@DaveP
I wouldn't be so melodramatic, they are offering the chance (they are not forcing anyone) to get the system earlier and at a discounted price, to expert AOS users that are willing to make detailed reports on weird behaviors they find (also receiving a fix to the problem to test soon after).
Some people might want to go for it, many will not and wait for the fully boxed computer from Amigakit.

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SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

Dax

Quote:

I wouldn't be so melodramatic, they are offering the chance (they are not forcing anyone) to get the system earlier and at a discounted price, to expert AOS users that are willing to make detailed reports on weird behaviors they find (also receiving a fix to the problem to test soon after). Some people might want to go for it, many will not and wait for the fully boxed computer from Amigakit.

Wheres the melodrama old son?

I expect one or two do get all upset that I've tread on a precious meme or three here, but I don't quite get where the "melodrama" bit comes into it.

Breaking it down:

1. I've not claimed they've forced anyone into anything, or want ot.
2. I'm not disagreeing that they want bug reports in return for a bit of money off.
3. I'm not disagreeing that some will want it and some wont

In fact, I've not said anything on those three points. You wouldn't be basing your reply on what ChrisH misread into everything would you, its kind of suspiciously looking like you didn't actually read my post

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thats why I keep logs.

Maybe I've read to many in a row

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SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

So, developers will pay 750 EUR and get the motherboard? Or is it only misunderstanding on my side?

Round 1000 EUR for complete computer would be not that bad.

@pavlor
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a 750 euro deposit to attract the most dedicated people.

deposit != full price

and more important:

deposit != buying

It's more like renting a car and having to pay some extra which you will get back when you return the car unharmed.

Either that or it has been worded badly (would not be a 1st either).

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- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

In this case it looks like a deposit towards the final balance payable on (presumably) shipping.

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thats why I keep logs.

@DaveP

Also know as

YAPPS

(Yet Another PrePay Scheme)

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- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

We should have launched prepaypal.com back in 2001.

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thats why I keep logs.

@DaveP

Apart from the fact that you apparently have far too much time to waste, I can assure you that the AmigaOne Early Bird experience was quite an eye-opener.

This offer is intended for people who are actually interested in buying the board and have additional skills which are required.

I can assure you that we have already more applications than boards.

But it is ofcourse more fun to be negative and spread FUD.

Quite frankly, I would have expected better from you.

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@Kronos

It is not a pre-order scheme because you can get a full refund AT ANY TIME prior to the hardware being shipped to you.

I myself was burned by countless Amiga pre-orders scams (Phase 5 to mention but one) and this is NOT how A-EON or Hyperion does business.

In its hstory of 10 years + in the Amiga market, Hyperion has NEVER asked for paid pre-orders.

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Too bad I'm currently unemployed, that makes me quite conservative about expending my money and working for free. Let's see if I get a job as soon as I estimate and can at least go for the first retail machines .

Dear Ben

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Apart from the fact that you apparently have far too much time to waste

Its Sunday. A day of rest. A day of not taking the world too seriously nor life. In fact, I put in a good 6 hours work today and 12 yesterday. On a given day I put in around 10 during the week. Thank you for your concern about my personal work/life balance but it is misplaced and more than a mite patronising.

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, I can assure you that the AmigaOne Early Bird experience was quite an eye-opener.

I can assure you that I am less ignorant of this than you'd like to pretend.

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This offer is intended for people who are actually interested in buying the board and have additional skills which are required. I can assure you that we have already more applications than boards.

That I don't doubt. However, if you actually read my post rather than relying on hearsay and spin (mailing list drivel again huh?) you might point out that I'm talking about :

1. Your quality control filter being impossible to police.

2. That if you were to apply your quality control to achieve an objective of having, well, quality testers then you would likely end up with ten, and that would include Rigo.

3. That this time you should learn the lessons and do a bit of strict test planning and test management rather than doing what happenned in the Early Bird Special.

But that assumes you haven't learned the lessons of said, which you claim to have done.

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But it is ofcourse more fun to be negative and spread FUD.

You must let me know sometime, I've never tried.

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Quite frankly, I would have expected better from you.

Conversely, I expected exactly this of you.

Last edited by DaveP on 30-May-2010 at 04:09 PM.

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thats why I keep logs.

@DaveP

The QA of the betatesters is not impossible at all.

For starters, we have already have a large list of dedicated AmigaOS betatesters whom we are very familiar with.

Secondly, there is the fact that people who actually develop software for AmigaOS 4.x are not hard to identify.

Thirdly, there is a contract involved and there is a concept called "legally binding obligations". A contract can be terminated if the parties do not respect their obligations.

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The QA of the betatesters is not impossible at all.

You won't be able to police this list effectively before shipping.

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For starters, we have already have a large list of dedicated AmigaOS betatesters whom we are very familiar with. Secondly, there is the fact that people who actually develop software for AmigaOS 4.x are not hard to identify.

Then why not just send the offer to them? Then the number of remaining boards could have been trumpeted in public.

Quote:

Thirdly, there is a contract involved and there is a concept called "legally binding obligations". A contract can be terminated if the parties do not respect their obligations.

And we are back to my joke about your phone calls once people get started. The point here is that a contract can be terminated if the parties do not respect their obligations.

That has already occurred at that point.

Lets take the straightforward case:

Oh, whoops, did you just leak the uber secret chip? Did you just leak the fact its going to be August rather than July to WiiAmigaNina? I'll terminate your contract, return the board please.

Barn. Door. Bolted. Horse.

Now the less straightfoward case:

An Amigan who doesn't step up to some performance metric (unpublished), you tell them off on the beta ML, they get upset and they counter-claim they are mismanaged. So long as you get your house in order and all that then there will be no problem, I'm sure you'll get people clocking in and clocking out their hours whether they find bugs or not and you'll be able to tell who the slackers and idiots are.

Or, maybe I'm not. How do you police it? How do you know when you are being unfair?

Lets say there is a user called Thelgicman. They get their board, they try and set it up and fail. Maybe they blow something up. Dunno. An expert like Rigo has to be called in to help. Do you "fire" them then? Do they get sneered at for being unable to sort out their own problems and told, hey, you aren't an end user go figure it out yourself? Does their contract get terminated? Do they then feel ashamed like they have misled you?

In either case, you are applying the filter, you are selecting likely candidates, you are more than likely drawing up "the contract" and only an idiot would sign it if it involved items covering personal performance without having it independently verified.

What about when Thelgicman has a problem downloading the latest beta and unpacking it? What about when they make a newbie mistake and post a bug that someone posted ages ago without searching?

What about when its you guys at fault for not providing appropriate test planning, strategy and management of the programme?

What does termination mean in this context? "Oh, Ben screwed up, so everyone give their boards back?" You know THATS not going to happen, so whats the penalty clauses on you guys or is the onus all on the beta testers to perform?

I'm curious why anyone would considering a contract or signing up to a programme of which they do not know the full ramifications nor implications for their personal life. No matter what you do, IMO, people are going to see this as a voluntary endeavour.

In my mind, if you want only effective testers/developers to join in, then as you say the existing beta list minus the rocks gathering moss plus some of the more active interested developers. People who you want but don't get, consider a bounty program. Heck, even I'd donate a few quid to get guys like Orgin, JAHC and Rigo boards.

Plus there is the fall out where you tell people they aren't "Da Right Stuff". Did you think about that PR boner before embarking on this?

Last edited by DaveP on 30-May-2010 at 04:38 PM.
Last edited by DaveP on 30-May-2010 at 04:36 PM.

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thats why I keep logs.

@Ben

Offcourse it's a preorder-scheme as one would have to order NOW and get the board later (doh).

And offcourse it's also a prepay-schmeme (those are the bad ones ) if there is more time between paying(the deposit) and delievering than the whats normal for mail-order.

Everyone who ever did such a prepay-scheme (Amiga or not) made it 100% clear that that money would be in some sort of save account, that there is now way it's gonna get lost etc etc. Well till the companies went titsup that is

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- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@umisef 

Quote:

what are the implications of not being considered an end user?

A normal end user can generally give away,lend,sell, throw away,loose,take apart and void the warranty or let someone "Steal" something.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 30-May-2010 at 05:06 PM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@HyperionMP

Don't bother going into discussion with these guys, they are only here to hurt the AOS platform.

Thank you for your devotion to AmigaOS, whoever you are

Last edited by Hondo on 30-May-2010 at 05:17 PM.

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On Planet Boing Trevor is God

I would love to be a betatester and get the X1000 as early as possible

BUT, i wont apply.. simply because I know I dont have the time to do propper
bugtesting.. and anyone who concider join such a team should have just that.
Time to make an effort !!

So while I wait for the X1000 to get out, I just play with my AmigaONE XE.

I will buy the X1000 when it's in the shop... july, august, septhember, october, november or even december... I can wait, everybody can wait..

Have a good summer, betatesting.. or not

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I myself was burned by countless Amiga pre-orders scams (Phase 5 to mention but one)

So given the Phase5 experience, what assurances can you provide that AT ANY TIME the money will actually be there for a full refund?

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In its hstory of 10 years + in the Amiga market, Hyperion has NEVER asked for paid pre-orders.

Uh, considering that this is for an A-Eon product, I would assume that the money goes to A-Eon, rather than Hyperion. Am I missing something?

Also, as far as I recall, in their 7 years of serving the Amiga market prior to the Cyberstorm G3/G4 project, Phase5 had NEVER asked for down-payments or pre-orders, either.

Then they did, and despite assurances that the money would be held in escrow in a notary account, it instead disappeared in the subsequent bankruptcy.
So far, A-Eon has not even made the assurances Phase5 had made, let alone anything exceeding Phase5's obviously meaningless promises.


(Oh, and customers who bought the early AmigaOne machines from Eyetech certainly paid for Hyperion's OS4 a long time before they received it; I believe it was also detailed during the court case that Hyperion received their OS4 OEM payments from Eyetech considerably before OS4 for those machines was completed.)

Quote:

(Oh, and customers who bought the early AmigaOne machines from Eyetech certainly paid for Hyperion's OS4 a long time before they received it; I believe it was also detailed during the court case that Hyperion received their OS4 OEM payments from Eyetech considerably before OS4 for those machines was completed.)

Yes, ok, but they didn't ASK us for it:

Quote:

In its hstory of 10 years + in the Amiga market, Hyperion has NEVER asked for paid pre-orders.

And I'd not have begrudged them a penny, as one of those people who bought at the time, if they had asked if the money could be released to them from Eyetech.

Last edited by DaveP on 30-May-2010 at 06:00 PM.

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A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Thats why I keep logs.