy such a system again and again.

I know why I want a Tabor, but everyone has its own reasons. If there are not enough reasons for you to buy an AOS4-system, just don't buy it.

Edit: Typos

Last edited by AP on 23-Apr-2020 at 05:18 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 17:32:04
#1292 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@AP

Quote:
But as I said: With a little research in the internet you would know this.

BTW: It's not my (or) our job to convince you to buy Tabor (nor it is my intention). You are the one, who is pretending to buy such a system again and again


Yeah well pretend I owned an Amiga 1200 in 1992 and haven't used it since Team17 threw in the towel in 1997. Should I have to trawl the web in order to see what the point of the Tabor is or should A-EON's website be enough?

If I was not put off by the name then I may wish to try Deluxe Paint or even Worms (because I remember them being fun) before trying out ImageFX which I can now buy and download yay!

Would all this initial tinkering justify the £400+ investment or would the seemingly expected days and weeks of research bring the customer to that point? Is there an out of the box programming environment for the returning user to tinker with? Is there any bundled software? Is it in a nice case? None of this is obvious and we're 7 years into the Tabor development!

Just posing the question and I know everyone just expects the late 30 year olds and above who never gave up to keep sustaining things with no returning Amigans from the 90s required but it's a fallacy.

It's not your place to sell me the Tabor it's A-EON's but they don't seem to have a marketing department unless you count the backroom of AmigaKit's local shoe shop in Cardiff where they got the glossy Early Adopter Bundle Premium Display Boxes!

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 17:56:45
#1293 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD: I am afraid your expectations are too high. As I said before: We are talking about a tiny, obscure niche-market with tiny companies.

And of course you need to do a little research for yourself. AOS4 is around since mid-2000. Tabor is just another AOS4-system, there were many others in the meantime. As I said: the official AOS4-site could be a good start (even if it's not fully up-to-date).

It's not about Tabor, you have to find out, if AOS4 is suitable for you in general.

I know AOS4 already, owned different AOS4-systems in the past and Tabor will be the first new AOS4-system since a longer time-period (and my comeback as AOS4-user). As I said: The main selling point is an AOS4-system with decent power for a good price. If that isn't enough for you, don't buy it.

And the other questions about case etc.: We will see after the first Early Adopter production-run.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 18:13:28
#1294 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@AP

OS4 is nice bonus but the Amiga 'feeling' is about the integration of hardware and software, the 'fun' and 'responsive' nature and great intuitive software and fun arcady games!

This has to be communicated and marketed as a unique system to take its place even in the hobbiest marketplace.

YOUR expectations are too small in regards to what has to be achieved for this to continue to be sustainable!

Last edited by BigD on 23-Apr-2020 at 06:22 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 23-Apr-2020 at 06:19 PM.

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outrun1978 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 19:01:31
#1295 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 577
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
OS4 is nice bonus but the Amiga 'feeling' is about the integration of hardware and software, the 'fun' and 'responsive' nature and great intuitive software and fun arcady games!


Don't get me wrong I like my X5000, I think its pretty cool that I can use it for playing a host of classic and Next Gen Amiga games, run a lot of emulators up to Sony Playstation level and also go on the internet and watch a bit of YouTube, but look what we are competing with here:

Raspberry Pi 4- Dirt cheap, £50 total outlay, similar performance, better Internet web browsing, a plethora of useful other alternative OS systems to run on

A PC - £250 spent on a new AMD A6 PC from Argos not only saved me from being furloughed at work, but also opened up a much better world of emulation with Retroarch, Steam PC gaming, Xbox One Integration, fantastic Microsoft Edge and Google Chrome web browsers that handle anything and everything I throw at it. Nintendo 64 emulation is perfect and I really recommend Launch and BigBox which is sorely missing on the Amiga Platform as is Retroarch

The only thing the X5000 has going for it is the fact it runs a heck of a lot quicker than an emulated OS4.1 set up under emulation and the classic Amiga integration works well. As an OS I quite appreciate just how quick it is to use in comparison to say Linux or Windows and also just how logical and easy it is to find files.

As nice as Tabor is, and I have played with one, we have to be honest and acknowledge the PC and Raspberry Pi 4 will be the cheaper and far more attractive options.

The AmigaNG platform whilst being a miracle in its own appearance and execution, is missing a lot of things that you take for granted on a PC or Raspberry Pi, like Bluetooth, access to VPN, the ability to watch BBC Iplayer, Netflix etc.... It's not even a hobbyist or cottage industry platform as described by others because even that too has more active users.

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 19:12:23
#1296 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD:
>YOUR expectations are too small in regards to what has to be achieved for this to continue to be >sustainable!

I don't think so. I have a realistic view and know from my expirience what to expect (and I like it by the way, despite all disadvantages).

Sorry to say that: Your expectations are based on too less information and knowledge (for example your question, if DP5 is fully working...) and some wishful thinking. We are not in the 90ies anymore, where Amiga still had its“ market although the glory days where gone. So my advice again: Do a little research about AmgaOS4 and its history.

Sure marketing could be better, but that's an other issue. AOS4 isn't ready for mainstream, it's for die-hard-fans at the moment (people, who have fun to tinker around and enjoy to still use AmigaOS against all odds). Maybe this will change in the future, but for now the best marketing couldn't change this.



Last edited by AP on 23-Apr-2020 at 07:14 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 19:13:02
#1297 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@outrun1978

So the question has to be asked are we just paying an 'Amiga Tax' for the privilege of booting up a modern incarnation of AmigaOS?

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 19:19:24
#1298 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@outrun1978

So the question has to be asked are we just paying an 'Amiga Tax' for the privilege of booting up a modern incarnation of AmigaOS?


No, but there are other circumstances in a mainstream-market with mass-production, money and manpower and the current Amiga-"market" (tiny and obscure niche-market , "handmade" PPC-boards in low quantities etc.). Look at the Amiga-history, it went not that well...

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 19:20:36
#1299 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@AP

Do you foresee a similarly priced low end AmigaOS machine within 7 years of the Tabor? No, it is doubtful therefore it NEEDS to make a splash to sustain the ecosystem. That is true whether you think that's delusion or not to think it's possible.

The AmigaOS saga has continued despite the odds but in all honesty I think once Trevor is fed up or too old for the stress this particular strategy of JUST pandering to the crinkley die hards will fall away whatever you think out of necessity. Not everyone made it rich in the oil industry - FACT!

Last edited by BigD on 23-Apr-2020 at 07:21 PM.

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outrun1978 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 19:22:23
#1300 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 577
From: Unknown

@BigD

You are not paying an Amiga Tax perse, but by purchasing real AmigaOS 4 compatible hardware, you are subsidizing and contributing to the community development costs,Its important to go into this with your eyes wide open.

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