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ne_one 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 28-May-2018 23:45:33
#521 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 866
From: Unknown

@number6

Argh... I missed that.

What was the abridged version of the story?

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 0:20:55
#522 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10629
From: In the village

@ne_one

Quote:
What was the abridged version of the story?


Can you be a bit more specific?
I posted a few times since you last posted and I'm not clear what you are asking.

#6

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ne_one 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 2:55:22
#523 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 866
From: Unknown

@number6

From your last message...

Quote:
Gee...might that explain some of the frustration with Hyperion being expressed by Thomas about a month ago?

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bison 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 4:40:29
#524 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1353
From: N-Space

@SHADES

Cloanto seems uncertain about this as well -- see paragraph 13 of the PDF linked in post #510. I'm not sure exactly what "upon information and belief" means, but it seems like they are hedging a bit here.

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SHADES 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 6:27:39
#525 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 636
From: Melbourne

@bison

SO, as I see it, they (Cloanto) have an issue with Hyperioon being the "only" owner to AmigaOS 3.1 and source code, they have zero interest in 4x though. As an emulation software company for 3.1 OS, I guess it kind of makes sense as, the 3.1OS is very old now and does require emulation. So does 3.9 right? or is that owned by another company as well lol

I'm unsure on the point though really. Did it affect them somehow?
I guess having two manufacturers selling different 3.1 kickstart purchases could be an issue.

Actually, given that thinking, why the hell is Hyperion suddenly interested in 3.1 again! shouldn't they be concentrating on OS4x ???

Something stinky is going on.....

Last edited by SHADES on 29-May-2018 at 06:32 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 29-May-2018 at 06:30 AM.

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 9:20:36
#526 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 760
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@bison

"upon information and belief" -- technical legal term, search for the phrase on this page.

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 9:28:12
#527 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 760
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@SHADES

Quote:
SO, as I see it, they (Cloanto) have an issue with Hyperioon being the "only" owner to AmigaOS 3.1 and source code, they have zero interest in 4x though.
That's not how I read it. Cloanto wouldn't have a problem with Hyperion being the "only" owner to AmigaOS 3.1 if Hyperion actually owned it.

Cloanto has actual rights to AmigaOS 3.1: perpetual and exclusive. They paid for these rights.

Hyperion has no rights to AmigaOS 3.1, except to use in developing the 4.x series.

In particular, Hyperion has no right to distribute Kickstart 3.1, but that's precisely what they've started doing. It's as if I were to have made an agreement with Amiga, Inc. back when they were still around that I could use the source code for AmigaOS 4.x to develop AmigaOS 5.x, and now that I've noticed Amiga, Inc. isn't around anymore I've decided to start selling copies of Amiga OS 4.1 without asking Hyperion for permission, nor paying them any royalties.

In layman's terms, the complaint alleges that Hyperion has engaged in software piracy, AKA theft, and asks for due punishment.

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SHADES 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 13:53:42
#528 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 636
From: Melbourne

@simplex

Ok, this makes much more sense.
Still, why are Hyperion suddenly interested in an old OS3.xx series now??
They should be interested in getting OS4.xx out. This seems a very starnge moe, stranger when you put it in context that they don't have the rights, although they clearly think they do.

What happened to 3.9 anyway. They arn't intrested in that.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 14:43:31
#529 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10629
From: In the village

@ne_one

As readers of A1k, eab, and amiga.org wiill know, threads with postings concerning what we call 3.1.4 are extensive. Anyone who has read these threads will note that every few pages someone asks "when" (release). This question, obviously, never receives answer from either Olaf or Thomas, since it is not a question they can answer.
It is obvious they had to ask Hyperion.
Eventually it reached a point where (my term) "frustration" was reached.

You probably know I try to back up what I post with direct links.
In this case, Amiga.org is currently down. A1k is currently not even readable by non-members like myself.
Ergo, I can not supply a series of direct links to illustrate the use of my word "frustration".

At the very least all I tried to convey here is a connection to what Kolla was saying...a possible connection between (1)not releasing the work and (2)a section of the lawsuit that might explain why.

I hope my response suffices. If anyone has access to the direct quote/s they are free to post them.

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 14:50:18
#530 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10629
From: In the village

@SHADES

Quote:
What happened to 3.9 anyway.


who owns what

Hope this helps you understand a bit about 3.9

Old thread indeed, and more has transpired since, but you can always learn more by using AW search or google with AW for site.

https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/search.php

Just enter some keywords and the nickname of someone you trust to impart the truth about said topic.

Another example of people protecting their work:
T. Frieden, H. Frieden & A. Vallinotto v. Amiga Inc. & Hyperion VOF

#6

Last edited by number6 on 29-May-2018 at 02:59 PM.

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 14:57:58
#531 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 760
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@SHADES
Quote:
...stranger when you put it in context that they don't have the rights, although they clearly think they do.

If the allegations in the lawsuit are correct, Hyperion knows they have no right to the software.

The strange thing to me (based on very limited knowledge) is on what grounds Hyperion imagines they have rights to the software. Cloanto has been distributing this software for decades (I bought a copy from them back in 2003 or thereabouts) and the terms of the arrangement have been fairly well known. Amiga, Inc. never sued Cloanto for distributing the software, but they did sue Hyperion for breach of contract (or something to that effect) and after a fair amount of time in litigation Hyperion won -- mainly because (IIRC) Amiga, Inc. ran out of money to pursue the litigation. That does give Cloanto's claims a certain aura of credibility.

[i]added in edit]
source 1
source 2

Last edited by simplex on 29-May-2018 at 03:07 PM.

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SimplePPC 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 15:02:15
#532 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 109
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@ne_one

As readers of A1k, eab, and amiga.org wiill know, threads with postings concerning what we call 3.1.4 are extensive. Anyone who has read these threads will note that every few pages someone asks "when" (release). This question, obviously, never receives answer from either Olaf or Thomas, since it is not a question they can answer.
It is obvious they had to ask Hyperion.
Eventually it reached a point where (my term) "frustration" was reached.


Well if you want to know "when" then ask Hyperion ? Luckily we do read forums so i'll reply :)

'When it is done', and that is the only correct answer. As Hyperion does have 'exclusive rights' to 'the Software' there is absolutely no legal reason why it is not released.

You probably know I try to back up what I post with direct links.
In this case, Amiga.org is currently down. A1k is currently not even readable by non-members like myself.
Ergo, I can not supply a series of direct links to illustrate the use of my word "frustration".

Quote:

At the very least all I tried to convey here is a connection to what Kolla was saying...a possible connection between (1)not releasing the work and (2)a section of the lawsuit that might explain why.

I hope my response suffices. If anyone has access to the direct quote/s they are free to post them.


To make it very clear to all who are reading this: There is NO connection wrg to timeframes of any release of AmigaOS.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 15:09:32
#533 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10629
From: In the village

@simplex

Quote:
mainly because (IIRC) Amiga, Inc. ran out of money to pursue the litigation.


Pentti Kouri passed away and with that the chance of continued funding.
If you have read the lawsuits and my extensive postings concerning Itec LLC (Kouri/Grzymala and now just a gaggle of Reed Smith attorneys trying to recoup millions from the Kouri estate), you will note Cloanto's interesting response.

Excuse non-quote and plain english..."who the hell are you guys and what right do you have here..."

btw-I failed to report a recent response from Itec LLC. They have postponed any objection to Cloanto's filing for the Amiga trademark in the U.S. (uspto) since everything comes down to the 2 cases in Washington State now. You will also note from prior posts that the 3 Amiga parties had failed to respond and were therefore by agreement of both Cloanto and Hyperion issued summonses by the court.

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 15:22:13
#534 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10629
From: In the village

@SimplePPC

Timothy,

Thank you for your response.
I appreciate the fact that you still do read the forums and have the willingness to comment.

We have (my link) been able to comment on the amended complaint of Cloanto.
However, we have no hard copy of Hyperion's amended complaint.
I'll be the 1st to say that this makes the comments a tad one-sided atm.
Perhaps if and when we have the Hyperion amended complaint, any analysis/conjecture will be a bit more balanced.

#6

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Lou 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 17:21:27
#535 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3958
From: Rhode Island

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:


Actually, given that thinking, why the hell is Hyperion suddenly interested in 3.1 again! shouldn't they be concentrating on OS4x ???

Something stinky is going on.....

There has been a resurgance in the 'classic' market thanks to the Vampire boards..
So they are trying to cash in on it.

;)

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bison 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 21:05:42
#536 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1353
From: N-Space

@simplex

Useful information; thanks for the link.

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pavlor 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 29-May-2018 21:23:49
#537 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8984
From: Unknown

@simplex

Quote:
Hyperion has no rights to AmigaOS 3.1, except to use in developing the 4.x series.


If I read the 2009 Settlement correctly, your assumption is wrong.

Without prejudice to any Existing Licence Agreements listed on Exhibit 1, the Amiga Parties hereby grant Hyperion (at Hyperion´ s sole expense) an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide and royalty-free, transferable right and Object Code and Source Code license to the Software in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market the Software in any form (including through sublicensing), on any medium (now known or otherwise), through any means (including but not limited to making AmigaOS 4 available to the public via the internet) and for any current or future hardware platform.

(2009 Settlement Agreement, 1. (b); note the "Software" is AmigaOS3.1)

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 30-May-2018 0:05:57
#538 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 760
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@pavlor

Quote:
If I read the 2009 Settlement correctly, your assumption is wrong.

I think you're right; the settlement agreement states that AmigaOS 3.1 was developed in 1994. Cloanto owns the copyright on everything up through 1993. I was wondering later if I had confused 3.1 with 1.3 somewhere, and in fact the complaint refers to "Kickstart 1.3"; I just had the numbers backwards. Sorry. But the point is still the same.

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simplex 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 30-May-2018 22:15:28
#539 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Oct-2003
Posts: 760
From: Hattiesburg, MS

@number6

Quote:
Pentti Kouri passed away and with that the chance of continued funding.

Yes, that's mainly what I meant by "ran out of money."

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 30-May-2018 22:46:51
#540 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1199
From: Trondheim, Norway

@pavlor

You should really quote the other points as well, as they put point b) in perspective, and clarifies its intent and meaning.

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