@AdvancedFollower

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So now networking cards are Amigas too.

Sure. After all, phones can be Amigas now. If that doesn't bother you, then you must have grown up at least 20 years after I did.

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Soon, my dishwasher will be an Amiga.

Probably not, what on account of its too-limited screen resolution.

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@thread

More seriously, this reminds me of what someone told me last year. Motorola/Freescale was too interested in the embedded market, so they developed great PowerPC chips for that. IBM was too interested in the high-performance computing market, so they developed great PowerPC chips for that. Apple was too interested in making money, so they left the PowerPC platform.

The end result is that you can now find all sorts of PowerPC chips to run a network card or a supercomputer, but none for desktop-class PowerPC.

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@simplex

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but none for desktop-class PowerPC.

What defines "desktop-class"?

Ah yes, Microsoft compatibility.

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@Karlos

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My Grandmother's washing machine had a 16MHz 68EC020 in it 20 years ago.

A similar washing machine today probably has a Freescale QorlIQ P1022 in it.

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Hollywood work with warpos

PPC chips are in a lot of laser printers...
...as well as 90's GM PCMs...

@sinisrus

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sinisrus wrote: Hollywood work with warpos

for hollywood programming youll likely be much better off with vampire than with warpos. on amiga the limiting factor was output to gfx and ppc cant help with it., except when siting on pci bus anyway could talk to rtg card directly.

Last edited by wawa on 14-Aug-2018 at 06:36 PM.

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simplex wrote: Motorola/Freescale was too interested in the embedded market, so they developed great PowerPC chips for that.

I'm afraid your sentence needs corrections.

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history wrote: Motorola/Freescale was too interested in using the PPC instead of 68k for the embedded market so ARM developed mediocre chips for that.

Motorola/Freescale owned the embedded market before ARM. PPC was shoved down customers throats and many dissatisfied customers left for ARM. PPC is a poor choice for embedded use due to difficulty to use at a low level and poor code density. PPC practically requires a good compiler and high level tools which PPC did not have early on. The situation improved as tools matured and more advanced operating systems became common but it is still a poor choice for anything but high level embedded applications.

@utri007

What a cool idea, and demonstration of cleverness in the Amiga world.

Now, I'm not sure about cheap, as one still needs to get a PCI bus board, if does not already have it, correct? And that PCI bus board ain't cheap. But this is really cool.

I also didn't know about the other non-Sonnet boards on the supported list.

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@utri007

awesome stuff! saw a prelim starter thread over at EAB a year or so ago and wow how amazing to get things going on realm Amigas soo fast..if nly the rest only the rest of Amiga world would move along as quickly

so if one gets one of these supported PPC boards then they could run AmigaOS3.9, all 68k sofware and PPC Warp OS software too ???

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@klx300r

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awesome stuff! saw a prelim starter thread over at EAB a year or so ago and wow how amazing to get things going on realm Amigas soo fast..if nly the rest only the rest of Amiga world would move along as quickly so if one gets one of these supported PPC boards then they could run AmigaOS3.9, all 68k sofware and PPC Warp OS software too ???

Correct. You need an A3000/A4000 and a Mediator PCI busboard. A1200 support is preliminary and not finished. The list of supported software on the wiki is all Warp OS software.
The recommended configuration includes a Voodoo 3 PCI for Warp3D and so the PowerPC board can communicate directly to the graphics card. Radeon 9200 PCI also works but no Warp3D driver was ever released.

@Goodtar

I wonder if the slightly newer K1 model is supported as well? From what I've read, it's slightly lower clocked (333Mhz vs 400mhz) and was made to be cost reduced, and, from what I've seen, is more available in the US than the original one shown here.

Same NPU it seems, besides the clock speed.

@themamboman

Q: What's the quickest way to make something disappear?
A: Annouce that SonnetPCI for Amiga supports it...

@utri007

I'm not sure I would have used the word "available" in the title... :) Can anyone find them for sale?

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@matthey

I'm not an embedded engineer, so I have to defer to your judgment. My father is one, but in our last conversation he expressed disappointment in the abandonment of the 6809 in favor of 68000. He said the 6809 was one of the greatest designs he'd ever seen.

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@kolla

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What defines "desktop-class"? Ah yes, Microsoft compatibility.

That's not my criterion (I don't use Microsoft at all). Given all the grumbling around here about how Amiga hardware designers seems capable of incorporating anything other than a network chip, I concluded that desktop-class PPC seems unavailable.

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Karlos wrote: @AdvancedFollower My Grandmother's washing machine had a 16MHz 68EC020 in it 20 years ago. Your point is?

We are only about 20 years late to the "I ported Linux to run on my digital camera" type craze...

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@billt

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billt wrote: Quote: Karlos wrote: @AdvancedFollower My Grandmother's washing machine had a 16MHz 68EC020 in it 20 years ago. Your point is? We are only about 20 years late to the "I ported Linux to run on my digital camera" type craze...

which wasnt that bad, when the original firmware sucked big time. (talking some earlier mobile players).

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simplex wrote: I'm not an embedded engineer, so I have to defer to your judgment. My father is one, but in our last conversation he expressed disappointment in the abandonment of the 6809 in favor of 68000. He said the 6809 was one of the greatest designs he'd ever seen.

The 6809 (including 6811 variants which are still used today) is one of the great embedded CPUs and one of the best accumulator architecture CPUs of all time. The PIC (Position Independent Code) and re-entrant code support along with 2 stacks allowed early advanced operating systems to be used. The 68000 came out only about a year later and overshadowed the 6809 which was smaller, simpler and cheaper. The 6809 could only address 64kiB of memory but that was not as much of a limitation back then and for many embedded applications. The 68000 was really too high end for most embedded applications back then but the register-memory architecture proved better than accumulator and load/store architectures for instruction counts, code density and memory traffic (the 68k has a little memory-memory architecture which further improves all 3 of these categories). The 16 semi-GP registers hit the sweet spot for performance vs efficiency and allowed compilers to become much better, the powerful addressing modes allow PIC and re-entrant code of up to 64kiB (4GiB with 68020 ISA but not as efficient as it could be), it was designed to access up to 4GiB from the beginning and supported 32 bit integer datatypes which were rarely used back then. The 6809 was like a very good economical car of the day while the 68000 was like a revolutionary luxury car but a good value and mass produced. The PPC would be like an average car which is fairly efficient, has some high end features and good ideas but has terrible ergonomics, poor fit and finish, is heavy and not that fast considering the go fast features and has become unpopular and outdated after years of production of similar models.

@simplex

"desktop-class" PowerPC chips are used elsewhere, as there is no desktop PowerPC market.

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