neko: yeah maybe you should just stop talking yourself?

Last edited by Toaks on 05-Apr-2005 at 10:21 AM.

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@Orgin

Thanks much! Very nice, and yes the site was coded entirely by hand.

I hope the changes I quickly made helped some.

Jamie

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and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

@Orgin

Thanks again. I really appreciate the help.

I have the file OK, and will look through it very soon,
right now I have been up for 22 hours so far working
on this release/announcement. -Must crash soon.

Jamie

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BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

@Toaks

Thanks for the support as always!

I have not put the donate button up yet because it
looked like I had to pick a static amount to donate
and I wanted people to decide for themselves.

Maybe with the PHP samples from Orgin I will
not be stuck using a pregenerated PayPal button.

Jamie

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jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

Quote:

I'm guessing the site html was hand coded

In what way this have anything to do with a quality? I'm doing all my HTML mark-up from hand.

Last edited by opi on 05-Apr-2005 at 11:04 AM.

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Heres a very quick example I did to show how the site could be improved

Last edited by DaveyD on 05-Apr-2005 at 01:50 PM.
Last edited by DaveyD on 05-Apr-2005 at 01:46 PM.

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daveyd:bloody brilliant!

now lets see what jamie thinks.

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One more

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@ALL

OK, there seems to be a lot of confusion about what, or rather
why, the Development Subsciption is worth consideration.

Let me try to address some of this:

First, I know the web site sucks, I'm sorry about that, my bad.
I have made some quick fixes to try and make it more bare-able
and (with help from some of you) will make it both functional and
presentable. I know the web site, and lack of screen shots or more
detailed information has added to the confusion, but let me try to
clearify a couple of points now.

Quote:

2. You are essentially selling information ("how to code for the amiga"), but you're being very vague about it. How do I know that what I'd be buying from you I won't get free in the next OS4 SDK release?

OK, what I am offering here is the chance to help fund the development
of real software, graphical environments designed specifically to aid
in the development process on OS4. For lack of a better term an IDE
(Integrated Development Environment).

This means easy to use and cooperative reference tool, code editor,
and make environment ("build" button, shell output), just to list the basics.
It also means a ReAction targeted GUI builder, and much much more.

Software that might not get built for OS4 unless financial support is available
now. You can not wait for some "big" company with deep pockets to deliver
this type of software for the Amiga, and Hyperion has an OS and then games
to finish (not that I am speaking for them mind you), they do not have the time
to build on the command line programming level that is GCC. This leaves
either the hopeful port of an Open Source IDE by some generous (and skilled)
person with both time and money on their hands, or a small company that can
withstand the market with a minimal flow of income and low overhead long enough
to produce the required software. Keep in mind also that an Open Source port
of an existing IDE suffers from two main problems, one it will be generic and
not focused around the Amiga way of working, and two there is nothing to sell after
the initial effort is put in (which could easily be months or work.) Beyond this
further development would be driven by the Linux camps and not the Amiga,
leaving you again with just "me too" software that lacks the Amiga "edge".

Quote:

So let me get this straight.... You're offerring us your dev environment.......(which consists of a dir structure)

The "dir structure" described on the web site is closer to an example of the
output of what the AVD system will eventually produced automatically
(if desired). It is in fact a hand written source template in C provided to give
new subscribers to the Plan, a working model to start writing for AmigaOS4.
The AVD Template source handles what I would call the "basics" of setting
up an Amiga application. Setting up memory, opening libs, parsing command
line arguments and Tooltypes, creating a commodity broker and setting up
hotkeys, creating menus, opening and providing basic Window management,
handling the event loop, and finally cleaning up everything correctly on exit.
Add to that a proper Makefile and a file organization setup for portability,
and what you get is a clean application that is easy to build upon.

The AVD Template is provided to new subscribers simply because I feel
it is a very useful starting point for the beginner, and a good time saver
for the professional. It is not directly part of the AVD project itself.

Quote:

You're not that guy that was on a month ago looking for ideas are you?

Yes, and, no.

Yes, I was the guy who just decided to step away from a 10 year long
career as a Sr. Software Engineer to write Amiga software fulltime.

Yes, I did post a question to the Amiga community asking what everyone
would like (and would be willing to pay for) over anything else.

No, I was not looking for ideas on what to write and just now decided I
would write development tools for Amiga. I have been working on this
development suite idea (on Amigas) since 1990. There was never a
question in my mind what I would write or how, I simply asked to see
if people were ready for it now and what I found out was that they needed
to piece the basic functionality together first, and could not wait the
year or so for the complete suite to be ready.

I have if fact focused my career around building foundation level tools.
My source code for my last corporate project for example was priced
at around $1.8 Million dollars. (Corporate = I wrote it, they own it)
That represents a four year investment on a solo project. I know very
well what is involved to make this project a reality as well.

Quote:

Spell out all the cool stuff that's included in the $10 subscription, and tell me why I'd have to be insane not to send you my cash!

(Some of this was already covered above, but here is a quick overview)

* Subscribers recieve access to in-development versions of the AVD suite
and related tools.

* Subscribers also have a direct voice to contribute comments, suggestions,
etc. and can cast a "vote" on what piece has priority over another.

* Subscribers get use of needed software pieces today, while also benefiting
from easy payments toward the full software suite in the future.

Why subscribe today rather than in a few months, or ever?

One reason is because you don't have to wait before starting to learn
to use the development system to write and put out your own titles,
until it is completely finished.

Another is the easy payment plan earns you credit toward the
the full release of the final product (at it's various Release Points)
Consider these examples:

Project Completes Ontime
Lets take for example that a Release Point for a "current technology
level" IDE for AmigaOS4 is set to sell publicly for $120.00 (example
in US dollars of course) and is expected to take 12 months to completely
debug and rollout.

If a subscriber joins at the start of this project (in this case right now),
paying $10 a month, and receiving roughly monthly software updates
(which only run for 60 days at a time), and the Release point is met
ontime, they will have paid the projected amount for the software and
been able to use it, and provide feedback for the entire 12 months.

Paid $120.00 for full version ($10 a month X 12 months)

If at the same time another subscriber joins 4 months into the project,
they will have the same level of in-development software to work with
like everyone else (again set to run for 60 days per update). However,
when the project is completed on time they will recieve the fully licensed
version of the software after paying up the difference in the sale price.

Paid $80.00 ($10 X 8 months) + $40.00 for the full version ($120.00 total)

Project Completes Early
If the project is completely ahead of schedule, then the number of months
it actually took to complete will equal the purchase price for the subscribers,
while everyone else will still pay the full sale price.

So, with the example above, if the project hit it's Release Point at 9 months
instead of 12, then the first subscriber will have paid a total of $90.00 over
9 months for full access to the software, over those 9 months.

Paid $90 ($10 X 9 months) for the release version

The second subscriber, who started 4 months later, would have had the
in-development versions for only 5 months and will have to pay the difference
up to the other subscribers level. In other words:

Paid $50 ($10 X 5 months) + $40 = $90 for the release version.

Everyone else who purchases the release version directly (did not subscribe)
will pay the full sale price of $120.00 for the same software, regardless of how
long it took to develop.

Project Completes Late
In the event that a project is unable to meet it's Release Point, subscribers
who have paid up through the projected sale price, will not be required*
to make any further payments on that project, and are entitled to the full
release version at that point (when it is ready). If the release is still not ready
after the "paid in full" subscriber's working version expires (e.g. in 60 days)
then their current versions with be updated again to keep it running until
the release actually ships.

So again, once our first subscriber has reached the sale price in contributions
they will not own any additional payments on that project.

Paid $10 X 12 months = $120.00 for the full version (payment stops, release
ships when it is ready.)

In the case of our second subscriber (who started 4 months later), they will
continue as normal until they too reach the full sale price or have to pay the
difference in whatever they are short:

Paid $10 X 12 month = $120 (Started 4 months late, and project ships 4 months
Late)

Month to Month Terms
You are not required to subscribe for a given number of months or for the
projected duration of the project. You may choose to cancel at any time
and rejoin again later. Every $10 payment you make against the project
will be fully credited toward your purchase of the project (in this case AVD).

I will post this information on the web site as well as soon as possible.

Jamie

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BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

@DaveyD

Great! This is the stuff!

Jamie, take him out for dinner to a place which has spicey food. Deal in the pocket I would say.

Coder

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@ Neko

Quote:

The website sucks ####, and I still have no ####ing idea what $10 a month is paying for despite the rambling press release and 30pt fonts.

Meow...! hehehe

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@ Neko

Quote:

The website sucks ####, and I still have no ####ing idea what $10 a month is paying for despite the rambling press release and 30pt fonts.

Meow...! hehehe

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jamie: lets hope that cleared up some questions.

also it seems daveyd is very anxious to help out with the website

cheers

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@DaveyD

Very nice looking work indeed,

please email me with some more details...

Thanks.

Also, the logo in the corner is great as well.

Is that an original creation, or clip art from somewhere?

[Oh, I had to edit this twice now. still have not slept from yesterday...]

Last edited by JamieKrueger on 05-Apr-2005 at 05:51 PM.
Last edited by JamieKrueger on 05-Apr-2005 at 05:50 PM.

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BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

@all

I had short conversation with jamiegrueger, main points were making applications, saving development time, ie. money ...

I got feel, that this man knows, what he is doing, so have a go, jamie...

Last edited by mlehto on 05-Apr-2005 at 11:10 PM.

Regardless of website status, I'd LOVE an IDE. Let me say that again.. I'd LOVE an IDE. Coming from an MS / Visual Studio world (day job) it makes the transition less painful and more productive from the start.

Okey, I updated. Inspired by DaveyD's 'theme':

http://orgin.org/bitbybit

Code will not be available without DaveyD's permission.

/Björn

Hmmm it's not quite right, I'll build an html template tonight and you can incorporate that into the code

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Don't think I have the time, I just had some time over when my connection kept getting dropped last night. If my connection stays up this evening I plan to fix some amigaworld.net stuff.

/Björn

YES...WE NEED AN IDE and this is why i support it.

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