The best would be: Contact all who donated - and tell them to respond within a month or two. The money left after the period, should be shared among the active FireFox bounties at the end the two months - then those who donated still get somekind of FireFox for the money.

I think some donaters has left the Amiga and their money should not end in someones else pockets, but instead end in other active FireFox bounties.

_________________
Maintainer of www.bigbookofamigahardware.com

Quote:

their money should not end in someones else pockets

Yes, this thing must be handled much more transparently now than it has been in the past. After all, the money (and it's not a small sum!) involved here is from the community so the community deserves to be informed very clearly on what happens with the huge pot. So after informing *all* donors and waiting for their responses, there should be another update let's say after 4 weeks have passed. This update should make very clear how much has been paid back and how much is still in the pot. Then further decisions can be discussed.

The worst thing would be if the whole AmiZilla thing would slide into total oblivion now. As bitman said, it must be secured now that the money doesn't end up in someone else's pockets. So there should be regular status updates now to inform the community about the progress of the money pay back.

I'd suggest that on the donors list, DiscreetFX simply strikes out the names of all people who got their money back or transferred it somehow. This way we can get a nice overview of the current status of the bounty pay back. As I said, complete transparency is required now to rebuild the trust that has been destroyed by this very odd bounty cancellation.

Last edited by qwertz on 21-Nov-2009 at 12:53 PM.
Last edited by qwertz on 21-Nov-2009 at 12:52 PM.

I hope that DiscreteFX does not take some of the above comments the wrong way. I think that he/they have earned earned enough trust to be given the benefit of doubt here.

I also hope that DiscreteFX (and the mystery Netscape exec) learn to have thicker skins, because there will always be some people who speak with heated emotions, without thinking what the consequences may be. (It would seem a shame for all of us to suffer, because the words of an unrepresentative few.)


However, there are certain decisions which seem less than optimal (such as waiting for donators to contact them), and hopefully DiscreteFX can give such constructive criticism serious consideration, without letting all the other rubbish skew their decisions.

P.S. It's a pity the the MooBunny got mentioned at all, because that will just make them feel more important than they actually are. I don't bother with it at all, thankfully.

Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Nov-2009 at 02:32 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Nov-2009 at 02:22 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Thank DiscreetFX you have done the rigth thing, dont listen to the whiners. this bounty wasnt going nowhere for 6 years, there is a limit to everything. amigaos4.0 is geting a modern web browser, this is after all the legacy of amigaos and what count in the end.

I don't know why it's so hard for some to believe that after six years the guy just got tired and simply wanted his money back. He also had a few words to get off his chest. Who would I be to deny him that? He was very generous and waited a long time with a considerable amount of money tied up. No programmer was anywhere near completing AmiZilla so we want to do what's right. Christmas is next month and it probability is the best time to give donors their money back with interest so they can spend it on their families. Once the CD matures and is sent back I was going to put the $2000 that DiscreetFX donated into other Amiga bounties. But after the negativity and inquisitions I'll wait and see.

I hope everyone prefers the way we are handling things vs what others have done with your money in this community.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

Quote:

I don't know why it's so hard for some to believe that after six years the guy just got tired and simply wanted his money back.

I think this shoul dbe easy for everyone to believe. It's easier for me to not worry about it, and most of us, who gave small amounts. This guy gave a very large amount. I'm sure there are more lucrative investments that large amount could be living in. Though an executive may not miss that amount any more than I miss $20, who knows. I wish I was executive rich to see things from that point of view. :)

Amigabounty discloses refund potential, so people know what's up before they put money in. I don't think they'd change bounty definitions or rules without discussion and approval of donors first. Interested developers are given a chance to provide input to bounty definitions before posted, when someone is known or believed likely to be a candidate.

I've received my refund from DiscreteFX, including interest. More interest than I expected. I wouldn't have even asked for that interest if they hadn't mentioned the CD was closing out with interest earned... But since they mentioned it, I thought we all deserved some portion of it, and from what I've seen, that is being done. I'd previously donated to Timberwolf, and preferred to have this donation refunded, which I'll apply to another project.

Last edited by billt on 21-Nov-2009 at 04:46 PM.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

I don't know why it's so hard for some to believe that after six years the guy just got tired and simply wanted his money back

Thats not what people said they found hard to believe. It was the "Moo and a Bunny kills a Lizard" thing when you said you showed him Moo Bunny and that he keeps up on it enough to have gotten twisted/upset by the thread on DFX, the one Tedd (associated with DFX) was actively participating in and helping to extend over at Moo.

If it was just you saying a guy got tired after six years that would be really easy to believe actually. Also minus his $4200 the bounty would still be $6000+ strong BTW. I'm all for it ending mind you, but that confused folks too, and not surprisingly.

Quote:

He also had a few words to get off his chest.

Since he has been and still is anonymous it was unnecessary for you to choose to be his public voice. But since you made that choice you got responses to that. Thats bound to happen and fair to happen. And its highly odd IMO for someone who is anonymous to be offended about his character when no one know who he even is. Especially when it was the character of DFX, not the anonymous donor, that was being questioned at Moo.

Quote:

I was going to put the $2000 that DiscreetFX donated into other Amiga bounties. But after the negativity and inquisitions I'll wait and see.

Do people really need to hear about whether or not you will punish the entire community over upset from bad apples? Its not like we can all show up with pitchforks at Dr. Frankenstein's (Moo Bunny in this case) and make those folks go away for you. I'm sorry this Moo Bunny stuff has upset you, Tedd, and the former anonymous Netscape executive, etc. If I could go power off the damn server I would myself. But we can't. All we can offer is our sympathies.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 21-Nov-2009 at 08:48 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 21-Nov-2009 at 05:24 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 21-Nov-2009 at 05:21 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 21-Nov-2009 at 05:19 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@all

ChrisH wrote:
Quote:

I also hope that DiscreteFX (and the mystery Netscape exec) learn to have thicker skins, because there will always be some people who speak with heated emotions, without thinking what the consequences may be. (It would seem a shame for all of us to suffer, because the words of an unrepresentative few.)

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@qwertz

Quote:

So after informing *all* donors and waiting for their responses,

Without a doubt the right thing to do is for them to try to reach all the sponsors with a basic reasonable effort.

Quote:

I'd suggest that on the donors list, DiscreetFX simply strikes out the names of all people who got their money back or transferred it somehow. This way we can get a nice overview of the current status of the bounty pay back. As I said, complete transparency is required now to rebuild the trust that has been destroyed by this very odd bounty cancellation.

This sounds like asking way too much IMO. So long as they take an active role in trying to contact sponsors and say what will happen to any monies they can't return they've done the responsible thing in my book.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 21-Nov-2009 at 05:35 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Quote:

This sounds like asking way too much IMO.

I think it's not too much. I'm not asking that they update that donors list every day but striking out all returned funds once a week is not too much in my opinion. It's the only proper thing to do now. Make very clear what happens with that pot and not try to conceal anything by just letting time pass by and in a few months nobody will remember etc. That's not proper. The donors' list needs to be updated regularly now to show what has been refunded and what is still with DiscreetFX.

But so far they haven't even admitted that they will contact every single donator. No word on it from Bill so far.

This is ridiculous.

You cannot cancel a gift.

This is absurd and highly unethical.

Now that one person who did a bounty, cancelled his, this now opens up the opportunity for others to get their money back???

Who made this guys special? Either the money could be returned to anyone, at any time, or it cannot be.

If it can be returned to anyone, at any time, than nothing has changed at all, except for one donor is getting his money back.

This type of 'I'm a a secret" "I'm the leader" BS, is nonsense.

I'll say the bounty program, spurred other, successful bounty programs. Now its leading the way,again. - this time highlighting the issue with not making the rules very clear, from the start.

If the money is returnable, its returnable to anyone, and just because an early donor leaves, that has no impact on the project at all.

Mickey Mouse nonsense in the Amiga community, nothing new.

This guy is a total - clown - and if he reads rumors and got upset and took his toys and left - a bit of a loser too.

Completely unethical person - except he probably never existed. Noone who is totally anonymous can possibly be concerned about a rumor trashing his reputation.

Thats laughable.

Last edited by RobertDupuy on 21-Nov-2009 at 08:14 PM.
Last edited by RobertDupuy on 21-Nov-2009 at 08:13 PM.

@RobertDupuy

Quote:

This type of 'I'm a a secret" "I'm the leader" BS, is nonsense

Pretty much.

Quote:

Noone who is totally anonymous can possibly be concerned about a rumor trashing his reputation. Thats laughable.

I agree.

Quote:

and if he reads rumors and got upset and took his toys and left - a bit of a loser too. Completely unethical person - except he probably never existed.

If yet another company is playing games it would be a damn shame. We've suffered enough already. Since DFX has done some positive things many are naturally going to disagree with you. But this whole thing certainly is strange.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 21-Nov-2009 at 09:02 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

Quote:

This is ridiculous. You cannot cancel a gift.

I guess only imaginary persons can do this.

Last edited by qwertz on 21-Nov-2009 at 09:24 PM.

Why would 1 person withdrawing from the bounty cancel the bounty altogether?

Quote:

Why would 1 person withdrawing from the bounty cancel the bounty altogether?

Maybe because of a second, non virtual person who also had a large sum in that pot and didn't feel like paying this sum any longer now that Firefox is coming closer and closer.

Sure I could have kept AmiZilla going forever after the main contributor wanted to withdraw their funds. But does that make sense or is it the right thing to do? I felt bad when I was sold a $100 worthless Party Pack. I also felt bad when I was suckered again and sold a worthless $50 scam coupon. AmiZilla ended because it went on for too long with no progress. The CD is maturing soon and the main contributor no longer wants to participant. Why would I keep AmiZilla going?

I would not feel right doing that. And for those that think we don't contact donors, ever effort is made to contact AmiZilla donors unless they already contacted us first. AmiZilla's harshest critics are those that never believed in it anyway and never contributed even $1 to it. The dream of Firefox for Amiga OS lives on in Project Timberwolf.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

Quote:

Sure I could have kept AmiZilla going forever after the main contributor wanted to withdraw their funds.

That's not the issue here. What we're trying to tell you is that the idea of "withdrawing funds" is generally totally against the concept of bounties. Once you donate, you just can't withdraw funds because you feel like it. If everyone could just withdraw their donations, the whole bounty concept would be totally useless because bounty hunters could never be sure if they would really get the whole booty because funds could be withdrawn at any time. It's a ridiculous idea to be able to withdraw funds you have donated. Especially when it's $5k. I can also contribute $5k to Timberwolf and two weeks before the Frieden's are finished, I'm going to withdraw the funds because Timberwolf will appear anyway so they don't need my $5k. How would they like that I'm wondering? That's pretty much what happened here. The concept of withdrawal is just not part of the bounty game.

@qwertz

I too was caught off guard by the withdraw. Perhaps as some have said here I should have never let someone else handle the booty. I'm happy to admit that, no problem. I am also willing to admit the AmiZilla Guidelines were always kind of rough and could have been more clear. In the guidelines there is nothing about refunds and that was not the intention of AmiZilla. AmiZilla was a dream to bring Mozilla to the Amiga platform including Classic, AROS, Amiga OS 4.1 and MorphOS.

AmiZilla was the first Amiga based bounty system. Later bounties that were inspired by AmiZilla could learn from it's mistakes and do a better job. I would have liked to see AmiZilla succeed or end in a less jarring way. But I'm willing to work with the situation I have been handed off the best way I can.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

[quote]
When I get back the money I will reinvest it into an AROS bounty, when something Amigaish may remain, it must be open source
[/source]

I got my money back and transfered it to the OWB bounty for AROS

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

AmiZilla ended because it went on for too long with no progress.

If thats the reason that makes a lot of sense. You shot yourself in the foot though saying in the press release an anonymous guy ended it also because he was upset at rumors. It even went beyond that with this bit:

Anonymous Former Netscape Exec wrote (as per DiscreetFX):
Quote:

Many times I was going to increase my contribution to the bounty considerably but I did not because of rumor spreading and in-fighting. I advise everyone in the Amiga community to do more and talk less in the future.

The sour grapes is made very obvious. Your own page for Amizilla even declared it killed by "a Moo and a Bunny". There was also a horrible irony that such a long press release spoke of advice to "talk less" but did not follow that advice itself.

The bottom line is if its only (or primarily) for "it went on for too long with no progress" you did a very poor job at expressing that.

Quote:

The CD is maturing soon and the main contributor no longer wants to participant. Why would I keep AmiZilla going?

That contribution was the main one, but it was less than half of the bounty. Bringing up the CD as a reason is going to seem rather convenient considering its been rolled over before, considering you can get better rates on a high yield savings right now anyway, and again, because you yourself took this whole thing first in an entirely different direction about rumors and an unmoderated discussion board killing the bounty. Maybe try to learn something from this on how better to approach these things in the future. This was all oh so avoidable.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 22-Nov-2009 at 04:22 AM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200