Quote:

It makes you yet another legal and/or financial stumbling block to anyone who wants to get OS4 ported.

No, it doesn't. How often do I have to repeat: Hyperion has a license to use ExecSG in OS4. So if somebody wants OS4 supported on their hardware, the license OS4. They don't license individual components, JUST OS4.

Simple, huh ? No red tape with others involved. The contract between us and Hyperion allows Hyperion to use ExecSG for OS4. And it does NOT IN ANY WAY restrict the hardware platform.

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

Quote:

Well that's what I was wondering. Why would you have a buyback clause to continue development in house, if you were not getting the source.

For the tenth time, Hyperion owns and a buyback clause will transfer ownership back to Amiga, a great deal of the source code is transferred, like Intuition, Graphics, and whatever else there is.

[B]Some[/b] components, like ExecSG, are not source code licenses, so they are not affected by this.

The same was true for OS 3.9 (as pointed out before) with components like for example Reaction, which was NEVER owned by Amiga or H&P either.

Quote:

This is all making less and less sense, so I'm just going to stay out of it.

No it isn't, you just don't know what you are talking about. You don't have ANY idea about the contracts in place, and obviously you will not believe me when I say that your supposed problems are all fancied and do not exist.

However, I think it's a good idea to stay out of it.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

Quote:

The worrisome thing is that a single product and it's sources belongs to a plethora of individuals instead of one company.

Do you have any idea about how ownership of MacOS X or Windows XP looks like? I guess not.

Or OS 3.5 and OS 3.9 for the matter. You are imagining problems that simply do not exist.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

Quote:

why did you decide to code OS4

Because I wanted AmigaOS to continue it's existance, and I wasn't thrilled by AmigaDE. And believe me, it wasn't an easy decision to embark on it, since when I started with ExecSG, I had never written any line of PPC assembly code, and didn'T even know the CPU.

Quote:

Was it overwhelming to write a OS from scratch?

We never wrote an OS... Hans-Jörg and me just wrote a replacement for Exec.

Quote:

How did you start? by looking at old WB 3.x code ?

No, by re-implementing the API of Exec.

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

Quote:

My concern is that if Amiga go ahead with OS5 and Hyperion continue OS4 with no natural migration between the two, we are gonna end up with the MorphOS vs AmigaOS4 wars but this time it will be split 3 ways.

And this differs from the old situation of AmigaOS vs. AmigaDE.... how ?

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

Quote:

I still don't like it (the source code thing)...

Wasn't it the same thing with AmigaDE? Intent being licensed (binary not source code)? I didn't see anyone voice any concerns that TAO might suddenly withdraw the license, essentailly leaving AmgiaDE without a "kernel".

This is common practice, in the Amiga market and elsewhere, and was never apparently any reason for alarm. I really really wonder why people see it as such all of a sudden.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

Quote:

Oh come on. Did you buy OS3.1 ? Do you know that ARexx was a third party product that has been licensed ? Did you buy OS3.5 ? Do you know that the fonts, Reaction, CrossDOS etc were licensed products Fact is ALMOST NO VERSION of AmigaOS have ever been without licensed components. So why the frell is that suddenly a big problem for you ? Oh, and did you buy Windows XP ? Guess how many parts of Windows XP are licensed, not only as code, but as patent licenses, too.

These are not critical components of the OS though are they. ExecSG is critical to AOS4, essentially its heart, so not exactly something that you could just pull out and replace with something else overnight. This is just one of many other possible components that could be deemed critical to the OS that could be at risk. You don't have that with Windows XP.

Basically, this is the first time that such a critrical part (ExecSG) of the Amiga OS does not actually belong (sources and IP included, not just the right to use the binaries) to the company that actually owns the rights to the Amiga name. This is new, and justified cause for concern IMHO, and to my knowledge, not something we've seen on most commercal OSes over the past 25 years.

Last edited by elatour on 21-Sep-2006 at 01:27 PM.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

Quote:

It does so because you want it to. You are looking to misinterpret things to your liking. You have absolutely no idea how the contract looks, it might be that it grants Hyperion special rights in case we want to pull out of it.

Yes Rogue, I'm deliberately trying to misinterpret things. That's the way I like it. That's why I've spent the last 4 years building the Amiga Users Group in our two state area, paid for out of my own pocket meeting expenses for the group to sponsor showings of OS4 and get as many people interested in it as possible. Yeah, I'm trying to undermine everything you guys have done.

You know, it would never have gotten to the point it had if you and Joerg had not came into that thread boasting about "your code" that nobody had the rights to. The two of you set the wrong message when you kept stressing it was your code. That's what got everyone concerned. So just get angry all you want.

Quote:

No, it doesn't. How often do I have to repeat: Hyperion has a license to use ExecSG in OS4. So if somebody wants OS4 supported on their hardware, the license OS4. They don't license individual components, JUST OS4.

Ah, yes. So if one were to LICENSE OS4, one would get ExecSG support, from Hyperion. OK.

However, apparently if one goes one better, and BUYS all of Hyperion's rights and interest in OS4, one ends up without ExecSG support, So says your borther over in the other thread:

Quote:

Amiga does not have access to OS 4 sources, they cannot have legal access to e.g. ExecSG since that is never covered by any buyback option since it doesn't belong to Hyperion.

Do you guys REALLY not understand why some people are not entirely convinced this is all kosher?

@EntilZha,
Quote:

Simple, huh ? No red tape with others involved. The contract between us and Hyperion allows Hyperion to use ExecSG for OS4. And it does NOT IN ANY WAY restrict the hardware platform.

This is at odds with some of Rogue's earlier statements in another thread. Of course, he was deliberately vague and obstinate, so perhaps some people took it that a THIRD party besides AInc. and Hyperion would have to dealt with besides Hyperion. I guess that's the kind of misconceptions you get though when you don't just come out and say something straight.

Aside from that, Rogue has made it clear that whoever offers the most money is not the deciding factor in who can use ExecSG. If this is true, then that means you two control access to a vital piece of OS4 based on hubris.

I don't see how having Hyperion holding half of the OS while you two hold onto a critical piece for yourselves is supposed to make anyone comfortable. Hyperion isn't the kind of company that has a visible revenue stream, and typically those sort of companies are volatile. If something happens to Hyperion and someone else decides to pick up the pieces, having to deal with the kernel-owners may be enough to prevent them from wanting to continue with OS4 - if your pride even allows you to consider them as a licensee. One has to wonder if this hasn't *already* been a stumbling block. If you two have a falling out with Hyperion and decide to break whatever licensing deal you have with them, OS4 is again screwed. There are a lot of ways things like this could go badly for OS4 as a whole with this situation.

Then there is the whole consideration of why do you own the kernel when Amiga Inc. likely contracted for a WHOLE OS? I know you can't comment, but I think I'm beginning to see what the legal issues are between Hyperion and AInc.

Finally, who ultimately benefits from you two owning the kernel?

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@Rogue and EntilZha

I believe the concerns that elatour and herewegoagain raise are very valid and have
been presented in a very civilized and well thought-out manner. I really don't understand
why this is being viewed as an attack. Believe or not , they are your supporters and
very much have made that fact clear.

@Rogue
However, after reading your responses to their posts, that might possibly change. The
comment has been made by you (or someone else representing hyperion) that everyone
needs to stop trying to read in between the lines and misinterpreting every thing said. That
advice should work both ways, so please don't do the same with Herewegoagain's
comments. I have been an Amiga user since 1990 and very much want to see it continue
to develop and so do many others around here regardless of what our concerns are.

C Snyder

Last edited by bigsnyder on 21-Sep-2006 at 07:20 PM.

_________________
"Space Mountain might be the oldest ride in the park, but it still has one of the longest lines!" - Ric Flair

Quote:

Yes, the community split even more, now is MorphOS vs AmigaOS4 vs AmigaOS5 vs AROS.Anybody more can contribute to split even more and make their own AmigaOS clone?

Honestly, what the heck does that mean?

How does using one flavor of amiga prevent you from using another?

Do you think my WinUAE will get pissed off when I try out my new AROS?
Or my Peg - is it planning an insurrection?
And is my Amiga2000 crying in the corner because I haven't gotten it a new HD???

I really doubt it!

come on, if your mind is open there IS no "split". Just more opportunity.

I wouldn't be threatened by OS5. no one has seen it and people should be concentrating on getting HW for OS4 to run on. I HAVE seen OS4 and it's quite nice. It deserves to be seen by many more people.

_________________
"In terms of worship, I worship the God of Irony.
That's the only God that I know exists." Terry Gilliam

"Wasn't it the same thing with AmigaDE? Intent being licensed (binary not source code)? I didn't see anyone voice any concerns that TAO might suddenly withdraw the license, essentailly leaving AmgiaDE without a "kernel"."

While I don't agree (or disagree) with his POV this is not a good comparison, simply because most of the Amiga community cares about AmigaOS and doesn't give a ratt's ass about DE. AInc. is only now interested in AOS because they saw they can't get developers from the Amiga community in other way.

_________________

José

@Herewegoagain

Quote:

You know, it would never have gotten to the point it had if you and Joerg had not came into that thread boasting about "your code" that nobody had the rights to.

That's just one of your misinterpretions as well.

>Poster: jorkany Date: 21-Sep-2006 20:00:11
>Finally, who ultimately benefits from you two owning the kernel?

All Amiga OS4 users!

Rememeber that the past years have been extreamely tough and I don't think that the OS4 project would have survived if some people didn't sacrifice allot of their sparetime. If this licensing deal made the situation better for them then I think it's great... it makes me just more confident that these guys will stick with what they are doing and believing in.

Hyperion and all other OS4 developers/testers, keep up the good work!

/Xter

Quote:

They won the World Cup may be they'll win the race to bring new hardware out first too

Have you seen this (funny): Zidane headbutt outrage

_________________
Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

@Thread

I just hope that things work out in everyones interest.

Rogue, Entzilla, Hyperion and A Inc all should know what they're doing - let's hope the players and their lawyers can all work it all out.

At least they have until the hardware starts shipping to finalise things with the OS4.

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