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      /  AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
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Poll : AmigaOS4 KVM/Emulation
I would get AmigaOS4 Forever Edition/check out emulation
I already run OS4 in Emulation
Intresting, see where this goes...
AmigaOS4 Hardware only!
Not intrested in Emulation
Not intrested in OS4
Pancakes!
 
PosterThread
tlosm 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 17-Oct-2023 12:28:52
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@pixie

this is an old 5y ago qemu version running on a PC not on a PI 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZJ42NPG8Qo
I will made test soon a new version of Qemu and if i will have time will made a new video about.

__
Note computational capability of a PI4 clocked at 1.8 ghz with Debian Sid 64bit is much more better and faster than X5000/40.

Ciao

_________________
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pixie 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 17-Oct-2023 12:44:28
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3165
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@tlosm

The question here is was for ARM, doing a JIT is like doing a new implementation altogether (from what I gathered it seem it is now implemented), but since he talk about professionalism one should see exactly what 17 years in the making gave on arm... I have no doubt that qemu works better in the x86 platform, i have seen it running also on my computer, still I don't know if it is faster then WinUAE though. Will try to do some tests

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tlosm 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 17-Oct-2023 12:55:20
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@pixie
WinUae is much more faster in 68k mode but not on PPC emulation where it use qemu TGC for emulate the ppc cpu.

this was my G5 Quad with fsuae + qemu core running amigaos3 and 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ExCTPzEOk

Edit the PI 4 performances of qemu running without an overclock are the same of G5 quad. with overclock are better. will be curious on Pi5 when it will be available.

Last edited by tlosm on 17-Oct-2023 at 01:06 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 17-Oct-2023 at 01:00 PM.

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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pixie 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 17-Oct-2023 18:26:31
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3165
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@tlosm

I get 81.8 FPS in 800x600 in 68k, I am having horrible glitches with MorphOS, still from one time I got it to run about 7 fps. And this is is the best optimized Qemu one can get, yet if you check EMU68 you get pretty much respectable values out there, and they're about to get a major gfx driver update so the gfx bottleneck will be even less of an issue. In the end how it is supposed that ARM to outperform this kind of values is ludicrous.


PS- I tested it on my Macbook Air M1, and while the glitches persist, I got a speedbump to 21FPS

Last edited by pixie on 17-Oct-2023 at 08:04 PM.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 17-Oct-2023 20:33:47
#65 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 790
From: Unknown

I have sam460 AND rpi.
emu68 is four 4 times on my rpi slower than my sam460.
qemu is still faster up to 40% faster on my rpi than emu68.
devilutionX I may play on linux on my rpi.
Using AGA for graphics is simply stupid when RTG is avaible.
I don't need this.
Amiga games don't need anything more than 7 MHz.
remove original cpu to play amiga games on emulator.
no no no and no.
deluxe music. 8 bit music. No. it was not enough so many years ago.

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pixie 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 17-Oct-2023 20:51:06
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3165
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
I have sam460 AND rpi.
emu68 is four 4 times on my rpi slower than my sam460.

Qemu is faster running what? What do you run on both emu68 and qemu on your RPI? Why would someone compare AGA graphics, at all.

You do know that you have multiple online translators that allow to express yourself better then that word salad of yours, there's really no excuse, unless you don't to make sense on purpose

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michalsc 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 17-Oct-2023 22:17:43
#67 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jun-2005
Posts: 377
From: Germany

@pixie

Quote:
What do you run on both emu68 and qemu on your RPI?


Nothing. He does not even have PiStorm I guess. He's just trolling...

Please, do not feed the troll...

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agami 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 0:10:47
#68 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1678
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Karlos

Quote:
Don't conflate whole system emulation with CPU-only emulation/virtualization.

Rule No. 5 - from the Book of Karlos.

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All the way, with 68k

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agami 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 0:25:59
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1678
From: Melbourne, Australia

@pixie

Quote:
michalsc wrote:
@pixie

Quote:
What do you run on both emu68 and qemu on your RPI?


Nothing. He does not even have PiStorm I guess. He's just trolling...

Please, do not feed the troll...

Yes. Everything ppcamiga1 states is highly subjective, full of confirmation bias, and drenched in the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Anything that challenges his major outlay in alternative computing (A1X1k), which in turn is a challenge to his very identity, is automatically bad.
In his mind, he sees himself as the rare purist capable of recogizing the brilliance of Power ISA, and it being the only hope against the onslaught of mass produced silicon from pretty much every other camp.
That's why he can't do basic math. Or rather when he does, 2 + 2 = 8 when it comes to PPC.

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Hammer 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 1:57:32
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5369
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote:
I have sam460 AND rpi.
emu68 is four 4 times on my rpi slower than my sam460.
qemu is still faster up to 40% faster on my rpi than emu68.
devilutionX I may play on linux on my rpi.
Using AGA for graphics is simply stupid when RTG is avaible.
I don't need this.
Amiga games don't need anything more than 7 MHz.
remove original cpu to play amiga games on emulator.
no no no and no.
deluxe music. 8 bit music. No. it was not enough so many years ago.

Again, post your benchmarks and be specific about RPi models.

For example,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvsswLemWdY
Diablo (DevilutionX 68K Amiga port) performance test on PiStorm32-Lite Emu68 RTG at stock clock speeds. Raspberry Pi 4B for the Amiga 1200 and the frame rate counter are shown.
1280x720 resolution at time stamp 15:06. This is pure CPU power since the Broadcom V P96 driver is incomplete. Michal Schulz has demonstrated an improved P96 driver in recent Amiga shows.

Sam460's AmigaOS4 SDL1.2 port results from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsOKIB95UHM
DevilutionX 1.4.1, fullscreen 1280x720 resolution results.

Deluxe Music 2 can run on WinUAE/AmigaOS 3.X/68K which uses PC's midi services e.g. Yamaha S-YXG50 VSTi plugin on a modern SoundBlaster XE-5 despite my two X670E motherboards having either TUF's Realtek S1220A or ROG SupremeFX 7.1 Surround Sound High Definition ALC4082 Audio CODECs.

I do have Yamaha DGX-640 with USB MIDI.

Deluxe Music 2 is just a retro Amiga 68K app example when I have modern Calkwalk 2022 and MuseScore 4 on Windows 11.

Deluxe Music 2 is mostly desktop music publishing which is MuseScore 4's target market.

I can purchase expensive motherboards when it has class-leading PCIe 5.0 performance e.g. ASUS ROG Crosshair X670E Hero. ASUS AM4/AM5 motherboards have ECC memory support, hence I turn my gaming PCs into workstation platforms at any time. I have looked at the Raptor Computing System's POWER9 Blackbird solution, but I rather spend my budget on the RTX 4090 card that can deliver class-leading raytracing performance. AMD's RX 7900 XTX'a Blender 3D (via Linux HIP) raytracing performance has improved but it's a class below RTX 4080 and RTX 4090.

Last edited by Hammer on 18-Oct-2023 at 02:44 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Oct-2023 at 02:38 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Oct-2023 at 02:33 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Oct-2023 at 02:31 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Oct-2023 at 02:18 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Oct-2023 at 02:06 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 18-Oct-2023 at 02:03 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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ppcamiga1 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 7:47:17
#71 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 790
From: Unknown

@Hammer

you wrote usual crap as usually.
as usually pure bullshit about hardware that you don't own.
I own sam460 and rpi3.
My Sam460 is 5 times faster than emu68 on my rpi3.
I run quake in 320x240 8 bit.
emu68 makes 62 fps.
sam460 makes 321 fps.

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ppcamiga1 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 7:50:57
#72 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Aug-2015
Posts: 790
From: Unknown

And to be honest I use vampire as 68k ng.
but amiga games?
It is perversion to remove original cpu from Motorola
replace it with emulator and play amiga games.
I may consider buy yet another amiga 500 from Commodore but 68000 in it will stay forever.



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tlosm 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 12:04:33
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

@ppcamiga1

___
sam460 makes 321 fps ???

much more than X5000/40


and much more compared the G4 1266 mhz of a pegasos2

Last edited by tlosm on 18-Oct-2023 at 12:05 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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umisef 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 13:32:23
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia

@geen_naam

Quote:

geen_naam wrote:
@umisef

Nonsensical? Emulators provided a window into the past in most cases. A snapshot in time at best.

It was only when new hardware projects appeared when things got moving again with the( Aros based) OS3 spinnoffs and AmigaOS3.2+.


The argument "we should use our own, overpriced and underperforming, hardware, because if we get better performance using emulation on the machine our potential users already own, they might be tempted to get even better performance from the native ports" is indeed non-sensical --- that temptation doesn't suddenly go away just because that hypothetical user paid $$$$ for custom hardware. Such a requirement just means there are a lot fewer potential users, seeing the massive hurdle required to even try your offering.

And as I alluded to, this exact argument was made by Hyperion 22 years ago. So the last 22 years are a pretty good case study of exactly how non-sensical that argument is.

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amigang 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 15:43:54
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2026
From: Cheshire, England

@pixie

Quote:
The question here is was for ARM, doing a JIT is like doing a new implementation altogether (from what I gathered it seem it is now implemented), but since he talk about professionalism one should see exactly what 17 years in the making gave on arm... I have no doubt that qemu works better in the x86 platform


There this old thread on MacRumors that claimed PPC emulation was twice as fast on ARM,
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ppc-emulation-near-twice-as-fast-on-arm.2243003/

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Hammer 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 15:56:51
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5369
From: Australia

@ppcamiga1

Quote:
sam460 makes 321 fps.

Prove it.

Note that, I have RPi 4B on A1200.

Last edited by Hammer on 18-Oct-2023 at 04:12 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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amigang 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 16:01:04
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2026
From: Cheshire, England

@amigang

One thing I want to ask the devs, is would it be possible to make a dedicated Emulator GUI for just AmigaOS4 emulation under QEMU. QEMU is open source, so it be nice if all the settings, addon and little hacks where all pre-setup and ready to go, the user would just require a copy of AmigaOS4, my guess Pegasos2 version and how much hard drive space to give it. Just to make it a bit easier for us end users.

I mean I thank Rene Engel & Zoltan Balaton for this,
https://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2023-03-00113-EN.html
but would be nice to have it say as simple as WinUAE.

Last edited by amigang on 18-Oct-2023 at 04:05 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 16:50:49
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2746
From: Amiga land

This is QuakeSpasm (mesa) on RasperryPi4 performances
First is the Arm second is the emulated X86 version inside the piOS

Image
it was running in 640x480 both version.
I m pretty sure the PI will able to run Quake PPC with Virtio GPU with a qemu amgaos with about 70/80 fps performances at 640x480.

Just for mention
Quake on PowerMac G5 Quad on Quadro GPU at 640x480 run at 636fps on OSX
Video

Here the MacMini i5 vs G5 Quad with Quake4
Video

Note this are really old video.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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pixie 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 16:56:37
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3165
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@amigang

Quote:
There this old thread on MacRumors that claimed PPC emulation was twice as fast on ARM,
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ppc-emulation-near-twice-as-fast-on-arm.2243003/


I saw that when I tried it on my M1. I wasn't expecting that. But it was about 3 times as "fast" on MorphOS, sure it's not only cpu being emulated, there's also the gfx card, but still, 7-21fps jump on a similar otherwise CPU AMD 5800X vs M1

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pixie 
Re: AmigaOS4 KVM Edition? virtual gpu driver Picasso96 coming soon.
Posted on 18-Oct-2023 17:04:15
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 3165
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@tlosm

Quote:
this is an old 5y ago qemu version running on a PC not on a PI 4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZJ42NPG8Qo

Well one thing about your videos was they hadn't the amount of glitches mine have had. And they're quite 'dated', I was running it on the latest QEMU 8

Quote:
I will made test soon a new version of Qemu and if i will have time will made a new video about.

Can't wait! Even because now I have subscribed!

Quote:
This is QuakeSpasm (mesa) on RasperryPi4 performances
First is the Arm second is the emulated X86 version inside the piOS

Those are impressive speeds indeed, but I guess it has more to do with mesa acceleration, otherwise having such close ratio (0.75) would be crazy!

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