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cdimauro 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 12-Oct-2014 21:12:18
#201 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3110
From: Germany

Synthetic benchmarks aren't useful, by default. Running under emulation they are less than useful (read: misleading).

As I've already suggested, it's better to use real applications.

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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 12-Oct-2014 23:31:16
#202 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlsom
To make a useful benchmark with an emulated Windows system you have to run:

1) 3DMark 2000/2001SE
2) Quake software in 1280x1024
3) GLQuake in 1280x1024
4) Quake 2 in 1280x1024
5) Quake Arena in 1280x1024
6) Doom 3 at least in 102x768 with maximun texture and detail
7) Blender
8) Try a video in HD 720 or 1920 to see how %cpu it require

If you haven't 3D acceleration run these one in software mode



Last edited by Seiya on 12-Oct-2014 at 11:33 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 13-Oct-2014 6:26:41
#203 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

the big parts how the bench you write are not useless with virtualpc it is really terrible for the
graphic system it have a really bottlenech.. check the results of crystal bench .
video refresh is terrible there is better on qemu and superb in guestpc but overall performance in this two last system are not good for run windows xp... qemu need about 3h for installxp virtualpc need 20min.
in virtual pc i can only say for sure im capable to play divx 720p (all cpu rendered)
and windows xp sp3 need seconds to load.


The big problem of emulating new os is : From windows xp s3 more from the lastest
the os using compositing gpu ecelleration for render the gui ...
The emulated gpu of virtualpc is Dx3 compliant. On Dx3 to 5 i can have d3d video in software rendering and AGP acceleration tramas

the results of crystal bench are similar to ssadra benchmark.
probably the best benchmark will be test mplayer encoding time or another one that using cpu integer only.
Will try cinebench but for sure it use Fpu for rendering but will see

doom gave me 150 to 130 realitics in virtualpc
98 in realpc ... softwindows not calcolable
the best of the best is softwindows 98 but it run in sheepshaver and doom and quake are ultrafast but the fps are totally not calcolalable

This is a video made with softwindows98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3j-5i1GO3g&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ
Note Realitics are more than 20.000 but is 2x more faster compared Realpc realitics 98
check all the video the dos programs run ultra speedy ...
Need For Speed time counter Minute run like seconds
same is for dosbenchs :P


note about video playback: My tests with real hadware a p4 2.4ghz was totally unable to play mkv fullhd 1080p and youtube video with a Radeon 9200se agp i was able to play 360p youtube video only ... after switching the video board with 7750 hd pcie->pci adaptor the machine thanks to the video board play great video and youtube video.
Gpu made really mutch the difference expecially with complete drivers
check here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEsKZzi9sQ&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ


Edit: I had been made a simple calculation
if i take the value of X86 Mac more near to a single G5 core performance from geek bench
In my case Intel Core2 Duo P7500 @ 1.60GHz
http://www.primatelabs.com/blog/2008/06/mac-performance-june-2008/

And make a comparison with the cpu result on VirtualPC (P4 2.8 ghz?) integer
i have this
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=969&cmp[]=1072

Because the good esperience performances that i have probably CrystalMark And Sysoft sandra dont fail too much.


Sys Sandra results
 photo g5sandra_zps9776d79b.jpg

Last edited by tlosm on 13-Oct-2014 at 09:43 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Oct-2014 at 09:41 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Oct-2014 at 08:20 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Oct-2014 at 07:57 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Oct-2014 at 07:53 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Oct-2014 at 07:51 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Oct-2014 at 07:50 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 13-Oct-2014 at 07:49 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 14-Oct-2014 20:53:05
#204 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3110
From: Germany

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@Seiya

the big parts how the bench you write are not useless with virtualpc it is really terrible for the
graphic system it have a really bottlenech.. check the results of crystal bench .

Crystal bench is not playable like the games that Seiya suggested to test.

"Emulation: (is) a passion" if you use emulators to do something concrete, and not just to run synthetic benchmarks which have absolutely no value for a people which likes to retro-game or retro-compute.

I already suggested to use real applications for this reason. mplayer is also a good candidate to test the raw power of the CPU. MAME can be another good candidate. And so on...

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 14-Oct-2014 23:33:09
#205 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@cdimauro

Cdimauro if you know something about "emulation" you will be know there is a really big difference by emulation and vitualization.
Doom3, doom2 using 3d video acceleration for made their job.
Blender can be a good candidate i hope will work on not SS2 and up cpu.

Question where is your "emualtion passion?" why you are posting here ? what you can show us made by you for this thread ?

PS: i had been write before 98 realitics softwindows98 on Doom 1 it is a real and 150 to 130 on Virtual pc is it a real application?
Dont worry soon i will made a new video with Emulation in Emulation made by the horrible PPC cpu ... architecture like usual that you are blaming but never had in your hand.

Last edited by tlosm on 14-Oct-2014 at 11:34 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 2:21:58
#206 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

some my passions in these days
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=341778209326630
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=346498752187909

Last edited by Seiya on 15-Oct-2014 at 02:23 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 6:17:20
#207 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3110
From: Germany

@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote:
@cdimauro

Cdimauro if you know something about "emulation" you will be know there is a really big difference by emulation and vitualization.

How do you classify VirtualPC for your G5?
Quote:
Question where is your "emualtion passion?"

It happens when I run WinUAE, VICE, SNES9x, etc.
Quote:
why you are posting here ?

Because I have something to say about the argument. See the previous posts.
Quote:
what you can show us made by you for this thread ?

Nothing: I don't like to create videos. When I use an emulator, I enjoy playing with it.
Quote:
PS: i had been write before 98 realitics softwindows98 on Doom 1 it is a real and 150 to 130 on Virtual pc is it a real application?

Yes it's. I appreciate, in fact.
Quote:
Dont worry soon i will made a new video with Emulation in Emulation made by the horrible PPC cpu ... architecture like usual that you are blaming but never had in your hand.

Again, you're putting here your frustration. Keep calm and continue with the thread, please.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 6:18:17
#208 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

yesterday i was doing the same fba ;)
but i was play the games on virtualpc :p
all game i had been tested are running great, i have to disable only the d3d and put all in sofware mode because no accelerations but the sammuray sh. 4 and street fighter 3 and alfa run wonderful

@cdimauro

you can start see this video if you are courius to the performances of virtual pc


http://youtu.be/wTJZ0mb5X68?list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDn2Au3IGOo&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI5RjoLHHU4&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imEJZ18p0u8&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ


If you curious to see how run Aros in Qemu x86 not virtualized but totally emulated


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQ4MEOpdjY&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqZJ0WL-cLI&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ


if you courious of softwindows98 performaces:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3j-5i1GO3g&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ

Today i will upload a new shokking video Fba in Virtual pc

Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 08:55 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 08:53 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 08:53 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 08:49 AM.

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 10:52:24
#209 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

But if you want to play to MAME, do you load Virtual PC, then Windows and then MAME?
It's more easy to use native MAME on OSX.

It seems that you want to show only how G5 is able to emulate two or more platform in the same time to reach the same goal: play a game that you could play with mame or other emulator in OSX.

This is interesting in a benchmark in emulated or more emulated environment or to compare emulation power between x86 and PowerPC.








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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 12:19:39
#210 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

Mame i play on MacOSx i have the 0.154 installed and run great if we dont consider the 3D games osx crash totally with this because the porting is made fast from 0.154 OsX lion and Gfx 3d drivers from Lion change totally in macos x (nvidia cuda and catalysts was not released for 10.5 leopard )

Fba is not ported right now for osx ppc and it is for now the good solution for heve it running.

Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 12:20 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 13:41:28
#211 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

ok, if OSX haven't your prefered software, the only alternative is virtual pc or qemu

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 15:41:24
#212 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

yes :( the only way for use the 3d games Mame i have to turn on my X86 macs... :( :(
On the G5 for example i start Daytona Usa look like working good in the beginning before green light ...after Osx crash and i have to reset the machine ... mame is the only software made my G5 crash
All 2d games working great absolutly no problem...
miss too much the dolphin emulator and nulldc emulator :(

Qemu is too slow for gave me the opportunity for have mame good working i think ... if only it use integer and not fpu in mame probably something will be playable ... i will test it.
(Fpu in qemu is terrible Quake 320x200 7.5 fps vs 98 fps on vitualpc double on softwindows98 on euae not jit are 15 fps )

Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 03:47 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 03:45 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 03:42 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 15-Oct-2014 at 03:41 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 17:42:13
#213 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

however better use always jit in any emulation if you can..( amiga games not require jit to play at maximun frame rate a part 3D games)

Last edited by Seiya on 15-Oct-2014 at 05:43 PM.
Last edited by Seiya on 15-Oct-2014 at 05:42 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 18:14:50
#214 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

i know jit is better :P euae have only integer part in jit fpu is interpretative not jit
Quake or jit or not pratically have the same performances couple of frames more

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 19:39:16
#215 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

however, you cal always use x86 mac to emulate any kind of platform and play games without problems.

Last edited by Seiya on 15-Oct-2014 at 07:39 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 15-Oct-2014 20:46:41
#216 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

yes i know :) but is simple ... i prefer try the G5 do the best and try to find its limits ;)

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 16-Oct-2014 7:44:58
#217 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

Here is FBA on VirtualPC on Quad G5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoocnYJTGSE

Note: ScreenFlow the program who made screen grabbing took much cpu cicles and did the emulation of vpc and fba slow down too much ... from the mittle of the movie i made the video recording from my phone and you can understand the performances


Here is the Booting of VirtualPC of Windows XP Sp3 with all the updates for it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AzFCS0JeM4 .

Not bad for a totally emulated x86 machine what do you think the Sandra and Crystal bench say the true about it performances?

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 16-Oct-2014 9:33:37
#218 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

yes, but with emulated Windows PX you can try to test some more complex test like photoshop or a 3D engine in software mode.



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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 16-Oct-2014 10:09:31
#219 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2735
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

Im testing what i find working ;)
example from 290 uae dont work any more on virtual pc probably it need SSE2 and up operations

Virtual PC is only ACPI, MMX SSE, emulated x86 and limited to 512mb of ram.
i can say for sure on 2d and 3d is much much more faster on windows 2000 ... there the 3d windows screensaver run 3x fastest than normal the driver for it was made by connectix before was taken by microsoft.

3d engine ? i had been try games and Halflife or Homeworld run great at 1024x760 super smooth at 800x600 same as Gorky 17 , Alien VS Predator and Sin but the Id engine from Quake 2 seems have NOT a good compatibility wiht the fpu of Vpc ... the audio and the video go desincronized but runnning smooth.
There isnt too much software using not hardware rendering from directx 8 up everything change all games need Zbuffer and the directx software dont have it .

Photoshop? will check in any way in iteger is really powerful compared the fpu and the strange is the G5 have a really great fpu compared with integer.

 photo 10333368_10202133178192543_7405055991703234317_o_zps267dc6a0.jpg


Softwindows98 and Realpc have the best x86 emulation for performance and better Vesa2 video emulation... but are really old and if i install windows 98 for example i dont have to install the video driver there because have problems with Sheepshaver and Classic of tiger.
this are really impressive in dosmode quake 1280x1024 software rendering softwindows gave about(couple of frames up or down) 35fps in Real are about 52(couple of frames up or down) in VirtualPc with Windows 95 emulated cpu i have more than 67 at 640xe480
and some time 101 and some times 98 on 320x200

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3j-5i1GO3g check here to this video at minute 2:50 ...
note time demo dont work become creazy ... i made video compare with timedemo with my other machine for understand how much can be the fps


Will make the test try to install xp there hope it will be installed ..
Aros cant because there isnt the opportunity to mount a cd in sheepshaver will try in some other way... if possible.


Last edited by tlosm on 16-Oct-2014 at 10:58 AM.
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Last edited by tlosm on 16-Oct-2014 at 10:52 AM.
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Last edited by tlosm on 16-Oct-2014 at 10:14 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 16-Oct-2014 at 10:11 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 16-Oct-2014 at 10:10 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 16-Oct-2014 14:42:17
#220 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

try WinQuake in Windows XP and benchmark it at any resolution.
Try Quake 2 software mode in any resolution
Try Lame to encode MP3

I think Virtual PC has the best x86 emulation than softwindows or other..

Last edited by Seiya on 16-Oct-2014 at 02:48 PM.
Last edited by Seiya on 16-Oct-2014 at 02:48 PM.

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