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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-May-2021 16:02:21
#1361 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11246
From: In the village

@thread

Re:Post 1357 above

Motion posted

#6

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terminills 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-May-2021 16:57:17
#1362 ]
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Posts: 1400
From: Unknown

@number6





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klx300r 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-May-2021 18:09:52
#1363 ]
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From: Toronto, Canada

@number6

delayed for what exactly?

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Cheese 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 21-May-2021 18:43:22
#1364 ]
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@klx3000r

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dalek 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 2:35:30
#1365 ]
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Joined: 7-Jun-2017
Posts: 12
From: Unknown

Sounds like Evert Carton is going to flip on Ben Hermans.

I wonder why Amiga OS 3.2 hasn't been added to the litigation? I assume once 3.1.4 is won by Cloanto that's precedence to get 3.2 from Hyperion as well?

Last edited by dalek on 23-May-2021 at 02:35 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 11:24:06
#1366 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5871
From: Unknown

@dalek

why?

Cloanto asks for it so it sounds more like Evert Carton would say something in favor of Cloanto

And the whole debate is about the question if Hyperion has violated the agreement, if court decides in favor of Cloanto the base of all Hyperion developments vanished including of course the 68k line

Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-May-2021 at 11:26 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 23-May-2021 at 11:25 AM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 11:58:44
#1367 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11246
From: In the village

@OlafS25

He's making a similar statement.

It is a phrase which can be confusing to non native speakers, since "flip" can mean "excited" about something. In this case "flip on" would mean taking a different position or speaking in opposition to.

#6

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 12:34:41
#1368 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1805
From: Trondheim, Norway

@number6

Didn’t he “flip on” Ben years ago already?
Doesn’t anyone who ever had to deal with Ben? :)

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 12:40:53
#1369 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11246
From: In the village

@kolla

I'm just explaining dalek's use of the phrase. I'm not commenting on what people perceive. heh.

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 13:18:06
#1370 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11246
From: In the village

@thread

On topic:

article (german)

article (english)

#6

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Lou 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 16:49:17
#1371 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4109
From: Rhode Island

Hopefully there are no further delays...
...wishful thinking - I know...

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bison 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 19:00:27
#1372 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1871
From: N-Space

@number6

Quote:
...they do not know which causes of action will go to trial or even whether trial will occur,

I hadn't anticipated that as a possible outcome!

Quote:
...they would be unable to efficiently prepare for trial within the short time remaining.

It would be poetic justice if the judge gave them two more weeks.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 23-May-2021 19:16:17
#1373 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5905
From: UK

@Lou

Quote:
Hopefully there are no further delays...


I am not surprised Hyperion is playing for time as they are probably wanting to maximise AmigaOS 3.2 sales while the sun shines!

Last edited by BigD on 23-May-2021 at 07:16 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 24-May-2021 8:13:16
#1374 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1139
From: Kansas

OlafS25 Quote:

Cloanto asks for it so it sounds more like Evert Carton would say something in favor of Cloanto


Hyperion Director Evert Carton - Testifying for Amiga parties against Hyperion?
AmigaOS 68k developers - No payment?
Cloanto & Amiga parties - Lawsuits against Hyperion for breach of contract and illegal IP use?
Hyperion Director Timothy De Groote - Lawsuit against Hyperion and Hyperion owes him money?
A-Eon - Settled with Hyperion after having money illegally taken by forgery?
Hyperion developers - Lawsuits against Hyperion over disputed payments?
Amiga Inc. - Lawsuit against Hyperion over disputed payments, coerced to settle with Hyperion?

Super business relationships! Is this a business or a criminal enterprise? Could it be that Hyperion did *not* pay for AmigaOS 3.1, did *not* pay AmigaOS 4 developers and did *not* pay AmigaOS 68k developers yet is selling the AmigaOS and keeping all the money?

OlafS25 Quote:

And the whole debate is about the question if Hyperion has violated the agreement, if court decides in favor of Cloanto the base of all Hyperion developments vanished including of course the 68k line


I'm not worried. It's Hyperion who should be worried. Worst case is that Hyperion's assets would be held up in bankruptcy court for awhile before being sold to the highest bidder.

Last edited by matthey on 24-May-2021 at 08:14 AM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 24-May-2021 13:12:10
#1375 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11246
From: In the village

@matthey

You could argue that your list concerns internal issues and relationships.

more concerning the outside world's actions/views

I don't see your participation in the above thread, and thought you might wish to add it to your thinking.

#6

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amigadave 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 24-May-2021 22:41:09
#1376 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1724
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@dalek

Quote:

dalek wrote:
Sounds like Evert Carton is going to flip on Ben Hermans.

I wonder why Amiga OS 3.2 hasn't been added to the litigation? I assume once 3.1.4 is won by Cloanto that's precedence to get 3.2 from Hyperion as well?


I was wondering the same thing, but I guess it isn't surprising, since the court did not uphold Cloanto's request for an injunction to stop sales of AmigaOS3.1.4, until after the court case was concluded. I don't understand why the court continues to allow Hyperion to sell OS3.1.4, during the court case, as Hyperion will never pay back the royalties/profits from selling OS3.1.4, when they lose this case and are forced to stop all AmigaOS3.x development.

@Olaf,

I don't see it as a bad thing if Hyperion loses this court case and all rights to developing AmigaOS4, and anything else to do with AmigaOS3 or earlier versions, as I have no doubt that someone else, be it Cloanto, A-Eon, or another company, will resume AmigaOS development in the future, and most probably do a much better job of it than Hyperion has ever done. If Hyperion some how miraculously wins this case, or a settlement allows Hyperion to stay in the business of developing AmigaOS4 (and god forbid AmigaOS3.x), then I'll be selling my X1000 and giving up on anything to do with AmigaOS4. I can always continue to enjoy AmigaOS3.x and earlier versions via emulation, FPGA, or my remaining original Amiga hardware, without any need to ever deal with Hyperion again. I'll certainly never buy anything from them, as I consider that a crime against the Amiga community, if I support Hyperion in any way.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 24-May-2021 22:48:38
#1377 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11246
From: In the village

@amigadave

Just to clear this up since you're not the 1st to mention this:

Short version - 3.2 is covered via 3.1.4 in the case.

In addition the following has not changed either. It's still part of the case. From the PR posted yesterday:

If you wish to support us further, please feel free to check out our AmigaOS merchandise section here.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 24-May-2021 at 10:53 PM.

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-May-2021 0:37:55
#1378 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1139
From: Kansas

amigadave Quote:

I was wondering the same thing, but I guess it isn't surprising, since the court did not uphold Cloanto's request for an injunction to stop sales of AmigaOS3.1.4, until after the court case was concluded. I don't understand why the court continues to allow Hyperion to sell OS3.1.4, during the court case, as Hyperion will never pay back the royalties/profits from selling OS3.1.4, when they lose this case and are forced to stop all AmigaOS3.x development.


It makes sense that the court would assume the 2009 Settlement Agreement is valid and interpret it according to the wording. It is up to the plaintiff Amiga parties to show otherwise (plaintiff has burden of proof). A summary judgement for the Amiga parties may *not* force Hyperion to pay the Amiga parties 68k AmigaOS revenue as the IP licenses are good until the contract is terminated by the court.

2009 Settlement Agreement Quote:

9. Termination. This Agreement and the rights and obligations contained therein, shall
enter into force as of the Effective Date and remain in force until such time as a court of competent
jurisdiction has issued a final and non-appealable ruling on the existence of a material breach
justifying termination of this Agreement.


I see 2 possible outcomes of the Amiga parties winning a summary judgement although the first is probably more likely as that is what the Amiga parties are arguing for.

1) 2009 Settlement Agreement terminated for breach of contract
o Hyperion and A-Eon have Amiga IP licenses up until "a court of competent jurisdiction has issued a final and non-appealable ruling". Hyperion and A-Eon may be able to appeal the ruling and should retain licenses until "a final and non-appealable ruling".
o Hyperion and A-Eon should *not* have to pay back the Amiga parties for using the IP licenses granted in the 2009 Settlement Agreement before termination.

2) 2009 Settlement Agreement void from inception because it is illegal
o Hyperion and A-Eon never had valid Amiga IP licenses from the 2009 Settlement Agreement.
o Hyperion and A-Eon may have to pay the Amiga parties revenue made from using Amiga licenses.

There is a separate case proceeding where the Amiga parties are suing Hyperion for using Amiga IP marks which are *not* licensed such as "Amiga", "Kickstart" and "Workbench". Hyperion may have to pay the Amiga parties whatever award the jury or judge decides if the Amiga parties win the lawsuit.

amigadave Quote:

I don't see it as a bad thing if Hyperion loses this court case and all rights to developing AmigaOS4, and anything else to do with AmigaOS3 or earlier versions, as I have no doubt that someone else, be it Cloanto, A-Eon, or another company, will resume AmigaOS development in the future, and most probably do a much better job of it than Hyperion has ever done. If Hyperion some how miraculously wins this case, or a settlement allows Hyperion to stay in the business of developing AmigaOS4 (and god forbid AmigaOS3.x), then I'll be selling my X1000 and giving up on anything to do with AmigaOS4. I can always continue to enjoy AmigaOS3.x and earlier versions via emulation, FPGA, or my remaining original Amiga hardware, without any need to ever deal with Hyperion again. I'll certainly never buy anything from them, as I consider that a crime against the Amiga community, if I support Hyperion in any way.


I think 68k AmigaOS development will continue with or without Hyperion too. I consider the new 68k AmigaOS to be legal but also question the ethics of supporting Hyperion and have not bought it. Some users think it is more important to support the project even though all the money goes to Hyperion and none to the developers. The 68k AmigaOS market is likely larger than whatever sales number Hyperion hits with the new AmigaOS in a divided Amiga market with questionable ethics.

Last edited by matthey on 25-May-2021 at 01:43 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 25-May-2021 at 12:42 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-May-2021 10:53:42
#1379 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11858
From: Norway

@matthey

I think jugged by case by case's, where Ben has stand responsible for his actions, soon or late has to pay for what he has done. Or going to do, sooner or later he is going to cross the line, if does not try make up for his mistakes.

Ben should be voted of the board of Hyperion, and face criminal proceedings. he can’t be control of company from prison cell anyway, can he? I doubt he be able payback the money he stole from Trever.

Regarding the settlement contract, it can view in different ways, I think Hyperion is allowed to keep selling AmigaOS3.x, and AmigaOS4.x, because judge does not disagree with Hyperion’s (Ben) views, regarding settlement contract.

Regarding developers working on 3.1.4 and 3.2 the developers have accepted to not get paid, so I do not see a problem with it, and as I read somewhere some developers did not accept being paid when offered. And also, lot of software is not included with 3.2 like AmiDock, and Roadshow TCP stack, so these developers are not being ripped off. You can download AmiDock from Aminet (or copy it from OS3.5/3.9), and you can buy Roadshow separately. It was argued that cost more if it was included, I guess that means that a license fee be accept in that case.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-May-2021 at 12:44 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-May-2021 at 11:14 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-May-2021 at 11:11 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 25-May-2021 at 10:54 AM.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 25-May-2021 16:18:25
#1380 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1805
From: Trondheim, Norway

@NutsAboutAmiga

Hyperion has a board? As far as I know, Hyperion is just one man at this point.

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