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virgolamobile 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Aug-2014 13:39:47
#201 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2004
Posts: 178
From: Somewhere in Northern Italy

As far as I know FS-UAE is the counterpart of WinUAE for non-Windows PCs.
In the FS-UAE page it is stated that it can be compiled also for OSX for PowerPC, maybe also for Linux PowerPC.

If that is true, and FS-UAE will have (or already have, I don't know) PowerPC support as well, what about an FS-UAE that runs natively PowerPC AmigaOS on old Apple hardware?

That would make running AmigaOS 4.x at much greater speed on inexpensive hardware and without the need for a over complicated JIT or QEMU CPU emulation layer.
Usable OS4 on a laptop one step closer!

Last edited by virgolamobile on 21-Aug-2014 at 01:58 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Aug-2014 15:31:52
#202 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9110
From: Unknown

@virgolamobile

Quote:
PowerPC support as well, what about an FS-UAE that runs natively PowerPC AmigaOS on old Apple hardware?


If FS-UAE uses plain PowerPC emulation from WinUAE (eg. QEMU CPU core), then it will be emulated also on PowerPC (1/20 of native performance). I think only QEMU user space emulation allows some kind of virtualisation (eg. runing x86 Linux apps on PowerPC Linux).

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fishy_fis 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Aug-2014 16:46:46
#203 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1899
From: Australia

@virgolamobile

It doesnt/cant work that way for similar reasons why 68k UAE doesnt use the host cpu on 68k Amigas. Amongst other reasons chipset emulation is timing critical. Using host cpu breaks this timing, , not to mention register usage.

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Aug-2014 16:54:46
#204 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@fishy_fis

When emulating PPC instruction timing does not matter. However, it still is not possible use host CPU for PPC code execution for other reasons.

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terminills 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Aug-2014 16:55:35
#205 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

According to Toni the chipset timing is not critical for powerpc. So maybe if someone wants to implement the required hypervisor layer it could be possible.

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terminills 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Aug-2014 16:56:49
#206 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@itix

I would have thought it would have been possible by borrowing parts of kvm?

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 21-Aug-2014 18:17:36
#207 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@terminills

What is KVM? Oh, found it from Google. I am so out when it comes to modern Linux computing...

Now when you say that it could be possible use host CPU if you write hypervisor emulation layer. But Linux on PPC desktop is dead and developers are practically gone. I doubt anyone have enough interest to write hypervisor layer for UAE at this day...

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terminills 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 22-Aug-2014 0:36:40
#208 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@itix

Qemu already has it. It's just a matter of if it's worth the hassle.

http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/PowerPC_Run

The biggest issue is name a processor that supports it.

http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/PowerPC has to be ver 2.06 or higher of the Power ISA

Last edited by terminills on 22-Aug-2014 at 12:39 AM.

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virgolamobile 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 22-Aug-2014 9:18:31
#209 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2004
Posts: 178
From: Somewhere in Northern Italy

@fishy_fis
Quote:
It doesnt/cant work that way for similar reasons why 68k UAE doesnt use the host cpu on 68k Amigas

Well, 15 years ago they didn't think that way.
What about ShapeShifter?
It was able tu run 68k MacOS apps at full speed, w/o KVM & Co.

Last edited by virgolamobile on 22-Aug-2014 at 09:20 AM.

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tlosm 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 22-Aug-2014 9:41:14
#210 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2701
From: Amiga land

@itix

Quote:
But Linux on PPC desktop is dead and developers are practically gone.


You are kidding mate ... i have 1000 email in 1 months on the LinuxPPC kernel developers and Lubuntu/debian PPC list ... Every day they are upgrading and fixing the new kernels and distros for the old (apple) and new ppc machine (freescale/Ibm/Amcc ) plus working on Aeon machine too.

Just an example of the new unofficial (it is taking the road for become the standard )PPC64 kernel

https://wiki.debian.org/ppc64el/

Last edited by tlosm on 22-Aug-2014 at 09:55 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 22-Aug-2014 at 09:54 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 22-Aug-2014 at 09:42 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 22-Aug-2014 at 09:41 AM.

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 22-Aug-2014 10:53:40
#211 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@tlosm

I said PPC desktop. In embedded computing Linux PPC is still alive.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 22-Aug-2014 11:11:29
#212 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9110
From: Unknown

@virgolamobile

Quote:
Well, 15 years ago they didn't think that way.


There is similar PowerPC on PowerPC emulation (SheepShaver), but it doesn´t support MMU (required by OS4).

You can use technology available right now (PearPC, QEMU) with all its limitations, or write new emulator yourself.

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cdimauro 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 22-Aug-2014 21:03:07
#213 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote:
@virgolamobile

It doesnt/cant work that way for similar reasons why 68k UAE doesnt use the host cpu on 68k Amigas. Amongst other reasons chipset emulation is timing critical. Using host cpu breaks this timing, , not to mention register usage.

The emulated PowerPC processor runs on a separated thread (core), and the timing isn't important.

There MIGHT be some contraint regarding the access to the Amiga memory (and chipset), but it's unlikely.

So, IMO there's the chance that the PowerPC processor emulation can be done at full speed, without caring about timings and so all. Maybe another core can be used to analyze and optimize the code generated the first time by the JIT. There are many possibilities to optimize the execution of the PowerPC code, but of course it requires time to be invested.

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number6 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 24-Aug-2014 16:04:53
#214 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10852
From: In the village

@thread

Interesting mention:

http://news.wintricks.it/web/dal-web/39961/winuae-approda-su-ppc/

#6




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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 10-Sep-2014 19:49:07
#215 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9110
From: Unknown

Beta 15 with support for QEMU CPU core

My benchmarks:

SysSpeed:
MIPS 22377.89 (probably not real result...)
MFLOPS 99.51


dnetc
OGR-NG 4,781,409 nodes/sec
RC5-72 3,217,149 keys/sec


Well done!

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retro 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 10-Sep-2014 22:02:43
#216 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 1035
From: Unknown

@pavlor

is that good og bad sysspeed. can u explan in normal words how fast it is compard to lets say an sam 460 or an amiga ones

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tlosm 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 10-Sep-2014 23:02:06
#217 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2701
From: Amiga land

@pavlor run a timedemo with quake in 640x480 in software mode there are many porting for wos and ppc.library i can say the result compared with sam 440,460 ,xe,pegasos2 and some cybererstorm ppc

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 11-Sep-2014 1:37:44
#218 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11368
From: Norway

@tlosm

Well what people are saying is that is around as fast as 200mhz Cyberstorm PPC.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=75062

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tlosm 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 11-Sep-2014 6:07:09
#219 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2701
From: Amiga land

Quote:
QuakePPC (QuakeWOS) runs at a much more playable rate. Timedemo demo2 reports 13.9 fps for me (320x240 8bit). was 2-3 fps before with broken gfx.



compare with this:
i dont know that user configuration but is a point for start m
the uae emulation is better compare with a classic amiga with rtg card


http://amiga.ikirsector.it/forum/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=17576

Last edited by tlosm on 11-Sep-2014 at 06:08 AM.

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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cdimauro 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 11-Sep-2014 9:07:05
#220 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2096
From: Germany

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
Beta 15 with support for QEMU CPU core

My benchmarks:

SysSpeed:
MIPS 22377.89 (probably not real result...)

Yup. Too big.

Quote:
MFLOPS 99.51

On the contrary, that's strange: too little. Maybe the FPU JIT isn't working properly.

Quote:
dnetc
OGR-NG 4,781,409 nodes/sec
RC5-72 3,217,149 keys/sec

Well done!

Absolutely. Taking your previous post ( http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=39254&forum=2&start=160&viewmode=flat&order=0#739150 ) as reference for some machines / data, with the new results that you got, we have this now:

OGR-NG 4,781,409 nodes/sec -> 440EP 497 MHz; 750 443 MHz; 750GX 427 MHz
RC5-72 3,217,149 keys/sec -> 440EP 1023 MHz; 750 1026 MHz; 750GX 951 MHz

Which is... impressive!

I think you're using a 32-bit version of WinUAE, and also a 32-bit version of QEMU. It means that a future 64-bit version of both will improve a lot the results.

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