Quote:

Btw doesn't anyone know how it stands in comparence to todays most used software?

Well, it's probably the most advanced MIDI sequencer for the Amiga. Still, the user-friendliness factor is something that could definitely be improved, and I personally prefer Inutilis Horny in this respect (a nice, easy-to-understand, ReAction-based interface).

Comparison with PC/Mac software is rather pointless, as the Amiga lacks many things that PC/Mac software programmers may take for granted (like the VST protocol, for example, which allows for extending any music app with virtual instruments and fx plugins). Due to this fact you cannot meaningfully compare BnP to even the most slimmed-down version of Cubase (the Cubasis VST).

This, however, in no way belittles what Alfred has done so far. Many thanks for your efforts Alfred! Today you have definitely made the bunch of BnP followers happy.

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IMHO it should has a gui like audio evolution ...a coherency of gui in this case should help to work

Please no! Speaking of coherency, I'd rather have both programs conform to the standard system look.

Last edited by Trixie on 09-Nov-2005 at 11:17 AM.

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@Trixie

Almost every PC/Mac audio program has a fancy look. It simply sells. There is no way that AE will go back to a simple Reaction look with standard sliders and knobs, that would be plain ugly. The timeline window must be custom anyway, so I assume we are talking about the mixing desk.

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Quote:

Btw doesn't anyone know how it stands in comparence to todays most used software? What's good in B&P and what's lacking?

B&P is primarily a multi-instrument midi-squencer. It is not meant to be a cool midi-player, or non-linear multi-track recorder. And for what it is, compared to others in it's market, it is still a very good program.

Mostly, people who use this are going to those writing mutli-track scores without having to hire in instrumentals to do live recordings. These writers don't use built in software synth, which usually sounds like crap anyway, but have external midi sound banks with real sounding instruments. So for this kind of usage, B&P is on par with most offerings on other systems. The one thing I never got around to trying or seeing if B&P could do, was printing of musical notation scores once recorded.

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Hi Davy,

Has AE got a facelift lately? I was talking about the version with a non-changeable Times font, gadtools-style gadgets and a custom-made toolbar.

What I had in mind while commenting on the look was, rather, adopting Mason-like imagery and, where possible, RA gadgets (because that's why RA superseded gadtools). No offence was intended!

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Would you prefer Scala or MED to look boring as well ? Back then, many developers tried to overcome the limitations of the underdeveloped AmigaOS/Workbench and in most cases they HAD to extend the interface in order to meet the application's requirements. Creative people didn't mind. No wonder more people remember it than "gadtools-friendly" Dr.T's KCS (Music-X, despite its boring looks, was a hit nevertheless).

B&P is easily one of the most intuitive and powerful programs ever written for Amiga and I am excited it keeps being developed. Perhaps more people could help ?

Quote:

software synth, which usually sounds like crap anyway

Why's that? In my home studio, I have dozens of software synths and boy, most of them IMHO sound better than anything Yamaha or Roland produced in the past ten years! Even in the freeware domain you can find gems like Crystal, Triangle II or ReZ. Sure, there's a lot of thin-sounding cr*p around but that's not a problem of software synthesis in general. If it was, companies like Novation or Access wouldn't invest millions in the development of VST instruments, would they?

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@Trixie
Don't worry, I didn't take it as offence.

It has undergone many facelifts in the years. I'm referring to this:
http://www.audio-evolution.com/AE4/AEImages/grab1.png
The image buttons in the tool bar are actually made by Mason...

Changing the timeline and mixer window to Reaction will not make much of a difference since most of the gadgets are image-based anyway. The 'normal' windows (all kinds of settings windows) must indeed be changed someday to Reaction, but I'll only do that when there is a decent GUI-builder and preferably decent documentation on Reaction (to which there is none). Also, it's a lot of work for only 25 sold copies.

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Audio Evolution
http://www.audio-evolution.com

@Trixie

If you find any good VSTi's with source code, let me know.

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Audio Evolution
http://www.audio-evolution.com

Quote:

These writers don't use built in software synth, which usually sounds like crap anyway, but have external midi sound banks with real sounding instruments

Depands on soft synth technology e.g. Yamaha SoftXG 100** (Wintel) with genuine Yamaha sample bank and software synth technology. Such applications make effective use of the PPC G4 processor.

Software synth is generally an OS infrastructure issue i.e. one could redesign GMPlay (if the source code is available) as a virtual midi device with Sound Font loader (e.g. +100MB sample bank).

Quote:

B&P is primarily a multi-instrument midi-squencer. It is not meant to be a cool midi-player, or non-linear multi-track recorder. And for what it is, compared to others in it's market, it is still a very good program.

Note that, mainstream products are combinations of multi-instrument midi-sequencer and non-linear multi-audio track recorder...

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.Quote:

The one thing I never got around to trying or seeing if B&P could do, was printing of musical notation scores once recorded.

One could use Deluxe Music 2 (WB2.x GUI style). It’s too bad EA didn’t release the source code...

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who cares what it can do?? it looks crap, like something cheap crap you get on a shareware cd that are included on a crappy pc magazine. sure it will be good for the one that used it before and remember it from the old days... but for godsake its time to wake up its soon 2006 and no the 1990's... go look here for a real good music app -> http://www.propellerheads.se/ and click on the link that says "Reason" and click on "Close-up on Reason" and you will see what professional looking music app look like today. this is what music intressted people are using in 2005...

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who cares what it can do??

That's a rather silly statement. If you buy or use something, you ofcourse care what it can do. I don't understand what all the GUI fuss is about. Alfred has done excellent work on updating B&P through the years and porting it now to OS4 is a great thing. I'm sure people will help him get the GUI more up-to-date. What matters is that it can do a lot of things and is expandable through ptools etc.

I wouldn't use Reason at all if I would be interested in recording MIDI with my synthesizers and arranging and editing MIDI tracks. Not everybody needs virtual instruments. Best music was made without them...

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Audio Evolution
http://www.audio-evolution.com

Quote:

Define "most" and the alternative offerings

I don't mean people working everyday with computers but those who have to use them but aren't at ease with computers.

I know there are not many alternatives, but who needs all the features of OFFICE or OO?
So a nice small word processor with a simple GUI would be most than enough. For writing letters Wordpad is more than adequate for beginners. Abiword is a small great word processor too.

I notice this everyday with students and adults in my courses who don't like the GUI's of Office liek progs because they are overloaded with features!

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Quote:

If you find any good VSTi's with source code, let me know.

Unfortunately, don't know of any but I guess that some of the Smart Electronix guys (www.smartelectronix.com) might be kind enough and provide some sources, algorithms or at least good tips.

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@d0c:

eh? Do you know what Reason costs too? It's also probably not being coded by freetime developers...

@d0c
Quote:

... it looks crap...

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Did you also notice we have another OS4 developer joining the ranks and producing software? Alfred has already released ULarn on os4depot. He's made significant progress on B&P already as well. Hopefully he'll produce even more software. What do you think about that aspect of the news?

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@Matt:

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Holy hell that's ugly

So's your kitten.

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Robert
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> who cares what it can do?

More people than care what you think, i'd bet.

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Robert
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What amazed me the most when I tried B'n'P for the first time is the guitar transcription support. For example I typed in some guitar notes by hand into OctaMED Soundstudio to hear what it sounds like. Then I imported the converted MIDI file into B'n'P and it displayed me the guitar transcription again. And it was almost like in the original notes, i.e. it tries to find out what is the best way to play the notes without breaking your fingers!

Thanks Alfred for porting this fantastic program!

Alex.

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