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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hold On A Minute!
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Yogi27 
Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 2:54:34
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Dec-2002
Posts: 327
From: Chicago, Illinois

Hi everyone from the states!

I know that there is already a lot of posts going on about Alan. However, after reading the if you do or don't own an AmigaOne discussions, I had to say something! First and foremost, I own three AmigaOnes (2 Micro, and an XE). I purchased all three of them from Software Hut. I am also working with a group of people that are writing software for OS 4.0. I also run a bbs, that is joinlink with 5 other bbses and three of them are running on AmigaOnes.

I would like to say that I appreciate what Alan has done. I personally have no complaints with the hardware at all. It is reliable, and I know the XE has some bugs, but nothing I can't live with. I have never come home and seen one of the machines lock up or had any serious problems with the quality of the machines. Plus, it is summer here and I don't have them in the A/C and no problems.

After reading Alans answers, I am sorry, but I just can't agree with him on some points. First, he has not made it easy to get boards. I also know for a fact that there are people waiting here in the states that can't touch them. Softhut has not had boards in almost 4 months. How are we going to get people to try the Amiga when you can't get the motherboard? Another thing, these boards are not cheap as far as industry standards go, but they sold all of them! Not to mention the OS is not done! Not everyone is up for the beta testing thing! Alan, be realistic! You cannot expect stellar sales, when you don't make enough boards, and the operating system designed for them is not finished! All I would ask from you sir, is to make boards available, expecially when the operating system is done! Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot now!

Some points I do agree (sort of) with Alan on! As far as the new hardware, yeah hold on! The OS is not done yet! Let's work with what we got (Anyone who has used an A1 knows it is more responsive then much faster mhz computers.)! Go after the industry market! Knock yourself out! OS 4.0 is perfect for some areas of that market! The more you sell the better! But, why put us loyal Amiga users down! I agree they can be harsh in the forums! But, that is free speech and the price you pay for being in the position your in! Why are you listening to them? I posted this and I am sure they are going to tear me to pieces, but hey, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

I had posted on Amiga.org sometime ago, that yes, users who do nothing but complain should buy one of the new systems (peg/A1). It is time we do something! I don't disagree with that. That is why I am writing software for OS 4.0. The more software we have the better, and it is time for be to give back to this computer, for all the years of service it has given me! And as a community, we need to do this!

One more final thought, just my opinion, but Mac just shot themselves in the foot for real! This could be a good opportunity for us! We have some time before they release this Mac with intel inside monster! This gives us time to get our game up to speed, so we can maybe woo some of those PPC mac people over. Why not try? I have faith in the community (silly me, you say), and I think we can get our act together. We finally have some people (Hyperion) in charge who actually like the Amiga! I am just scared that we will rise to the occasion (software, and os 4.0), but be stuck in the situation where Alan does not (Cannot get motherboards), etc!

Thanks for listening!

Sorry for the long post!

Yogi

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hotrod 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 3:07:11
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2776
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@Yogi27

Thank you for writing this! It's good to read a positive post for a change

I like what I read but if it's doable is up to others to decide.

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Samwel 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 4:09:17
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3396
From: Sweden

@Yogi27

Hasn't this been told a thousand times? If a dealer pays in advance Eyetech
will ship boards to them. There is also a minimum number of boards per batch
that will have to be prepayed. Probably atleast 8 boards at a time (a dealer
could confirm this).
If a dealer has NOT got any boards he simply has NOT payed for any.

Look at GGS-Data, they recently got hold of boards. How is this possible if there
are none available?
In the 20 questions Alan told us (about wegsters 512MB memory question) that
they will check the possiblity of adding 512MB instead of 256MB in "subsequent
runs". This must mean that more A1-C are planned, does it not?

Quote:

We will look at the cost and availability of 512MB - and its effect on the end user pricing - for subsequent production runs - but no promises. Whatever the outcome all boards in a manufacturing run will have the same type/size of SODIMM.

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Yogi27 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 4:15:22
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Dec-2002
Posts: 327
From: Chicago, Illinois

@Samwel

Maybe that is true in Europe, or perhaps you are just listening to Alan, but I can tell you for a fact, that is not the case here in the United States. Boards have been ordered, and prepayed, yet no response from Eyetech!

I know Eyetech will make more, I didn't say they wouldn't. But, it would be nice to have some available boards for immediate sale! Not, okay, I have 30 customers waiting, where are the boards! Then the customers get fed up and cancel there order. Boom, lost sale!


Yogi

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Samwel 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 5:08:16
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3396
From: Sweden

@Yogi27

If that's the case then Eyetech is doing REALLY bad business.
Why ship to some and not to others?!? Sounds strange!

I have seen Alan mention before that some have not payed and he will
not send until payment is in full. But I don't know anything about any specific
dealers you might know of..

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Yogi27 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 6:03:49
#6 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Dec-2002
Posts: 327
From: Chicago, Illinois

@Samwel

Let me just speak from my own personal example. We are very good customers of Softhut. Been ordering stuff from them for years! When we ordered our two micro Amigas, softhut told us that we were behind 30 something other people to get one! We have an account with them, so they just charge our credit card, you know what I mean! We would call everyother week to see what was going on! They kept telling us, waiting on Eyetech to ship, waiting on Eyetech, etc. This went on for at least 2 months. The guy at softhut was even telling us he had just about had it with Eyetech at one point. He had customers waiting and couldn't even get in contact with them about his order! Come on now! My other friends is in the same boat right now waiting on this next batch for softhut. I am not trying to speak for Softhut by any means, but that was my own personal experience.

I find it hard to believe that almost every amiga dealer is out and people are waiting, that this is the fault of all these dealers. I did hear the next batch is due out this month I believe. Keeping my fingers crossed for my friend! Either way, something has to be done about this. Exp. when the final version of OS 4.0 comes out!

Yogi

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Anonymous 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 8:20:42
# ]



Hi Yogi27,


Excellent post.


I'd like to bring to the members of this boards attention, you may be a part of history, when AmigaOne makes it into the spotlight again!


You can't put a price on "being there from the beginning", over "follower of the crowd"!


Be a part of something that is important!!!!

 
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TrevorDick 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 11:33:28
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 2641
From: Wellington

@Yogi27

I appreciate your comments and concerns, but I think Eyetech (Alan) was just telling us how it is! The problem is we have a love an affection for our Amiga platform that is not shared by the world at large. The vast commercial business market is controlled by the need for standardisation and Windoze & PC's (in general) satisfy that need. The games market is dominated by consoles. Eyetech it seems are trying to developed specialist niche markets in the industrial sector and as a spin-off we "Amiga enthusiasts" get new Amigas and long may it continue.

Quote:
I own three AmigaOnes (2 Micro, and an XE). I purchased all three of them from Software Hut. I am also working with a group of people that are writing software for OS 4.0.


Keep up the good work. I hope to see some of your software for sale in the near future?

TrevorDick

PS I also own 2 x A1's and one A1-XE

Last edited by TrevorDick on 08-Jun-2005 at 11:34 AM.

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Foody 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 13:41:28
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Sep-2003
Posts: 1467
From: Canada

@Yogi27

I have saved almost money now to buy A1, couple of 100 dollars missing, but from the sound of this I should no longer bother invest on an A1. That is the worst feared, I kept thinking I wonder would A1 be around when I have finally enough money and my question is answered. Nope, it will not be. So I guess I was just too late * shrug * A1 already became like the classics and worse, at least with the classic you can easily have your hands on it in ebay, while with A1 no chance in hell, and with the classics you can get all the classics softwares and games and there ARE LOTS of those, enough to fill you for life, * looks hard at a far distance for an OS 4.0 software * Nope,nothing. So to me now that I think hard about it, is no lose, will not I wouldn't mind having my hands on one, but because of the situation there is no hope and no lose. That is a big chunk of money I could invest on a better PC, x86 for example ;)

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Toaks 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 14:38:57
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8034
From: amigaguru.com

@Foody

i have no idea what you just wrote and guess what its not impossible to find a1's , it is hard RIGHT now yes but far from impossible.

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elwood 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 14:39:37
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3406
From: Lyon, France

Hi,

If nobody can get board, does it mean that Eyetech don't have any boards left ?
If this is the case, there are 1700 users out there. This is a good thing.

_________________
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Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
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sundown 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 23:27:21
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5103
From: Right here...

My feeling is, we have a catch 22 situation, at least here in North America. Most ppl would buy a new Amiga with their credit card. It's not legal to charge a credit card until the product is shipped to the customer. Eyetech dosen't have a pool of money to get the boards built, the dealers don't have the money to pay for the orders until the credit cards are billed.

My hope is that AI will save the day by getting some contracts for enbedded systems. This will bring in the money to build the boards & get things rolling again. I believe this is what AI, Eyetech, & Hyperion have been trying to tell us. I also believe that Hyperion is working hard to get OS4 final out so all this can happen.

Last edited by sundown on 09-Jun-2005 at 12:14 AM.

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Interesting 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 8-Jun-2005 23:57:10
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

@Foody

Quote:
I have saved almost money now to buy A1, couple of 100 dollars missing, but from the sound of this I should no longer bother invest on an A1. That is the worst feared,


keep saving your coppers mate!

_________________
"The system no longer works " -- Young Anakin Skywalker

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Eyetech 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 9-Jun-2005 0:43:11
#14 ]
Eyetech
Joined: 26-Jul-2003
Posts: 50
From: Unknown

@sundown


Quote:
Eyetech dosen't have a pool of money to get the boards built, the dealers don't have the money to pay for the orders until the credit cards are billed.


You really have got completely the wrong end of the stick here.

We don't ever take advanced payments from dealers to fund board manufacture. All we ask is that they fax or email an image of their bank transfer instruction (or we run their credit card) immediately before we ship the boards to them. The boards are usually shipped out the same day. We do that because of past broken promises - we have been (and still are) waiting for over 18 months for one dealer to pay his bills!

As far as supply is concerned, yes we are currently out of stock awaiting the next shipment, for which we have mostly paid for on order placement some months ago.

The main reason for the delay has been the availability of cpus at the price IBM originally quoted. Unfortunately IBM are really not interested unless you are buying 100000+ cpu's per year (IMO they have become much harder to deal with since their PS3 & Xbox success), so to a certain extent for the (in their terms) trivial volumes that we currently need we have to take what they will give us and at a time that suits them. We keep being promised delivery, but keep having the delivery times extended.

We can always get cpu's at full retail prices from a distributor, but that would throw the economics of production right out of the window unless we made a big hike in the product price (which would clearly affect out sales volumes, hence production volumes, hence setup costs/board - see below).

In addition at these tiny manufacturing volumes we really need to make each order batch as big as possible - meaning that the production runs are well spaced out, and that we therefore have a risk of running out of boards if the next run gets delayed or sales are greater than expected (as has happened with the A1-C).

It is probably worth illustrating the importance of batch size as well. When we have a manufacturing run the average assembly facility takes a day to set up, a day to take down and can produce 5000 or more boards a day. Clearly the smaller the order the higher the production cost/board - for example if the set up and take down costs are $100000/run then thats $100/ board if we have 1000 made. On the other hand if we just get, say, 250 made the setup/take down costs add $400/ board (and before anyone starts quoting these numbers out of context they are just for illustration).

Ideally we want a steady stream of orders of 50,000/batch/2 months (say), which reduces the setup costs to a reasonable $2/board. But for this we need volume (niche) sales to industry as unfortunately there are not enough Amiga Enthusiasts left to buy this many.


So at the moment we are out of stock, we have mostly paid for the next batch and the manufacturer has everything lined up for production except the cpu's.
I will post here when we receive them.

Hope this helps a bit

Alan

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number6 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 9-Jun-2005 0:53:52
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10172
From: In the village

@Eyetech

You have done the community a GREAT service by posting this here.
A million thanks.

Best Wishes,
#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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glokraw 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 9-Jun-2005 1:09:48
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2004
Posts: 348
From: Unknown

@Eyetech

Would it be possible to research for example, the 20 largest
PPC cpu purchasers after apple/sony, and make a standing
offer to buy XXX numbers of chips at xxx price...due to the
possibility of a PPC chip customer changing plans, or needing
cashflow temporarily...some detective work might even network
you into some unforseen positive beneficial contacts...as well
as hopefully finding some excess, un-needed/unwanted chips...

thanx for posting here, come back often, ignore rabble-rousers,
and hope you make it to Ami-West (and a SanDiego sun-drenched
vacation, on the way home, or b4 a far-east junket!

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asymetrix 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 9-Jun-2005 2:24:21
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 804
From: United Kingdom

@glokraw

Enquiring to this company might give Eyetech some G3/G4s

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/pricelist.html

contact : vicki.burkhard@sonnettech.com



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ronaldst 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 9-Jun-2005 2:31:47
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2005
Posts: 495
From: Unknown

@asymetrix

Or Eyetech could ask Genesi for their leftover G3s.

_________________
- Ronald

All beer tastes bad.

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glokraw 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 9-Jun-2005 2:44:55
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2004
Posts: 348
From: Unknown

@Eyetech

I forgot to ask...Do you know the identity of
the infamous Mystery Platform?

If so, is it
a. way cool

b. kinda cool

c. a yawner

Thanx for responding, and yes, you are hereby
permitted to reveal all!

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Plaz 
Re: Hold On A Minute!
Posted on 9-Jun-2005 3:00:00
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1565
From: Atlanta

@Eyetech

Thanks for all the clarity.
I wonder with all of those variables what the next batch size might be.
Filling back-orders, then extra available boards. It must be nerve wracking
to do the financials.

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 09-Jun-2005 at 03:01 AM.

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