>Can they really claim "exclusive rights" on the Amiga TM given that a non exclusive right to >the same TMs was given to someone else in a contract that predates the one with Hyperion? >Seems just silly to me.

Check the definitions section of the contract between Thendic and Amiga, Inc. Only trademarks in Appendix D are included. Further Marks can be got for licencing with agreement by Amiga, but in any case "Amiga Marks" was defined in the Definitions section of the contract as "AmigaDE related trademarks". So no
trademarks not related to AmigaDE are concerned.

Also the trademarks can only be used together with the product in question (AmigaDE) .

Everyone can check, the contract is appearently publicly available (check for the link in the other thread).

Steffen

Quote:

DaveP wrote: I think that is independent of this statement Bodie_CI5. This statement sayes to me that if any misleading statements are made in public by Genesi in such a way that Hyperion or Eyetech consider their rights infringed, there will be another law suit for us to follow, this time in the EU I would guess. It also ends some of the bootless speculation. Dave.

Yep, I understand. I just thought that it was heading that way because of the "enforce" clause in the statement above.

_________________

[never mind - later dudes!]

edit:

Does Hyperion have an official press release page on their website?

I can't find it!

_________________
Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

Whatever comes of this nonsense, one thing is for sure: It's costing our side (Amiga) and their side (MorphOS) a LOT of money that could definately be better spent getting each establishment up and running.

Nobody needs this bitterness, and it helps nobody. Genesi may call this a "win", but really neither of us has WON anything. All it serves to do is cripple both establishments. My opinion? STOP the arguing and the bitterness - you go your way and we'll go ours.

In a perfect world, eh?

Brian

Quote:

Also the trademarks can only be used together with the product in question (AmigaDE) .

The irony here is that if Genesi wants AmigaDE they better help AmigaInc. to stay afloat, because when AmigaInc. goes down (what I certainly do not hope, and neither that Genesi wants that) as some usual suspects on amiga.org and ann are wishing again, this would be a rather pyrrhic victory for Genesi as then there would be no AmigaDE on Pegasos so no Amiga(tm) for them. But they had won a case...

Either way, Hyperion and thus OS4 is save here, no matter what, so bring on the pre-Release, this AmigaOne is waiting..

Ciao, Alex

_________________
machine : AmigaOne G3SE / AmigaOne XE / Teron CX / Teron PX
clock : 800 MHz
cpu : 7455, alt

as we've all learned from watching the Amiga, Inc saga, the statement we heard above is absolutely meaningless.

It doesn't mean they are going to fight anything in court, this is what is called, merely someone making a statement that obligates them to nothing, but if they are lucky will scare someone. but all the parties here are too sophisticated for that.

most likely the above statement was just to please the crowd at amigaworld and nothing else.

Whatever......

@RobertDupuy:

Let's see a proper statement from both AmigaInc and Genesi, then we'll go from there.

sophisticated ...



/shoe

> Besides, it's clear that Genesi can use those TMs only in conjuntion with AmigaDE, and as of now there's no AmigaDE for MOS.

I believe this is only a side-issue. The interesting question is about whether and by whom any contracts between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion are enforcable, and if and how Hyperion can act as a legal substitute for an U.S. startup that is defenseless even in its own homeland. Individuals from Hyperion repeatedly claimed that "AmigaOS is not going to be ported to the Pegasos". Interesting, really, so Amiga Inc. is legally disjunct from the name and property already? What is this "Ask Fleecy" etc. about then?

_________________
Eagerly awaiting the X1000

@Oppressor

Edited by DaveP - interpreted as a flame.

Quote:

The interesting question is about whether and by whom any contracts between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion are enforcable, and if and how Hyperion can act as a legal substitute for an U.S. startup that is defenseless even in its own homeland.

If the rights have been transferred, as is claimed, then why do they need to. They merely need to defend THEIR rights and they can do that in the EU. The "legal substitute" comment is a misnomer in this instance, as Hyperion would be defending two things:

1. The rights that have been transferred to them.

2. Their claim to those rights.

Quote:

Individuals from Hyperion repeatedly claimed that "AmigaOS is not going to be ported to the Pegasos".

I think we all know and remember that this is AmigaOS4. Amiga Inc referred to AmigaDE as an "Operating Environment". Whatever TAO referrs to Intent as is not relevant, they certainly do not have the right to call AmigaDE, Intent or anything else an "AmigaOS".

Quote:

Interesting, really, so Amiga Inc. is legally disjunct from the name and property already? What is this "Ask Fleecy" etc. about then?

How do you flow from the first sentence in your paragraph to these two questions?

edited by DaveP - Flame in response to something interpreted as a flame

Why does Hyperion preemptively call for an "Official Statement" and claim that they would be defending their legal properties when Amiga Inc. is under fire? If the DE and OS4 would be so clearly unrelated to each other, then this statement would be pointless.

This reads like "we have nothing to do with it, but we will defend ourselves with teeth and claws", or in different words, whistling in the dark. Even MagicSN expressed his view that only DE trademarks would be affected, so why then raise a fuss about it.

Can you see the problem now? I say the weak term in the OS4 equation is how much impact the contracts between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. can stand. Or conversely, when Amiga Inc. is not holder of any rights, why then is Fleecy the right guy to ask about the future of OS4? I'd say there is a slight contradiction here, and it's everything but far-fetched to push on this.

I care for OS4, and moreover for the people who believe in its future. Hyperion seem to know about the dangers also.

_________________
Eagerly awaiting the X1000

Quote:

Why does Hyperion preemptively call for an "Official Statement"

They made an official statement, they might also be calling for an official statement from Amiga Inc but that is not what this news item is about. You must have misread - this news item IS an official statement from Hyperion about what they consider their rights to be.

Quote:

Can you see the problem now? I say the weak term in the OS4 equation is how much impact the contracts between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. can stand. Or conversely, when Amiga Inc. is not holder of any rights, why then is Fleecy the right guy to ask about the future of OS4? I'd say there is a slight contradiction here, and it's everything but far-fetched to push on this.

Fleecy is the figurehead in this case, him answering Q+A does NOT impact in any way the legal rights granted by a contract. Weak or not.

The contract will be tested in court, if and when some party takes some action that Hyperion considers that it infringes it.

Seems plain to me, I don't understand what has got you confused.

@ DaveP

> Edited by DaveP - interpreted as a flame.

I didn't interprete it as a flame, that's just your interpretation. You see, this can quickly end up in recursion. Have you read "1984" lately, btw? ;)

Regarding confusion, no, I didn't misread. My dictionary told me that "call for" had this side-meaning of making pompous declarations [figuratively]. If not, sorry for that. However that's exactly what Hyperion made in my opinion, and either needlessly (i.e. in confusion), or in an attempt to reassure us.

It's not only Genesi that could harm the OS4 project, btw. There are many more parties not entirely happy with this situation, disgruntled and beneficial people alike. Since many have originally invested in Amiga Inc. and are now waiting for delivery from Hyperion (like myself), it would be only fair to demand more insight to their legal relationship, especially if Amiga Inc. has transferred names and IP. What names and IPs exactly?

So, to clarify this for you, that's what I'm calling a much more "interesting question" than this aforementioned "side-issue" of DE contracts.

_________________
Eagerly awaiting the X1000

Every three months or so; we are subjected to another round of-

where some statement is made in an attempt to cause
Uncertainty
Nervousness
Confusion
Leading to
Estrangement.
Do we really need to listen to the troubling call of those blue butterflies?

_________________
-vortexau, who's A1 XE-G4 remains at half-RAM !
A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

Quote:

Why does Hyperion preemptively call for an "Official Statement" and claim that they would be defending their legal properties when Amiga Inc. is under fire? If the DE and OS4 would be so clearly unrelated to each other, then this statement would be pointless.

Genesi/BillBuck has a habit of saying he has rights to things that he doesn't.
Because of what has just happened, hyperion are warning genesi/bill buck not to over step the mark as to what TM's he can use.

_________________
PowerTower A1200, 060/80Mhz, Heatsink & Fan, 66MBRam, PowerFlyerGold, 50xCDRomdrive, 250Zip, 2.1

@ falemagn

"Anyway, I don't see why you people should be upset at Genesi for this... it's the contract that states this, and Amiga Inc. signed that contract, so..."

Do you really think that if AInc. had known the situation in antecipation they would have signed the contract? Thendic at the time was not a direct competitor with an OS API compatible with AmigaOS. Then again judjing by the importance AInc. was giving to AmigaOS at the time, despite some users requests for it's continuation through 3rd parties, maybe they would have signed it anyway....

_________________

José

Quote:

Why does Hyperion preemptively call for an "Official Statement" and claim that they would be defending their legal properties when Amiga Inc. is under fire? If the DE and OS4 would be so clearly unrelated to each other, then this statement would be pointless.

It was clearly unrelated until "BBRV" opened their mouth:

http://www.flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/98012.shtml

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

Quote:

Thendic at the time was not a direct competitor with an OS API compatible with AmigaOS.

And for the record, classic AmigaOS was declared dead. AmigaDE was the only AmigaOS of the time.

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