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      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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PosterThread
Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 15-Aug-2019 20:51:32
#1881 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1604
From: Norway

Here is a video of playing Diablo on A600 with Vampire V2;

http://www.apollo-core.com/gfx/diablo.mp4

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=3Če=21833&x=1&z=iILMN-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IY1Lj0xrFA

Last edited by Overflow on 17-Aug-2019 at 06:37 AM.

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ErikBauer 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 15-Aug-2019 23:15:02
#1882 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-Feb-2004
Posts: 1122
From: Italy

@Overflow

Beat me to that, was just going to post it.
Great to see Diablo engine porting doing so well in so little time :)

_________________
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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 16-Aug-2019 6:53:30
#1883 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1315
From: Trondheim, Norway

@bennymee

I'm surprised that there's no a600 060 card running at 66MHz, such a beast should be named A666 :)

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edponpon 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 16-Aug-2019 7:17:41
#1884 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2007
Posts: 303
From: USA, The World Police

Still eagerly awaiting the A1200 version.

Ed


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8GB CF With tons of Classics

AmigaOne X5000

"That which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger" - Someone important, but I forgot who

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pixie 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 16-Aug-2019 10:08:05
#1885 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2657
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@kolla

Quote:
I'm surprised that there's no a600 060 card running at 66MHz, such a beast should be named A666 :)


spot on! xD

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

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nikosidis 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 16-Aug-2019 14:55:13
#1886 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Dec-2008
Posts: 899
From: Norway, Oslo

@kolla

That was a good one :9 666 the number of the beast.

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outlawal2 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 16-Aug-2019 19:15:33
#1887 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2010
Posts: 66
From: Unknown

@kolla

Yep that was a winner Kolla..

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fishy_fis 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Aug-2019 12:35:37
#1888 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1851
From: Australia

@bhabbott

"Can a PC fit inside an A600 case?"
Yes, there's lots of powerful minit itx and smaller form factor pcs.
"Can it read my Amiga floppy disks, display on my 1084, work with my Amiga mouse, joystick, external floppy drive?"
Yes. There's a plethora of hardware available to give these options
"Can UAE on a PC access the parallel port to control my EPROM programmer or a C64 disk drive etc.?"
Yes.
"Can I turn on a PC and have UAE up and running in less than 6 seconds, while showing that lovely Vampire boot pic?"
Yes, although I doubt anyone running a system that emulates 680x0 code that fast would want to be associatedwith a Vampire. There's lots of quickbooting pcs these days. Setting bios/uefi/firmware setting manually rather than having this set to auto can speed up the process hugely.

Not a big fan of reality or research I guess?

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bhabbott 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Aug-2019 15:04:11
#1889 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 32
From: Unknown

Quote:
"Can a PC fit inside an A600 case?"
Yes, there's lots of powerful minit itx and smaller form factor pcs.
Mini ITX is 170x170mm. I think it would be tight - probably too tight once you plug stuff into it. Nano-itx would probably fit, but nobody is selling them in New Zealand. Found one with an i7 on it at Ali-Express, but it's NZ$400. Then I would need Windows, some RAM, hard drive, power supply, adapters to use the keyboard and mouse etc. More $. Can't see a parallel printer port on it. Smaller boards seem to be lower speed, would they run WinUE faster than a Vampire? And really, who cares? The Vampire is already more than fast enough for any Amiga software.

Quote:
"Can it read my Amiga floppy disks, display on my 1084, work with my Amiga mouse, joystick, external floppy drive?"
Yes. There's a plethora of hardware available to give these options
So extra hardware needed. Found a thing called Kryoflux - another $200. Will it fit in the A600 case along with all the other stuff I would need? Not sure if WinUAE will read/write through it transparently in real time.

Quote:
"Can UAE on a PC access the parallel port to control my EPROM programmer or a C64 disk drive etc.?"
Yes.
WinUAE wiki says it only supports printing files.

This idea is not looking very practical, if even possible. And could cost more than a Vampire.

Quote:
"I doubt anyone running a system that emulates 680x0 code that fast would want to be associatedwith a Vampire.
The Vampire boot pic is a nice piece of art. Why would anyone not want to be 'associated' with it?

Quote:
There's lots of quickbooting pcs these days. Setting bios/uefi/firmware setting manually rather than having this set to auto can speed up the process hugely.
Can that also speed up Windows startup? Or better, make it instantly run WinUAE? Because if it doesn't then I will know it's not an Amiga, which will destroy the illusion.

Quote:
Not a big fan of reality or research I guess?
I did some research, but the reality doesn't seem to be as cut and dried as you are making out. Maybe it could be done, but would take a lot of work and money spent for no guarantee of success - whereas the Vampire is plug-and-play.

Last edited by bhabbott on 17-Aug-2019 at 03:05 PM.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 17-Aug-2019 16:35:24
#1890 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1604
From: Norway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_qIQYkyMQg

Testing MathX on the Amiga Vampire while playing Midi tunes through the Roland SC-55mkII


Machine:
Amiga 2000
Vampire 500 V2+
Roland SC-55mkII
Core, Gold 2.12, x12

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ppcamiga1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Aug-2019 20:53:47
#1891 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 141
From: Unknown

From developer POV everything with cpu faster than original C= blitter starting from a1200 with fast RAM is NG no mather what is called.

From developer POV having chipset is unimportant.

Problem with reimplementation is it is reimplementation. It is replica not original.

Natami goal was to made Amiga what C= made if not bankrupt.

After ten years natami/apollo/vampire team still do not reach this.

vampire is still not as fast and as comfortable as cheap PC from Windows 95 era and still has not 3D.

all this has Amiga ppc for many years.

Amiga ppc is Amiga what C= made if not bankrupt while vampire still not.

It was good decision to go ppc route.

Even if vampire is best 68k extension that was ever made it is still not enough.

vampire still has not 3D and vampire teasm still do not provide necessary tools for developers.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 20-Aug-2019 22:54:55
#1892 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1604
From: Norway

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bennymee 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 7:17:02
#1893 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 545
From: Netherlands

@ppcamiga1

It is the best development for classic machine's in year's!
And who knows will it end in asic someday.

Last edited by bennymee on 21-Aug-2019 at 07:18 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 8:04:10
#1894 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 141
From: Unknown

@bennymee

As I wrote it is best 68k extension ever made.
But still not enough.
still no tools for mmu, still no 3D.

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bhabbott 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 8:41:46
#1895 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2018
Posts: 32
From: Unknown

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:

vampire is still not as fast and as comfortable as cheap PC from Windows 95 era and still has not 3D.
If a PC is what you want then just get a bloody PC!

But I remember those days. My 486 PC wasn't 3D either, and Windows95 was a pig (8MB RAM was barely enough to avoid hard drive thrashing).

Then I got a Pentium machine and it still wasn't 3D. Bought a very expensive 'Voodoo' card to run my game, and getting the drivers set up properly was a nightmare. And the Voodoo card only did 3D, so you needed a regular graphics card as well, with a pass-through cable to use a single monitor with both. That's what we had to do to get proper 3D in those days.

Quote:
Amiga ppc is Amiga what C= made if not bankrupt
Then we are lucky that Commodore went bankrupt when they did.

Quote:
It was good decision to go ppc route.
No, it wasn't. I said it then and I will say it again now - if you have to switch to an incompatible CPU then it might as well be Intel.

Luckily today we have another solution - FPGA - with which anyone make their own CPU. That means 100% 68k compatibility at the hardware level, without being beholden to the whims of CPU manufacturers.

Quote:
Even if vampire is best 68k extension that was ever made it is still not enough.
You are right - it's more than enough - at least twice as powerful as the fastest Motorola 68k CPU ever made, even more compatible, and includes RTG with HDMI output! And no Intel inside :).

Quote:
vampire still has not 3D and vampire teasm still do not provide necessary tools for developers.
Tools for what, porting PC games to it? If you want to play PC games then just get a PC!

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bennymee 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 21-Aug-2019 10:36:59
#1896 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 545
From: Netherlands

@ppcamiga1

Isn't 3D possible with Mediator and a Voodoo 3 ? And yes that is cumbersome.
And MMU, isn't that a option for the future ?

I have several running PowerPC systems at my home, but the Vampire is also great, but I sold it due advantages of OS4 like running out of the box.
But the V4 is on my whishlist, because 3.1.4.




Last edited by bennymee on 21-Aug-2019 at 10:37 AM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Aug-2019 7:24:04
#1897 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 141
From: Unknown

@bhabbott

your brilliant idea to change to pc because vampire is too week is in reality not brilliant.

For Windows 95 you should by 16 MB RAM.

your problems with VooDoo was also result of lack of ram in your pc.

ppc can work in 32 big endian mode intel not thats why ppc is compatible with Amiga OS and intel not.

It was good decision to go ppc route. It is compatible and still many times faster than 68k.

vampire team should provide necessary tools for developers. We have now year 2019 not 1989.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Aug-2019 7:34:43
#1898 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 141
From: Unknown

@bennymee

vampire team waste time, work and space in FPGA on crap like ammx, registers banks etc.

instead of this they should provide blitter with texture mapping.

3D and ethernet should be in vampire OOTB.

Natami was announced as Amiga custom chips wunderwaffe without unnecessary layers and pc like technology.

What they do? they provide dumb framebuffer and everything need to be done by cpu, just like on old pc. It is slow, ineffective, and is pc way of doing things.




Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 23-Aug-2019 at 05:44 AM.
Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 23-Aug-2019 at 05:02 AM.

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kolla 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 22-Aug-2019 18:17:42
#1899 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 1315
From: Trondheim, Norway

@bhabbott

Major reason PPC was the choice was because of endianess - in that regard, ppc32 was compatible and x86 was not.

Commodore though, was heading towards PA-RISC and Windows NT, as well as they were heavy into x86 already. Amiga as we know it, would have died regardless of what happened to CBM.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 23-Aug-2019 8:03:17
#1900 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2163
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
@bennymee

vampire team waste time, work and space in FPGA on crap like ammx, registers banks etc.

instead of this they should provide blitter with texture mapping.

3D and ethernet should be in vampire OOTB.

Natami was announced as Amiga custom chips wunderwaffe without unnecessary layers and pc like technology.

What they do? they provide dumb framebuffer and everything need to be done by cpu, just like on old pc. It is slow, ineffective, and is pc way of doing things.


You need to adjust your glasses. The software blitter runs on a secondary thread of the 68080 CPU and takes full advantage of AMMX. It is easily 200 times faster than a hardware blitter and is flexible enough to emulate all the bugs in the old blitter.

As for 3D, they tried to make a "Polly" core to plot polygons but it could not keep up with an ASIC like the Raspberry Pi 3.

As for Ethernet, the V500+ has a standard SPI serial interface that can use cheap Arduino-style Ethernet if you have the drivers.

Last edited by Samurai_Crow on 23-Aug-2019 at 08:05 AM.

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